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Is it time for Dolan to sell the team? Or be made to sell the team
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Papabear
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6/4/2020  3:30 PM
Papabear Says

I'm not here to start controversy but if Dolan can't say anything about the murder of George Floyd. Then something is wrong. If a priest , or preacher , or rabbi, or muslim minister can speak on it. Dolan has no excuse. You mean he can't it was wrong to say something?? I believe he needs to stop making his basketball money off black men if he is not willing to make a stand. I think he should sell the team if he is not willing to say one little thing.What kind of leader is he? I never thought I would be saying this. What do you think??

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BigDaddyG
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6/4/2020  4:01 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not here to start controversy but if Dolan can't say anything about the murder of George Floyd. Then something is wrong. If a priest , or preacher , or rabbi, or muslim minister can speak on it. Dolan has no excuse. You mean he can't it was wrong to say something?? I believe he needs to stop making his basketball money off black men if he is not willing to make a stand. I think he should sell the team if he is not willing to say one little thing.What kind of leader is he? I never thought I would be saying this. What do you think??

I won't say Dolan should be forced to sell, but I agree with many of your sentiments. When you own a franchise, I think there's a lot of responsibility that comes along with. If there was an Amazon warehouse located where MSG is located, I don't think anyone would think twice about the use of eminent domain to use that land for the better good. Residents support their teams with what amounts to corporate welfare, identify and support them as an essential member of the community and form symbiotic Dynamics with these organizations. Being an owner is more than trying to look cool on the front row. In my honest opinion, Dolan has continued to fail to live up to all those responsibilities. That's not enough to force him out, but it's enough to perpetuate the team's image as one of the laughingstocks of the league.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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6/4/2020  5:00 PM
My heart understands your point but my head is asking why you think issuing a press release is good enough for you. I get that it's the LEAST he could do and I am overtly putting the PR perspective aside. My question is why is that good enough for you and have you checked to see what else MSG/Dolan has done to support this type of effort compared to his peers? And if Dolan or his company HAS done something, does he automatically have to send everyone a press release/email about every charity or event he supports? I get that this one is historically monumental but if all you are doing is issuing a press release, you are (in essence) doing jack ****. Right? Doland Sterling sure issued a lot of press releases back in the day and I don't put any weight into any of it.

If Dolan had his company issue a press release, it means he spent exactly 10 seconds asking someone else to do something that'll take another 15 minutes of an interns time to issue a Twitter/Instagram release. In essence, you are AOK with Dolan doing exactly nothing but telling someone else to copy and paste the same exact statement that everyone else is putting out. It does show solidarity and a kind, meaningful heart of understanding but what does it actually do besides make moot the original article about all of this?

Politicians and police forces for decades have been putting out press releases about understanding their communities. You satisfied with that? I doubt it.

How many NFL teams put out some nice shiny press release about Colin K? That's good enough?

Dolan is a dumb ****. We all agree on that, right? Why are you looking at him for some moral leadership? Ironically he was being honest: "I'm not the guy that people should look to to hold a voice on this". Why is the stake in the ground that an entertainment company that we all pay attention to needs to, in the very least, very overtly (if it is the case) put spin to us?

Why is the line in the sand a press release? Why isn't it.... what are you doing about this? And if you don't DO something, I'm out?

I don't watch football or pay attention to overly large men in tights hugging and rolling on the ground with each other for hours at a time once a week, so I really don't understand Colin's talent level and place within the NFL spectrum before he knelt. When we all realized that this guy was ostracized, what did everyone make their respective teams do? Did we all check to make sure press releases were issued? Is that good enough? Is that how low the bar is set? Did anyone STOP watching the NFL or drop their team? This was right in our faces all along. Again, NFL team issues press release they all good? In this particular instance, did we collectively hold the NFL accountable or did we really let them and each team get away with black-balling Colin? And as fans, if you DIDN'T stop supporting the NFL or your team, are you any better or worse than Dolan not sending his marketing team to the Twitter/Instagram press release mattresses?

My company has not issued a press release nor have I sent an email to my employees about my support on this subject. I do personally participate and have supported in my local town but I don't advertise it. Do I need to? Is that the expectation? My company too small? OK, what are the ground rules for what companies need to issue press releases and which do not? If I don't press release my support doesn't count?

