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Mitchell Robinson found his Man Strength
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foosballnick
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8/30/2021  2:02 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
https://www.persources.com/top-30-nba-centers-2020-2021-preseason-rankings/

I just wonder why knicks fans rate their players 10x higher than the rest of the basketball world

Your willing to give him money base on what you think/hoping he can become


Now, on to the top 20 NBA centers for the 2020-2021 season.
20. Mitchell Robinson – New York Knicks
Mitchell is a decent big man that has continued to improve ever year since he has been in the NBA. He may have a promising future, he’s just not there yet. However, Knicks fans believing Mitchell is a top big man is probably why the Knicks have been irrelevant for years.

Is he a top three player on a championship team? Hell no. He’s a decent big man in very limited minutes.[/quote]

Keep digging the hole you've dug for yourself even deeper. The ranking commentary you provided is by a guy who calls himself "The Great TPR".....LOL. Further - his hard hitting analysis is that the Knicks were irrelevant for years because of their fans beliefs in players. Double LOL.

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newyorknewyork
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8/30/2021  2:12 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Nalod wrote:1248 measures IQ. Thats pure comedy.

Berman is the only writer that mentioned Robinson having a low on court IQ. Berman is a bit of a negative nellie. Like 1248.

I think people use the concept of basketball IQ with fundamental skills interchangeably. I don't really think they are the same. Though I understand the overlap.

Prior to this past season, there was a strong argument that Robinson lacked certain fundamental skills (falling for ball fakes) resulting in a relatively high rate of personal fouls.

But in context, IQ doesn't generally mean fundamental skills so much as some innate intellectual capacity to understand. A kid that cannot do multivariable regressions yet doesn't have a low IQ, they just lack that skill set prior to training.

I think the confusion here is that he doesn't have a low bb IQ, he lacked the formalized training in certain fundamental skills based on his skipping college and the failures of the the Knicks developmental coaching staff up and until this year. You see the coaching staff re-building him from the legs up and forcing him to play fundamental basketball the correct way.

If i said he couldn't improve on his IQ, that would be negative. Saying he currently has a low BBQ is not being negative

JR smith has has a low basketball IQ, LBJ has a very High basketball IQ. Having a high IQ means you have been doing your HOMEWORK, studying opposing players habits,Teams habits.

Having a HIGH IQ off the court is all about making the right decisions for yourself and your family, putting yourself in a better position for the future, I think he could have done a much better job at that if he stayed in school.

Your grown man at 23, your not some 17 yr old trying to figure it out, Great players are really good at 20 yrs old.

SMH. Honestly this is all just a bunch of blather. Mitch is one of 500 people in a world of 7.5 Billion people who is currently playing in the highest basketball league in the world. Further, he has been able to play at a level to stay in the NBA for 3 years and achieved a level good enough to be an NBA Starting Center (one of 30 in the world). For anyone to think that he doesn't have any type of Basketball acumen nor does not do any homework or put in the time to study opposing players - especially under a coach like Thibs - is really a bunch of Bullsh1t. Everyone develops at their own pace in life and I'm thinking at 23, most of us (Mitch included) are still working towards our potential. By NBA standards, Mitch is not yet among the "Greats". However not all great players are great at 20 years old. For instance, all you have to do is look on the current roster for an example to another starter and see a player who exponentially expanded his game at 26.

As to High IQ off the court, perhaps you can explain what makes you an expert on the matter? What did you do personally to make the right decision at 17, 20 and 23 years old to put yourself in a better position for you and your family in the future? The streets are littered with people who wasted their talents. Yet Mitch is making $1.8 Million at 23. He made decisions at 17 - 19 years old that would effect his future - a future that landed him in the NBA. What you think might have happened on the matter is irrelevant - as he made it to the NBA and is a player who is starting (on a playoff team). If he had stayed/played in college - there is really no way to know what the future would hold for him. Further - he's set himself and his family up for a significant raise going into his next contract (barring any major injury). To date he's not had any off the court issues. It's laughable that you bring up JR Smith as a comparison - a guy who was responsible for his friend's death at 23 years old.

