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I think it's almost a guarantee we sign Gallinari this offseason
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TripleThreat
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7/9/2020  2:29 PM
Knixkik wrote:
He's the ideal fit ...


The other issue is the role would change.

He would be, by default, the Knicks primary offensive option.

He can create his own shot. Can he do it consistently night after night with teams bracketing him on defense. His defense is interesting in that he's actually not a bad defender. But it's a series of compromises and tradeoffs because he's not an elite athlete ( relative to the NBA). He plays smart for sure. But if you make him the primary offensive option, how will that shade his defense?

Every player has value in context. If Noah was a Knick back in the day on a 2 year / 6 million dollar contract, that's not so bad. But for the years and money he got, he was an anchor around this teams neck. Was I ever a fan of Trey Burke? No, but at least he came cheap and with little commitment.

The Knicks can only really see value if they only sign him with the intent to soft loophole the cap. But they aren't the ideal team to do this or want to do this.

Here is where things get interesting because the current CBA is not designed for a COVID19 "new normal" type marketplace environment.

You sign a guy to a heavy one year deal. You do a buyout where you still deal with cap hit implied, but the cash hit variable changes. Since the heavy one year deal is one that no team will want to claim on waivers, a guy like Gallo goes free and becomes a ring chaser. A contender can't pay Gallo even close to market rate money ( the nature of a contender is usually a roster that is cap locked or in the luxury zone) Gallo makes more money than he would by outright signing with a projected contender but still gets to pick his team AFTER some of the season shakes out and he can see a clearer view of the field/options. The team who signs him would do this to get to the salary floor on paper, but actual cash moving can be far far less. Also Gallo is useful player so that gives you a little burn early in the season to help next years season ticket sales.

The Knicks are a cash rich team, so doing something like this does not help them

But the Atlanta Hawks? They have really poor attendance even before COVID19. They are not anywhere near the Knicks in terms of generating revenue. Hitting the cap floor but with cash savings as a way to stall until COVID19 settles out some isn't such a horrible look in some circumstances.

"Renting" your open cap space in trades for draft picks is the normal strategy, but how many teams are going to want to trade their picks in this environment? Teams are going to want to shed salary, not add it LONG TERM, so those rookie contracts take a different cost control spin.

The more teams are incentivized to do this, the value of veteran players, who are not the elite top 15 type of guys, begins to diminish. It can become a cycle that compounds upon itself.

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Knixkik
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7/9/2020  3:12 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
He's the ideal fit ...


The other issue is the role would change.

He would be, by default, the Knicks primary offensive option.

He can create his own shot. Can he do it consistently night after night with teams bracketing him on defense. His defense is interesting in that he's actually not a bad defender. But it's a series of compromises and tradeoffs because he's not an elite athlete ( relative to the NBA). He plays smart for sure. But if you make him the primary offensive option, how will that shade his defense?

Every player has value in context. If Noah was a Knick back in the day on a 2 year / 6 million dollar contract, that's not so bad. But for the years and money he got, he was an anchor around this teams neck. Was I ever a fan of Trey Burke? No, but at least he came cheap and with little commitment.

The Knicks can only really see value if they only sign him with the intent to soft loophole the cap. But they aren't the ideal team to do this or want to do this.

Here is where things get interesting because the current CBA is not designed for a COVID19 "new normal" type marketplace environment.

You sign a guy to a heavy one year deal. You do a buyout where you still deal with cap hit implied, but the cash hit variable changes. Since the heavy one year deal is one that no team will want to claim on waivers, a guy like Gallo goes free and becomes a ring chaser. A contender can't pay Gallo even close to market rate money ( the nature of a contender is usually a roster that is cap locked or in the luxury zone) Gallo makes more money than he would by outright signing with a projected contender but still gets to pick his team AFTER some of the season shakes out and he can see a clearer view of the field/options. The team who signs him would do this to get to the salary floor on paper, but actual cash moving can be far far less. Also Gallo is useful player so that gives you a little burn early in the season to help next years season ticket sales.

The Knicks are a cash rich team, so doing something like this does not help them

But the Atlanta Hawks? They have really poor attendance even before COVID19. They are not anywhere near the Knicks in terms of generating revenue. Hitting the cap floor but with cash savings as a way to stall until COVID19 settles out some isn't such a horrible look in some circumstances.

"Renting" your open cap space in trades for draft picks is the normal strategy, but how many teams are going to want to trade their picks in this environment? Teams are going to want to shed salary, not add it LONG TERM, so those rookie contracts take a different cost control spin.

The more teams are incentivized to do this, the value of veteran players, who are not the elite top 15 type of guys, begins to diminish. It can become a cycle that compounds upon itself.

I think he would have the same role as he had in LAC, Denver, and most recently OKC. He's been a top offensive option, or close to it. He's 1A or 1B now as would be the same with the hope that Barrett takes on a bigger role as the primary scorer/playmaker. I know he plays with CP3 which make it much easier, but he leads OKC in scoring tied with SGA.

93BUICK
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7/17/2020  7:16 PM
almost a guarantee- can we call that a Guarantari ?

I'd like to see Gallo back but can't image it going well

If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
Nalod
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7/18/2020  9:37 AM

I tend to think Miller did better with Randle than Fizdale in the limited time he was head coach.
I tend to look at the things Randle did well and would expect a coach to enhance that.
Granted, if he is not the long term answer I just as soon trade him but I hardly think paying a guy over 20mm to come off the bench is really that bright.
Gallo is 32 and injury prone. I see him as a finishing piece for a contender. Keep him healthy for the playoffs.
Knixkik
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7/20/2020  10:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2020  10:01 AM
Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.
franco12
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7/20/2020  10:33 AM
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

Knixkik
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7/20/2020  12:33 PM
franco12 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

I agree. I think adding VanVleet and a combo guard via the draft like Haliburton would do wonders for modernizing this team with 2-way guards who can shoot and defend.

smackeddog
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7/20/2020  12:45 PM
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

I agree. I think adding VanVleet and a combo guard via the draft like Haliburton would do wonders for modernizing this team with 2-way guards who can shoot and defend.