Papabear, what other companies that you interact with have you gone out and checked to see if they have issued a press release? Are you going to ask the same of each company? Also, if it is a different social issue, will you be asking again those same companies to issue a press release?

I understand the [fake] show of support that goes into a press release and the PR'ish aspect to it. Why aren't we asking WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THIS, what HAVE you done about this and then holding them accountable?

First front office that is all African American, sweet. No press release, SELL THE TEAM? From an intellectual stand point, I don't get the perspective of line drawn in sand being a press release and the accompanying level of consternation.

IDK, I'm not OK with companies participating in our gov't especially via $$$. I like when they positively participate in social issues and will in term support them more. I don't find that issuing press releases amounts to much and won't really judge a company in the manner you have for this particular instance.

If someone else didn't bring this up I don't think any of us would have put an ounce of care or time into checking to see what MSG/Dolan was doing in terms of a press release. It's also pretty clear that none of us have checked what Dolan/MSG HAS done to support this issue outside of this article, right? Correct me if I am wrong on that. Did any of the beat writers actually ask MSG how they would be supporting this moment or were they there just for the clicks?

Have we compared what MSG/Dolan had done during height of COVID to other organizations? Should we hold accountable every other team that did not match that effort? Or press release good enough?

Is there a date by which MSG/Dolan must show his support or it's not good enough?

What you are asking is that ALL companies should be showing their support on (all?) social issues to us via press releases?

We all know that Dolan doesn't give a flying **** about PR. Why is anyone expecting different for this? We have already accepted that Dolan is a dumb **** on PR or we would not be following his team already.

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Sambakick
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6/4/2020  5:31 PM
Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.
Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
BigDaddyG
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6/4/2020  6:31 PM
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

This is the constant thread in the almost monthly arguments we seem to have on why Dolan SHOULD sell the team. I definitely agree with those points. But I'd be disappointed if the NBA did force Dolan to sell the team. The NBA probably could do it and it's within their power. Remember, the NBA turned a blind eye to Donald Sterling for decades. I'm not comparing Dolan to Sterling by any stretch. But Sterling's ouster was more of a function of bad publicity. Dolan is a bad owner, but that's not enough cause to force him out. The Knicks are stuck with him and the best we can are a few positive blips along the way. This team will likely never see a stretch of sustained success.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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6/4/2020  7:39 PM
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?

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Jmpasq
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6/4/2020  7:39 PM
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

The dude is such an a-hole he would keep the team just to spite us

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BigDaddyG
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6/4/2020  8:41 PM
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?


We offered Julius the most money. All things being equal, most players would choose x-team
over the Knicks. Dolan's presence definitely hurts us in free agency. I believe most owners love the fact that Dolan is here because it makes them look so much better. Same with NFL owners and Dan Snyder and every other sports league with inept owners. Up
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Sambakick
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6/4/2020  8:42 PM
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?

Julius Randle is the kind of free agent you get with Dolan. You made my point for me.

Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
martin
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6/4/2020  9:04 PM
Amare, Melo. And that was AFTER Anucha Browne Sanders.

Come on guys, don't be this simple.

Feel free to address how an openly racist owner didn't get black balled by players and why players didn't demand trades out or why Doc Rivers did sign with the team.

If your point is about a healthy environment, address it in whole. If all you respond to is something tangential about Julius Randle, you have lost out.

BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?


We offered Julius the most money. All things being equal, most players would choose x-team
over the Knicks. Dolan's presence definitely hurts us in free agency. I believe most owners love the fact that Dolan is here because it makes them look so much better. Same with NFL owners and Dan Snyder and every other sports league with inept owners. Up

Sambakick wrote:
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?

Julius Randle is the kind of free agent you get with Dolan. You made my point for me.

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Sambakick
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6/4/2020  9:16 PM
martin wrote:Amare, Melo. And that was AFTER Anucha Browne Sanders.

Come on guys, don't be this simple.

Feel free to address how an openly racist owner didn't get black balled by players and why players didn't demand trades out or why Doc Rivers did sign with the team.

If your point is about a healthy environment, address it in whole. If all you respond to is something tangential about Julius Randle, you have lost out.