If Thibs is good with the kid - as a fan, so am I.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/8/2/16083402/mitchell-robinson-western-kentucky-transfer-nba-draft

Maybe if you read this, and think about the 6 agents his already had and fired, you will come to grips with his awful decision making


Quickly is a perfect example, had he not stayed a 2nd yr in college he would have surely been a 2nd round pick and less skill full.

Mitch just went to his dorm room packed up sht and left without telling a single person he was out, just to go practice in an empty gym in dallas.

He reacts without thinking and that sht translated to the court.

I use JR as an example of player who makes BONEHEAD decisions...reacts without thinking

You are adding statements to Mitch's decision to leave WKU that weren't in that article.

Article says that WKU's hiring of Robinson's Godfather, Shammond Williams led to Robinson a 5 star recruit and #8 ranked prospect in 2017 committing to WKU. On its face, it sounds like an 18 year old kid being manipulated by family ties to get a coaching job for his godfather. After Shammond Williams gets sacked, Robinson appears to de-enroll and look at other schools. This seems like a moment of frustration from his Godfather getting fired. But, he didn't get good advice because he would need a waiver from NCAA to play that season. So, he tries to re-enroll with WKU. At some point, he leaves college to train with Anthony Davis' trainer. This series of facts is the reason he becomes available to the Knicks in the 2nd round.

Quickley staying in a program like Kentucky is not the same as Robinson staying in a program at Western Kentucky.

Second, firing agents is not a poor reflection on the player. He could fire 6 more and I would not care so long as he re-signs here. I have no documented support for this theory, but my gut is that Rich Paul convinced Robinson he was bringing Anthony Davis to the Knicks. Davis re-signs with the Lakers on December 3, 2020, Robinson fires Paul on December 7, 2020 and says he fired Paul for personal reasons. The timing was interesting for me.

My problem with your analysis 1248 is that you are drawing too much conclusion from too little information with what seems to be a perceived agenda to discredit Robinson. If he has made any mistakes, they have been in the Knicks' favor -- nothing to our detriment. Worst thing he has done that I recall is miss a flight and post and delete a tweet when he was frustrated.

I see nothing but upside in Mitchell Robinson. Might be my favorite player on the Knicks.

Dude I like Mitch, and even want them to resign him on a very cheap short term deal (6 mill 2yrs team option), at least until he proves himself.

The Center position is just not as important as it used to be.

You don't think any over the cap team would give him the 9.5MM MLE. Not sure what you are waiting for him to prove. His advanced stats are quite good even though the money stats (Pts Rebounds) don't jump off the page. I'd be delighted to give him 4 years 52mm (13mm per) if he would sign that today.

This is how scout's view Mitch going into last season

And I 100% agree
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c
https://www.persources.com/top-30-nba-centers-2020-2021-preseason-rankings/

I just wonder why knicks fans rate their players 10x higher than the rest of the basketball world

Your willing to give him money base on what you think/hoping he can become


Now, on to the top 20 NBA centers for the 2020-2021 season.
20. Mitchell Robinson – New York Knicks
Mitchell is a decent big man that has continued to improve ever year since he has been in the NBA. He may have a promising future, he’s just not there yet. However, Knicks fans believing Mitchell is a top big man is probably why the Knicks have been irrelevant for years.

Is he a top three player on a championship team? Hell no. He’s a decent big man in very limited minutes.[/quote]

Id probably take Mitch over Tristan and Drummond right now but that's just a side bar.

I would say the main thing to take away from that is other than Ayton(23) & Allen(23). Mitch is tied for the 3rd youngest player and among the fewest years of experience out of the players named in that top 20.

He also missed college and practically came out from high school. Him reaching the point he is at right now is more so off of pure talent. Out of these centers he probably has had some of the weakest guard play to feed off of throughout his career. Not to mention coaching with Fiz.

Mitch going into his now 4th season will now have the strongest G play he has played with in his career. There would be no way he would sign a 2 year 6mil contract as it wouldn't be worth it. He wouldn't be risking much by not signing that. The question is do the Knicks risk him having a monster year with so many things in place for him to have one. Then have to pay top dollar. I mean Jarrett Allen just got paid 5yrs 100million for 13pts-10rebs-1.6blks and potential. Or do they try hard to lock him up before hand, with the risk that comes with that if he doesn't pan out? Would Mitch even be willing to take the security now? Or will he gamble on himself seeing the potential situation he is in?

