Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

Boston offered Phil Jaylen Brown plus draft picks

UGH!!!!

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

Boston offered Phil Jaylen Brown plus draft picks

UGH!!!!

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

Boston offered Phil Jaylen Brown plus draft picks

UGH!!!!

Phil wanted Brown and the number 3 pick and Ainge tried to offer everything else in the world...but Phil would not bite.

Ainge counteroffered with Brown and future draft picks. At the time I wanted Phil to trade KP straight up for the 3 pick so we could get Tatum

It was incredible how the people who know everything in the media were roasting Phil at the time for even discussing this with Ainge

100%...for all Phil’s shenanigans with Melo, the triangle, etc..he saw around the curve on KP and want to deal him...I believe he wanted somehow to replace him with Lauri Markknen..

Nalod wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

Boston offered Phil Jaylen Brown plus draft picks

UGH!!!!

Phil wanted Brown and the number 3 pick and Ainge tried to offer everything else in the world...but Phil would not bite.

Ainge counteroffered with Brown and future draft picks. At the time I wanted Phil to trade KP straight up for the 3 pick so we could get Tatum

It was incredible how the people who know everything in the media were roasting Phil at the time for even discussing this with Ainge

100%...for all Phil’s shenanigans with Melo, the triangle, etc..he saw around the curve on KP and want to deal him...I believe he wanted somehow to replace him with Lauri Markknen..

The exit meeting BS was an affront to Phil in my opinion. Phil might have thought not as an exec but as a coach and thought he would not want to coach this kid. For all his executive mistakes Phil’s credentials as a coach are substantial and having coached some massive ego’s and many many players himself there was much to consider including the “Fragile” label he had. PHil coached payers who had beef with management before. Big egos and big beefs. But you let our agent handle business and players stay focused on team matters. What ever KP’s issues were, and some might have been legit the public nature of missing a meeting and then going on a bike ride on the upper west side was a bad looking stunt. We likely don’t know half of it but it seemed to motivate PHil not for retribution, but perhaps the hand writing on the wall. Recall reading Gaines had to convince Phil to draft him on his talent. The “Small ass” comment and injury concerns were there from day one. Maybe PHil saw a path to draft then trade and after the exit meeting that was as good as it would get. KP can say “same old dopey knicks” and PHil can say “Ok, we got more assets to improve” and that would be that. Markkanen has not been a straight line healthy specimen either but if could have gotten booker or Brown from Celtics that could have been good. NO guarantee Phil succeeds and we lived happily ever after. Way to many “what ifs” one you get away from the moment and PHil regardless of “Blame” record spoke for itself and it was a failed tenure.
I thought Dolan made a bold hire in him at a time fans were needing a starphuch exec and it did not work.
I think Mills deserved a chance given his position and while his time was short as top guy and in retrospect did a very fair job transitioning to him with Perry, traded Melo respectfullly, smoothed out the KP trade with Randle (opportunity creates luck) it lead to another Dolan bold hire in Leon who other than Perry cleaned house. Let’s give Dolan some credit, Leon created a mostly new FO and coaching staff and that costs big money!
Because we are off to a good start and this new FO there is a new respect. If Mills and Perry had this team in the same place there would be “yeah.....But”. Thats how media works and fans eat it up.

There are reasons to be cheerful now. Enjoy it.

Agreed...Phil set the mandate in motion about "not trading first rounders"...yes..the cap hit with Noah is his fault and the NTC clause he gave Melo for the return of a $5 mill give back in salary....but the path of redemption had to start someplace...Phil pushed out... Mills and Perry cleaned up the cap....then Leon Rose took it from there...

I forgot about KP blowing off that exit meeting....but to be honest....he saw Phil the previous season tear down Melo...go to the tabloids...etc...to get Melo to move off the NTC....your young start seeing that...along with his "head in the clouds" representation and all of the losing...the wrong coaches at the wrong times....not that difficult to see KP "NOT" playing the loyal soldier...

Those Phil mind games work...see Kobe....they almost broke up...Kobe wanted the trade to the Bulls...Phil criticized him in his book...but they mended fences.....he was the best thing for Kobe as a coach...Phil needed to be a bit more discreet as an exec...

As you mentioned he was not high on KP but at the time KP was outplaying his draft position being the 2nd best player in that draft at the time after KAT....Dolan saw $$$.....when Phil put him on the market the day of the draft the world took notice....A lot of people at the time...a good chunk on this board thought Phil was crazy....he was ...like a fox.....if he got Brown and the number #3 or Booker and the PHX pick I think #4....would have "possibly" changed the trajectory a bit of the franchise...I use the term possibly loosely....

Dolan was not having it...and pushed him out and essential gave the keys to KP...because when you push the GM out as the player...what else is does that imply...KP already on his diva $hit was sitting on top of the franchise...had he not blew out his knee...which saved Mills/Perry from themselves.... him and his brother would have wanted input and direction on everything...which they tried with Phil...

In any case...all moot...like where we are at as a franchise right now..

ekstarks94 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:

Nalod wrote:We don’t act like a base who is “over KP”. WE rather enjoying this. Its human nature.
I remember when my obsessive 1248 blamed Mills for KP’s soured relationship with Knicks. Perhaps there is just a tad more validity that it was his camp. Not saying to defend Mills. Results speak for themselves. We are all accountable. And we as UK fans accountable to each other!