OK i'll address your points (even though they are all obviously flawed).

Here goes:
Melo was a trade. Then he signed with us because Phil gave him a near max (more $$$ than he could make elsewhere) with a trade kicker.
Amare was an uninsurable max contract that his own team had no interest in when they could have offered him more money.
Julius Randle was the player we turned to after striking out on KD and Kyrie (and please pay attention here to this SIMPLE point). they came to New York but NOT THE KNICKS. Hmmmm..... please tell me why?

You should know better Martin. Stop apologizing for Dolan.

Regarding the Clippers, CP3 was traded there. He wanted to be traded to the Lakers ... only David Stern stopped it.

Back to Dolan, while he has long been called. abad owner, its only in recent years has he totally embarrassed the team with his antics with fans and former players and now as a Trump lackey.

This explanation was really not necessary. You know better.

Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
BigDaddyG
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6/4/2020  9:24 PM
martin wrote:Amare, Melo. And that was AFTER Anucha Browne Sanders.

Come on guys, don't be this simple.

Feel free to address how an openly racist owner didn't get black balled by players and why players didn't demand trades out or why Doc Rivers did sign with the team.

If your point is about a healthy environment, address it in whole. If all you respond to is something tangential about Julius Randle, you have lost out.

BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?


We offered Julius the most money. All things being equal, most players would choose x-team
over the Knicks. Dolan's presence definitely hurts us in free agency. I believe most owners love the fact that Dolan is here because it makes them look so much better. Same with NFL owners and Dan Snyder and every other sports league with inept owners. Up

Sambakick wrote:
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:Dolan isn't helping the Knicks bring in talent. He hurts in the recruitment effort. For the good of the team he should sell.

Doland Stirling was an openly racist muther****er. I can't remember too many players asking out or whatnot. You remember that time Chris Paul demanded a trade out of the Clippers?

Did Doc Rivers sign with a racist owner?

Do you think Julius Randle read through MSG's press releases to make sure he agreed with all of them and that they addressed his social needs?

Julius Randle is the kind of free agent you get with Dolan. You made my point for me.


So basically, you listed one guy. Again, we were the team that offered Amar'e the most money. All things being equal, he probably would've preferred staying in Phoenix if they offered him the same deal. Even with Melo, he's rumored to have said he wouldn't mind being traded to the Nets if they offered full max after the trade. That's why Dolan, our great owner, reportedly panicked and gave Masai everything he asked for, including Mozgov. I think the Mozgov demands was for kicks and giggles honestly, but it doesn't matter. Whatever, I'll give you Melo. One guy.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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6/4/2020  9:29 PM
Sambakick wrote:
martin wrote:Amare, Melo. And that was AFTER Anucha Browne Sanders.

Come on guys, don't be this simple.

Feel free to address how an openly racist owner didn't get black balled by players and why players didn't demand trades out or why Doc Rivers did sign with the team.

If your point is about a healthy environment, address it in whole. If all you respond to is something tangential about Julius Randle, you have lost out.

OK i'll address your points (even though they are all obviously flawed).

Here goes:
Melo was a trade. Then he signed with us because Phil gave him a near max (more $$$ than he could make elsewhere) with a trade kicker.
Amare was an uninsurable max contract that his own team had no interest in when they could have offered him more money.
Julius Randle was the player we turned to after striking out on KD and Kyrie (and please pay attention here to this SIMPLE point). they came to New York but NOT THE KNICKS. Hmmmm..... please tell me why?

You should know better Martin. Stop apologizing for Dolan.

Regarding the Clippers, CP3 was traded there. He wanted to be traded to the Lakers ... only David Stern stopped it.

Back to Dolan, while he has long been called. abad owner, its only in recent years has he totally embarrassed the team with his antics with fans and former players and now as a Trump lackey.

This explanation was really not necessary. You know better.

If you think I am apologizing for anyone you need to read what I have wrote more clearly.

Superstars did come to the Knicks, however flawed they or their contracts were. Insured, traded and re-signed, who cares. Your point was that the Knicks wouldn't be able to bring in any, and for this particular thread, it was due perhaps to not issuing a press release, which is beyond stupid.