Saying Mitch has to prove it first is logical. But understand that it would potentially come with a hefty price tag if he does. But at the same time, finding defensive rim running athletic bigs aren't that rare to obtain. Them also being able to shoot is the rare part.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Nalod
Posts: 68482
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8/30/2021  2:12 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Nalod wrote:1248 measures IQ. Thats pure comedy.

Berman is the only writer that mentioned Robinson having a low on court IQ. Berman is a bit of a negative nellie. Like 1248.

I think people use the concept of basketball IQ with fundamental skills interchangeably. I don't really think they are the same. Though I understand the overlap.

Prior to this past season, there was a strong argument that Robinson lacked certain fundamental skills (falling for ball fakes) resulting in a relatively high rate of personal fouls.

But in context, IQ doesn't generally mean fundamental skills so much as some innate intellectual capacity to understand. A kid that cannot do multivariable regressions yet doesn't have a low IQ, they just lack that skill set prior to training.

I think the confusion here is that he doesn't have a low bb IQ, he lacked the formalized training in certain fundamental skills based on his skipping college and the failures of the the Knicks developmental coaching staff up and until this year. You see the coaching staff re-building him from the legs up and forcing him to play fundamental basketball the correct way.

If i said he couldn't improve on his IQ, that would be negative. Saying he currently has a low BBQ is not being negative

JR smith has has a low basketball IQ, LBJ has a very High basketball IQ. Having a high IQ means you have been doing your HOMEWORK, studying opposing players habits,Teams habits.

Having a HIGH IQ off the court is all about making the right decisions for yourself and your family, putting yourself in a better position for the future, I think he could have done a much better job at that if he stayed in school.

Your grown man at 23, your not some 17 yr old trying to figure it out, Great players are really good at 20 yrs old.

SMH. Honestly this is all just a bunch of blather. Mitch is one of 500 people in a world of 7.5 Billion people who is currently playing in the highest basketball league in the world. Further, he has been able to play at a level to stay in the NBA for 3 years and achieved a level good enough to be an NBA Starting Center (one of 30 in the world). For anyone to think that he doesn't have any type of Basketball acumen nor does not do any homework or put in the time to study opposing players - especially under a coach like Thibs - is really a bunch of Bullsh1t. Everyone develops at their own pace in life and I'm thinking at 23, most of us (Mitch included) are still working towards our potential. By NBA standards, Mitch is not yet among the "Greats". However not all great players are great at 20 years old. For instance, all you have to do is look on the current roster for an example to another starter and see a player who exponentially expanded his game at 26.

As to High IQ off the court, perhaps you can explain what makes you an expert on the matter? What did you do personally to make the right decision at 17, 20 and 23 years old to put yourself in a better position for you and your family in the future? The streets are littered with people who wasted their talents. Yet Mitch is making $1.8 Million at 23. He made decisions at 17 - 19 years old that would effect his future - a future that landed him in the NBA. What you think might have happened on the matter is irrelevant - as he made it to the NBA and is a player who is starting (on a playoff team). If he had stayed/played in college - there is really no way to know what the future would hold for him. Further - he's set himself and his family up for a significant raise going into his next contract (barring any major injury). To date he's not had any off the court issues. It's laughable that you bring up JR Smith as a comparison - a guy who was responsible for his friend's death at 23 years old.

If Thibs is good with the kid - as a fan, so am I.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/8/2/16083402/mitchell-robinson-western-kentucky-transfer-nba-draft

Maybe if you read this, and think about the 6 agents his already had and fired, you will come to grips with his awful decision making


Quickly is a perfect example, had he not stayed a 2nd yr in college he would have surely been a 2nd round pick and less skill full.

Mitch just went to his dorm room packed up sht and left without telling a single person he was out, just to go practice in an empty gym in dallas.

He reacts without thinking and that sht translated to the court.

I use JR as an example of player who makes BONEHEAD decisions...reacts without thinking

You are adding statements to Mitch's decision to leave WKU that weren't in that article.