I do like that idea- move RJ to SF. I also like that VanVleet was clutch in last years playoffs

Knixkik
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7/20/2020  1:05 PM
smackeddog wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

I agree. I think adding VanVleet and a combo guard via the draft like Haliburton would do wonders for modernizing this team with 2-way guards who can shoot and defend.

I do like that idea- move RJ to SF. I also like that VanVleet was clutch in last years playoffs

I can see a scenario where we sign VanVleet and draft Haliburton and next year the starting backcourt is VanVleet and Barrett but whenever Haliburton is really ready he can start at the 2 with Barrett sliding to the 3. Putting players like VanVleet and Haliburton next to Barrett and Robinson is ideal because both are good outside shooters, good defensive players, and solid playmakers, but can still play off the ball as Barrett will be a playmaker as well. It gives us the foundation for a real future with these 4 players and the only long-term piece missing will be an elite stretch 4. Maybe it can be Knox, you never know. Or maybe Knox can still have a future here and develop into a long-term scoring 6th man.

martin
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7/20/2020  1:13 PM
Knixkik wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

I agree. I think adding VanVleet and a combo guard via the draft like Haliburton would do wonders for modernizing this team with 2-way guards who can shoot and defend.

I do like that idea- move RJ to SF. I also like that VanVleet was clutch in last years playoffs

I can see a scenario where we sign VanVleet and draft Haliburton and next year the starting backcourt is VanVleet and Barrett but whenever Haliburton is really ready he can start at the 2 with Barrett sliding to the 3. Putting players like VanVleet and Haliburton next to Barrett and Robinson is ideal because both are good outside shooters, good defensive players, and solid playmakers, but can still play off the ball as Barrett will be a playmaker as well. It gives us the foundation for a real future with these 4 players and the only long-term piece missing will be an elite stretch 4. Maybe it can be Knox, you never know. Or maybe Knox can still have a future here and develop into a long-term scoring 6th man.

Moving both Frank and DSJr to bench or trade them?

And maybe you can get away with RJ at the 3 in certain lineups but that many guards will force you to make wholesale changes to the roster because of the imbalance.

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TripleThreat
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7/20/2020  4:14 PM
93BUICK wrote:I'd like to see Gallo back but can't image it going well


Might be better to try to trade for Kyle Kuzma. Obviously not as useful as Gallo, but he's not working out in LA in the role they have him doing. I'm not sure why anyone would think Kuzma would work with AD and LBJ in the first place.

With Kuzma, the talent is there, the discipline is not, maybe Thibs can help unlock it.

Knixkik
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7/20/2020  4:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/20/2020  4:32 PM
martin wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
franco12 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Just to revise this a bit, i think the only reason we don't sign him is if we go with VanVleet and just look to fill the remaining rotation spots with lower priced vets like Melo, Ariza, etc. But assuming we make 1 real FA investment, i think it's Gallinari or VanVleet.

VanVleet makes the most sense of the FA that are out there that I know about.

Talented. Fits a giant need. Will make other players better. And he's young.

If I am handing out a 4 year $80m contract in the middle of a contracting economy, it better be to someone young that still has upside to his game, not someone on the wrong side of thirty with declining health/skills.

I agree. I think adding VanVleet and a combo guard via the draft like Haliburton would do wonders for modernizing this team with 2-way guards who can shoot and defend.

I do like that idea- move RJ to SF. I also like that VanVleet was clutch in last years playoffs

I can see a scenario where we sign VanVleet and draft Haliburton and next year the starting backcourt is VanVleet and Barrett but whenever Haliburton is really ready he can start at the 2 with Barrett sliding to the 3. Putting players like VanVleet and Haliburton next to Barrett and Robinson is ideal because both are good outside shooters, good defensive players, and solid playmakers, but can still play off the ball as Barrett will be a playmaker as well. It gives us the foundation for a real future with these 4 players and the only long-term piece missing will be an elite stretch 4. Maybe it can be Knox, you never know. Or maybe Knox can still have a future here and develop into a long-term scoring 6th man.

Moving both Frank and DSJr to bench or trade them?

And maybe you can get away with RJ at the 3 in certain lineups but that many guards will force you to make wholesale changes to the roster because of the imbalance.

Frank is still a quality bench combo guard/4th guard and i don't see DSjr here long-term or even a long-term rotation player at this point. Not sure if either player will be in the plans, but Frank is more likely. As far as inbalance, it's really just positionless basketball. OKC ran lineups with CP3, Schroder, and SGA, all basically PGs and playing together at the same time. As long as the players are all versatile enough as defenders and can keep a defense honest with outside shooting, it will work fine.

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7/20/2020  9:14 PM
TheGame wrote:Why sign a 32 year old PF? We are at best going to fighting for eighth seed next year and with the upcoming stacked draft, we would be better off tanking for one more season. I would be perfectly fine with the Knicks making one or two minors changes and bringing back the same core group. Just from individual improvement with Mitch, Knox, and Barrett, the team should perform better. I don’t approve of a move like signing Gallo. I think it would be a mistake that takes minutes from Knox and Iggy.

I would overpay for a real PG thats it

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I think it's almost a guarantee we sign Gallinari this offseason

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