At the end of the day its all “regrettable”. To see a Unicorn turn so ugly so fast is just a damn shame. He could have transcended the game to another level with that height and shooting skill. His ball instincts were fantastic and hustled. Remember he damn near broke his ankle vs Milwaukee going out of bounds to save a ball. He’d block shots and recover with great instinct. Damn shame he got hurt and turned to the dark side in his persona.

Dark side of his persona.....the guy is a prick....Phil saw that and potential injury concerns and wanted to sell high...if Boston of PHX gave into Phil’s demands we would maybe been on a different trajectory as a franchise....Yes we have gotten hammered by the pundits but that trade would have been the classic “see around the corner move”

Boston offered Phil Jaylen Brown plus draft picks

UGH!!!!

Phil wanted Brown and the number 3 pick and Ainge tried to offer everything else in the world...but Phil would not bite.

Ainge counteroffered with Brown and future draft picks. At the time I wanted Phil to trade KP straight up for the 3 pick so we could get Tatum

It was incredible how the people who know everything in the media were roasting Phil at the time for even discussing this with Ainge

100%...for all Phil’s shenanigans with Melo, the triangle, etc..he saw around the curve on KP and want to deal him...I believe he wanted somehow to replace him with Lauri Markknen..

Dolan vetoed the trade for Jaylen Brown plus picks

Philc1 wrote:The trade Perry did ultimately do was fine. Signing Randle who is currently better than KP certainly helped the situation. It’s pretty hilarious now that Mark Cuban, who was giggling like a schoolgirl when he did the trade, is now shopping KP trying to get rid of his awful contract

That is what I thought at the time, and, in retrospect, it is playing out along that way in general. The Knicks, after so many years of miserly, simply could not afford locking themselves up to another max contract with a player who might never be effective due to injury. Now, KP has recovered a lot better than feared, but the current question marks are not unexpected. Cuban was in a better position to take a gamble than the Knicks, so the trade made sense for both sides.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:The trade Perry did ultimately do was fine. Signing Randle who is currently better than KP certainly helped the situation. It’s pretty hilarious now that Mark Cuban, who was giggling like a schoolgirl when he did the trade, is now shopping KP trying to get rid of his awful contract

That is what I thought at the time, and, in retrospect, it is playing out along that way in general. The Knicks, after so many years of miserly, simply could not afford locking themselves up to another max contract with a player who might never be effective due to injury. Now, KP has recovered a lot better than feared, but the current question marks are not unexpected. Cuban was in a better position to take a gamble than the Knicks, so the trade made sense for both sides.

I just did the google news thing for KP. Cuban is DESPERATE to get rid of him

Philc1 wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Philc1 wrote:The trade Perry did ultimately do was fine. Signing Randle who is currently better than KP certainly helped the situation. It’s pretty hilarious now that Mark Cuban, who was giggling like a schoolgirl when he did the trade, is now shopping KP trying to get rid of his awful contract

That is what I thought at the time, and, in retrospect, it is playing out along that way in general. The Knicks, after so many years of miserly, simply could not afford locking themselves up to another max contract with a player who might never be effective due to injury. Now, KP has recovered a lot better than feared, but the current question marks are not unexpected. Cuban was in a better position to take a gamble than the Knicks, so the trade made sense for both sides.

I just did the google news thing for KP. Cuban is DESPERATE to get rid of him

I can just imagine how those quiet little phone conversations are going.

"Hey, Mark here. I've got some really nice 2027 and 2028 first rounders you could have if you just take this KP con--"
"Click"

Nalod wrote:Guys, most of knick fans were ****ting on Mills/Perry for the deal. So lets not think it was just outside hate on us.
At the end of the day it all gets sorted out on the court. PHilc, be nice if you linked some of those articles that perhaps add something to that narrative. I google it and all I see are that Cuban is upset about the reports. Naturally he needs to keep the peace if its true. I just never read anything beyond that.
Reality is Luka turned into a god which was not expected. KP was an upside gamble and I have no doubt Cuban knew all the risks and then some. We can’t really think us fans knew better? Right? Seriously? Like really?
Does that mean there is truth to this rumor? Perhaps. The chemistry is not there and KP defense is suspect. Pre injury he could move laterally and protect the rim. A stretch 4 or 5 needs mobility to cover ground on defense. Jokic is not Mutumbo but he is a different kind of player all together.
In any event look at us all happy with Julious, not lamenting over Dennis because we have IQ and a FO that has given us things to look forward to instead of regretting the past.
Mav’s might not give us a great pick but thats on Luka, not KP’s ascension.
Nalod is not going to revel in KP’s decline until he is playing in china. That shyt comes back to bite if you bask in it.

nyknickzingis wrote:If Dallas trades him, they will get much more than the Knicks ever did, and that is the reason they would make a move like that, they would be upgrading in assets.

Not so sure. The combination of his large contract and injury risk has likely been scaring teams off, which is why Dallas has not already traded him. Maybe in a couple of years, when he is closer to contract expiry. He needs to put together a couple of 70+ seasons to get another max.