Article says that WKU's hiring of Robinson's Godfather, Shammond Williams led to Robinson a 5 star recruit and #8 ranked prospect in 2017 committing to WKU. On its face, it sounds like an 18 year old kid being manipulated by family ties to get a coaching job for his godfather. After Shammond Williams gets sacked, Robinson appears to de-enroll and look at other schools. This seems like a moment of frustration from his Godfather getting fired. But, he didn't get good advice because he would need a waiver from NCAA to play that season. So, he tries to re-enroll with WKU. At some point, he leaves college to train with Anthony Davis' trainer. This series of facts is the reason he becomes available to the Knicks in the 2nd round.

Quickley staying in a program like Kentucky is not the same as Robinson staying in a program at Western Kentucky.

Second, firing agents is not a poor reflection on the player. He could fire 6 more and I would not care so long as he re-signs here. I have no documented support for this theory, but my gut is that Rich Paul convinced Robinson he was bringing Anthony Davis to the Knicks. Davis re-signs with the Lakers on December 3, 2020, Robinson fires Paul on December 7, 2020 and says he fired Paul for personal reasons. The timing was interesting for me.

My problem with your analysis 1248 is that you are drawing too much conclusion from too little information with what seems to be a perceived agenda to discredit Robinson. If he has made any mistakes, they have been in the Knicks' favor -- nothing to our detriment. Worst thing he has done that I recall is miss a flight and post and delete a tweet when he was frustrated.

I see nothing but upside in Mitchell Robinson. Might be my favorite player on the Knicks.

You know... sometimes it's alright to admit that we don't know hahaha We know 1248 is stuck on the idea of a team needing a stretch center to win. He'll pin the JFK assassination on Mitch if it's supports that narrative. No idea why Mitch left his agents. I know one of them was hit with allegations of misrepresenting his client list. Another agent is being sued for giving Robinson gifts and poaching him away from another agent. Perhaps Mitch left Paul after hearing from Noel about his experiences? 🤷

He’d blame JFK on Frank if he could but we all know Frank long range shooting is low %!!! LOL
He’d blame Phil to be the shooter in the book depository but Phil would be reading the books.
He’d blame Mills but dudes with business degrees from Princeton don’t shoot people.
He’d blame Perry, but he was working in orlando at the time.
He’d blame Fiz, but he was staring at his wifes “grassy Knoll”.
Was Janis in Dallas then???? Fuck Janis and the Lincoln convertable he rode in on!

knicks1248
Posts: 42059
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8/30/2021  2:25 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Nalod wrote:1248 measures IQ. Thats pure comedy.

Berman is the only writer that mentioned Robinson having a low on court IQ. Berman is a bit of a negative nellie. Like 1248.

I think people use the concept of basketball IQ with fundamental skills interchangeably. I don't really think they are the same. Though I understand the overlap.

Prior to this past season, there was a strong argument that Robinson lacked certain fundamental skills (falling for ball fakes) resulting in a relatively high rate of personal fouls.

But in context, IQ doesn't generally mean fundamental skills so much as some innate intellectual capacity to understand. A kid that cannot do multivariable regressions yet doesn't have a low IQ, they just lack that skill set prior to training.

I think the confusion here is that he doesn't have a low bb IQ, he lacked the formalized training in certain fundamental skills based on his skipping college and the failures of the the Knicks developmental coaching staff up and until this year. You see the coaching staff re-building him from the legs up and forcing him to play fundamental basketball the correct way.

If i said he couldn't improve on his IQ, that would be negative. Saying he currently has a low BBQ is not being negative

JR smith has has a low basketball IQ, LBJ has a very High basketball IQ. Having a high IQ means you have been doing your HOMEWORK, studying opposing players habits,Teams habits.

Having a HIGH IQ off the court is all about making the right decisions for yourself and your family, putting yourself in a better position for the future, I think he could have done a much better job at that if he stayed in school.

Your grown man at 23, your not some 17 yr old trying to figure it out, Great players are really good at 20 yrs old.

SMH. Honestly this is all just a bunch of blather. Mitch is one of 500 people in a world of 7.5 Billion people who is currently playing in the highest basketball league in the world. Further, he has been able to play at a level to stay in the NBA for 3 years and achieved a level good enough to be an NBA Starting Center (one of 30 in the world). For anyone to think that he doesn't have any type of Basketball acumen nor does not do any homework or put in the time to study opposing players - especially under a coach like Thibs - is really a bunch of Bullsh1t. Everyone develops at their own pace in life and I'm thinking at 23, most of us (Mitch included) are still working towards our potential. By NBA standards, Mitch is not yet among the "Greats". However not all great players are great at 20 years old. For instance, all you have to do is look on the current roster for an example to another starter and see a player who exponentially expanded his game at 26.

As to High IQ off the court, perhaps you can explain what makes you an expert on the matter? What did you do personally to make the right decision at 17, 20 and 23 years old to put yourself in a better position for you and your family in the future? The streets are littered with people who wasted their talents. Yet Mitch is making $1.8 Million at 23. He made decisions at 17 - 19 years old that would effect his future - a future that landed him in the NBA. What you think might have happened on the matter is irrelevant - as he made it to the NBA and is a player who is starting (on a playoff team). If he had stayed/played in college - there is really no way to know what the future would hold for him. Further - he's set himself and his family up for a significant raise going into his next contract (barring any major injury). To date he's not had any off the court issues. It's laughable that you bring up JR Smith as a comparison - a guy who was responsible for his friend's death at 23 years old.

If Thibs is good with the kid - as a fan, so am I.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/8/2/16083402/mitchell-robinson-western-kentucky-transfer-nba-draft

Maybe if you read this, and think about the 6 agents his already had and fired, you will come to grips with his awful decision making


Quickly is a perfect example, had he not stayed a 2nd yr in college he would have surely been a 2nd round pick and less skill full.

Mitch just went to his dorm room packed up sht and left without telling a single person he was out, just to go practice in an empty gym in dallas.

He reacts without thinking and that sht translated to the court.

I use JR as an example of player who makes BONEHEAD decisions...reacts without thinking

You are adding statements to Mitch's decision to leave WKU that weren't in that article.

Article says that WKU's hiring of Robinson's Godfather, Shammond Williams led to Robinson a 5 star recruit and #8 ranked prospect in 2017 committing to WKU. On its face, it sounds like an 18 year old kid being manipulated by family ties to get a coaching job for his godfather. After Shammond Williams gets sacked, Robinson appears to de-enroll and look at other schools. This seems like a moment of frustration from his Godfather getting fired. But, he didn't get good advice because he would need a waiver from NCAA to play that season. So, he tries to re-enroll with WKU. At some point, he leaves college to train with Anthony Davis' trainer. This series of facts is the reason he becomes available to the Knicks in the 2nd round.

Quickley staying in a program like Kentucky is not the same as Robinson staying in a program at Western Kentucky.

Second, firing agents is not a poor reflection on the player. He could fire 6 more and I would not care so long as he re-signs here. I have no documented support for this theory, but my gut is that Rich Paul convinced Robinson he was bringing Anthony Davis to the Knicks. Davis re-signs with the Lakers on December 3, 2020, Robinson fires Paul on December 7, 2020 and says he fired Paul for personal reasons. The timing was interesting for me.

My problem with your analysis 1248 is that you are drawing too much conclusion from too little information with what seems to be a perceived agenda to discredit Robinson. If he has made any mistakes, they have been in the Knicks' favor -- nothing to our detriment. Worst thing he has done that I recall is miss a flight and post and delete a tweet when he was frustrated.

I see nothing but upside in Mitchell Robinson. Might be my favorite player on the Knicks.

Dude I like Mitch, and even want them to resign him on a very cheap short term deal (6 mill 2yrs team option), at least until he proves himself.

The Center position is just not as important as it used to be.

You don't think any over the cap team would give him the 9.5MM MLE. Not sure what you are waiting for him to prove. His advanced stats are quite good even though the money stats (Pts Rebounds) don't jump off the page. I'd be delighted to give him 4 years 52mm (13mm per) if he would sign that today.

This is how scout's view Mitch going into last season

And I 100% agree
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c
https://www.persources.com/top-30-nba-centers-2020-2021-preseason-rankings/

I just wonder why knicks fans rate their players 10x higher than the rest of the basketball world

Your willing to give him money base on what you think/hoping he can become


Now, on to the top 20 NBA centers for the 2020-2021 season.
20. Mitchell Robinson – New York Knicks
Mitchell is a decent big man that has continued to improve ever year since he has been in the NBA. He may have a promising future, he’s just not there yet. However, Knicks fans believing Mitchell is a top big man is probably why the Knicks have been irrelevant for years.

Is he a top three player on a championship team? Hell no. He’s a decent big man in very limited minutes.[/quote]

Id probably take Mitch over Tristan and Drummond right now but that's just a side bar.

I would say the main thing to take away from that is other than Ayton(23) & Allen(23). Mitch is tied for the 3rd youngest player and among the fewest years of experience out of the players named in that top 20.

He also missed college and practically came out from high school. Him reaching the point he is at right now is more so off of pure talent. Out of these centers he probably has had some of the weakest guard play to feed off of throughout his career. Not to mention coaching with Fiz.

Mitch going into his now 4th season will now have the strongest G play he has played with in his career. There would be no way he would sign a 2 year 6mil contract as it wouldn't be worth it. He wouldn't be risking much by not signing that. The question is do the Knicks risk him having a monster year with so many things in place for him to have one. Then have to pay top dollar. I mean Jarrett Allen just got paid 5yrs 100million for 13pts-10rebs-1.6blks and potential. Or do they try hard to lock him up before hand, with the risk that comes with that if he doesn't pan out? Would Mitch even be willing to take the security now? Or will he gamble on himself seeing the potential situation he is in?

Saying Mitch has to prove it first is logical. But understand that it would potentially come with a hefty price tag if he does. But at the same time, finding defensive rim running athletic bigs aren't that rare to obtain. Them also being able to shoot is the rare part.

I'm not worried so much about the contract, there isn't a single player on this roster that is overpaid, and the FO has yet to signed any one to a 4yr contract without a 4th yr team option.

ES
Nalod
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8/30/2021  4:01 PM
Heard or read that the knicks have offered 4 yrs at 44mil.
That and Warren Commission clearing Frank of being in Dallas when JFK was shot.

If I was Mitch's agent I'd highly encourage him to take it. Why? After 6 its likely there is a 7th and he not gonna get paid!
If I was him he should look for a two year deal at 11 per with a player option for 3rd year. Gives him two years to prove himself and leverage to opt out.
Knicks might tell him no.
Lets be real, just because he extends does not mean he don't get traded at some point. In fact, If he does not extend I could see we trade him to a team that will meet his price.
Face it, we not saving our cap space for Lavine!

EwingsGlass
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8/30/2021  5:19 PM
http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.

This is the Randle.
BigDaddyG
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8/30/2021  5:33 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.


You can see the limitations of PER when Kanter, Whiteside and Drummond are in top 19.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
knicks1248
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8/30/2021  5:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2021  5:55 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.


LOL he's been injured every yr he's been in the league

injury prone

66 games
61 games
31 games

total of 158 games (55 starts) less than 5 attempted jump shots

How can you call KP (who played 186 in his first 3 seasons) injury prone, then give every excuse for Mitch..

Stop being so Bias dude....No one is Giving Mitch the kind of Money your talking.

More importantly we finally had a winning season without him, so how much of a impact did he really have.

ES
EwingsGlass
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8/30/2021  6:22 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.


LOL he's been injured every yr he's been in the league

injury prone

66 games
61 games
31 games

total of 158 games (55 starts) less than 5 attempted jump shots

How can you call KP (who played 186 in his first 3 seasons) injury prone, then give every excuse for Mitch..

Stop being so Bias dude....No one is Giving Mitch the kind of Money your talking.

More importantly we finally had a winning season without him, so how much of a impact did he really have.

1) He is not a jump shooter.
2) Re: KP - Its the seasons after the first three people are talking his injuries
3) I am biased in favor of Mitchell Robinson. Time will tell whether I am right or wrong on his contract. I bet his number is closer to my 13 than your 6.
4) I've shown on countless occasions what he does well. Noel's existence as a replacement speaks to the Knicks having depth, not to Mitchell failing to be impactful. Stats show that Mitch is better than Noel (who got 9.24m per year)

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/28/mitchell-robinson-injury-history-updates/

This is a reasonable summary of Mitchell Robinson's injuries. Concussion, broken hand, broken foot don't really resemble the "injury prone" label we see in bigger players where their knees and or backs tend to have problems. Foot injuries can be concerning based on the weight coming down, so I won't minimize that, but the "impact" injuries are not as worrisome to me. There are no repeat occurrences here.

This is the Randle.
Marv
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8/30/2021  6:44 PM
Comparisons of mitch to capela, d jordan & rudy:

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/08/26/ny-knicks-comparing-mitchell-robinson-3-star-centers/amp/

knicks1248
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8/30/2021  7:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/30/2021  7:46 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.


LOL he's been injured every yr he's been in the league

injury prone

66 games
61 games
31 games

total of 158 games (55 starts) less than 5 attempted jump shots

How can you call KP (who played 186 in his first 3 seasons) injury prone, then give every excuse for Mitch..

Stop being so Bias dude....No one is Giving Mitch the kind of Money your talking.

More importantly we finally had a winning season without him, so how much of a impact did he really have.

1) He is not a jump shooter.
2) Re: KP - Its the seasons after the first three people are talking his injuries
3) I am biased in favor of Mitchell Robinson. Time will tell whether I am right or wrong on his contract. I bet his number is closer to my 13 than your 6.
4) I've shown on countless occasions what he does well. Noel's existence as a replacement speaks to the Knicks having depth, not to Mitchell failing to be impactful. Stats show that Mitch is better than Noel (who got 9.24m per year)

https://dailyknicks.com/2021/05/28/mitchell-robinson-injury-history-updates/

This is a reasonable summary of Mitchell Robinson's injuries. Concussion, broken hand, broken foot don't really resemble the "injury prone" label we see in bigger players where their knees and or backs tend to have problems. Foot injuries can be concerning based on the weight coming down, so I won't minimize that, but the "impact" injuries are not as worrisome to me. There are no repeat occurrences here.

yeah and Noel showed you what an Injury can do to your market value..

I wish I could bet you on the Dollar amount, because there's no way in hell this FO is giving Mitch anywhere near 13 mill..

keep in mind he's going to missed the first month or more of this coming season

ES
gradyandrew
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8/31/2021  7:10 AM
Because Robinson was a second round pick,his next contract has a max salary of 11 million or so. He will get other offers around there next season almost for sure, he just has too much potential. The negotiation is on how many years and options.
Nalod
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8/31/2021  7:21 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Because Robinson was a second round pick,his next contract has a max salary of 11 million or so. He will get other offers around there next season almost for sure, he just has too much potential. The negotiation is on how many years and options.

I suppose thats where the 4 yr, 44mil (11 per) comes from.
The hand injury was a contact one. Not a big concern. The foot from what I recall was not.
He just came down on it. For an athletic over fundamental type player thats a “Thing”.
HE can play this a few different ways. Question is not how us fans value him. ITs the FO of the NY Knicks that matters.

I can’t tell you if Jericho Simms will be ready after this season but Noel and his contract does not leave us in a lurch if Mitch wants to test the market and succeed elsewhere. Not a big FA market and not sure bird rights really factor in here. IF so we can “sign and trade” him next year???

newyorknewyork
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8/31/2021  8:46 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Because Robinson was a second round pick,his next contract has a max salary of 11 million or so. He will get other offers around there next season almost for sure, he just has too much potential. The negotiation is on how many years and options.

This also would be dependent on Incentive Compensation correct? Like if he for arguments sake he makes 2nd team all defensive team. Accomplishing this achievement would up his available pay scale right?

If so, for him it may be in his best interest to wait it out. As 9-11mil will be available for him regardless unless major injury(knock on wood). He could gamble on himself and even if not achieve any accomplishments still make close to double figures per season. The main risk he would be taking would be the amount of years. Signing 44mil guaranteed vs say having an average-above average yr and getting something like 18-20mil total on a 2 yr deal or something. Then completely falling off and never getting that type of salary again. Thus losing out on possible 20mil.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
newyorknewyork
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8/31/2021  8:51 AM
Also Mitch missed only 5 games in 19-20. Season was cut short due to covid. That 61 games played isn't on a 82 games scale.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Nalod
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8/31/2021  9:59 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:Because Robinson was a second round pick,his next contract has a max salary of 11 million or so. He will get other offers around there next season almost for sure, he just has too much potential. The negotiation is on how many years and options.

This also would be dependent on Incentive Compensation correct? Like if he for arguments sake he makes 2nd team all defensive team. Accomplishing this achievement would up his available pay scale right?

If so, for him it may be in his best interest to wait it out. As 9-11mil will be available for him regardless unless major injury(knock on wood). He could gamble on himself and even if not achieve any accomplishments still make close to double figures per season. The main risk he would be taking would be the amount of years. Signing 44mil guaranteed vs say having an average-above average yr and getting something like 18-20mil total on a 2 yr deal or something. Then completely falling off and never getting that type of salary again. Thus losing out on possible 20mil.

Not sure I’d label him “Injury prone” but as a fan we don’t know the bone he broke in his foot and if that is a one time thing or a “condition”.
As for “A bird in the hand…….” He has not only has Norlens Noel as a reminder but the visceral impact of playing with him in practice and literally has his sweat on him. Is his current agent or others around him able to be more than a “yes man” for him or does he has a solid foundation to build his decision on.
Randle took less to build stability on which to thrive. Knicks can grant him that. Not sure they can with every member. 4 year deal at that money puts him at age 28 when the next deal comes. Who is he then and his health history could bring a bigger pay day. Without that security he could bounce out of the league.
4 year extension keeps him in 4 years AFTER this one.
Reasons for and against.

Philc1
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9/2/2021  3:45 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Also Mitch missed only 5 games in 19-20. Season was cut short due to covid. That 61 games played isn't on a 82 games scale.

Yep

Philc1
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9/2/2021  3:47 AM
Nalod wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:Because Robinson was a second round pick,his next contract has a max salary of 11 million or so. He will get other offers around there next season almost for sure, he just has too much potential. The negotiation is on how many years and options.

This also would be dependent on Incentive Compensation correct? Like if he for arguments sake he makes 2nd team all defensive team. Accomplishing this achievement would up his available pay scale right?

If so, for him it may be in his best interest to wait it out. As 9-11mil will be available for him regardless unless major injury(knock on wood). He could gamble on himself and even if not achieve any accomplishments still make close to double figures per season. The main risk he would be taking would be the amount of years. Signing 44mil guaranteed vs say having an average-above average yr and getting something like 18-20mil total on a 2 yr deal or something. Then completely falling off and never getting that type of salary again. Thus losing out on possible 20mil.

Not sure I’d label him “Injury prone” but as a fan we don’t know the bone he broke in his foot and if that is a one time thing or a “condition”.
As for “A bird in the hand…….” He has not only has Norlens Noel as a reminder but the visceral impact of playing with him in practice and literally has his sweat on him. Is his current agent or others around him able to be more than a “yes man” for him or does he has a solid foundation to build his decision on.
Randle took less to build stability on which to thrive. Knicks can grant him that. Not sure they can with every member. 4 year deal at that money puts him at age 28 when the next deal comes. Who is he then and his health history could bring a bigger pay day. Without that security he could bounce out of the league.
4 year extension keeps him in 4 years AFTER this one.
Reasons for and against.

Avoiding injury is actually something of a skill in pro sports. A lot of guys start out in the nba and nfl getting injured all the time and then later on figure it out and stop constantly getting injured

Jmpasq
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9/4/2021  10:07 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/c/year/2020

Don’t really care what random article says. It’s interesting you use the last Hollinger ratings from a injury laden season to support your statistical analysis, ignoring the amazing healthy season that took place immediately before that (in a shortened season, admittedly).

Point is, I’m on the buyer side of Mitch Robinson. By your analysis method he is a top 5 player when healthy… I believe he is undervalued by many and I think he still has significant upside growth potential.


You can see the limitations of PER when Kanter, Whiteside and Drummond are in top 19.

They over value volume shooting and rebounding.
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
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10/12/2021  9:19 PM

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