How many times have you researched the press releases of your company and/or did some homework on the CEO's personal social issues? I'd guess about as much as the players do. The players do care about some aspects certainly about the environment they are playing in, but bottom line it'll be about career path, $$$$, and/or winning.

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martin
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6/4/2020  9:38 PM
Sexual assault charges by Anucha Browne Sanders against President/GM of the Knicks and the last straw for a player not signing with the Knicks is a non press release? Is that what this boils down to?
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arkrud
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6/4/2020  11:19 PM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not here to start controversy but if Dolan can't say anything about the murder of George Floyd. Then something is wrong. If a priest , or preacher , or rabbi, or muslim minister can speak on it. Dolan has no excuse. You mean he can't it was wrong to say something?? I believe he needs to stop making his basketball money off black men if he is not willing to make a stand. I think he should sell the team if he is not willing to say one little thing.What kind of leader is he? I never thought I would be saying this. What do you think??

Something is really wrong with Dolan own plantation... the millionaires players are getting robbed by billionaire owner... What a shame
Or something is really wrong with your post... It is not a good idea for such statements at a time when people of all ways of live and all races coming together to make a change and stop police brutality.
It is not about blacks or whites. It is about every human being life being respected.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
martin
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6/4/2020  11:31 PM
Not for nothing but Dolan along with a long list of NBA, NFL owners have given hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to Trump and the like. I'd be mad as HELL for that. Why isn't that brought up more? It's public infomration
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Sambakick
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6/5/2020  12:04 AM
martin wrote:
Sambakick wrote:
martin wrote:Amare, Melo. And that was AFTER Anucha Browne Sanders.

Come on guys, don't be this simple.

Feel free to address how an openly racist owner didn't get black balled by players and why players didn't demand trades out or why Doc Rivers did sign with the team.

If your point is about a healthy environment, address it in whole. If all you respond to is something tangential about Julius Randle, you have lost out.

OK i'll address your points (even though they are all obviously flawed).

Here goes:
Melo was a trade. Then he signed with us because Phil gave him a near max (more $$$ than he could make elsewhere) with a trade kicker.
Amare was an uninsurable max contract that his own team had no interest in when they could have offered him more money.
Julius Randle was the player we turned to after striking out on KD and Kyrie (and please pay attention here to this SIMPLE point). they came to New York but NOT THE KNICKS. Hmmmm..... please tell me why?

You should know better Martin. Stop apologizing for Dolan.

Regarding the Clippers, CP3 was traded there. He wanted to be traded to the Lakers ... only David Stern stopped it.

Back to Dolan, while he has long been called. abad owner, its only in recent years has he totally embarrassed the team with his antics with fans and former players and now as a Trump lackey.

This explanation was really not necessary. You know better.

If you think I am apologizing for anyone you need to read what I have wrote more clearly.

Superstars did come to the Knicks, however flawed they or their contracts were. Insured, traded and re-signed, who cares. Your point was that the Knicks wouldn't be able to bring in any, and for this particular thread, it was due perhaps to not issuing a press release, which is beyond stupid.

How many times have you researched the press releases of your company and/or did some homework on the CEO's personal social issues? I'd guess about as much as the players do. The players do care about some aspects certainly about the environment they are playing in, but bottom line it'll be about career path, $$$$, and/or winning.

I addressed your post fairly. I asked why you think we ended up with Randle and Portis and a bunch of dreck instead of KD and Kyrie. Don't you think that Dolan makes the Knicks look bad? Why did the NETS end up with the free agent haul and we ended up with the pupu platter of leftovers?

Think about it Martin.

Dolan is the problem.

Everything in moderation. Even moderation.
arkrud
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6/5/2020  6:47 AM
martin wrote:Not for nothing but Dolan along with a long list of NBA, NFL owners have given hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to Trump and the like. I'd be mad as HELL for that. Why isn't that brought up more? It's public infomration

Isn't their right to support Trump and Reps same as your right to support Dems and vote against Trump.
If they will lose their brights you will lose your.
We know hove it vent in those countries. They take the rights of the few to take the rights of all people.
Be careful what you wish for...

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Nalod
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6/5/2020  8:23 AM
Dolan is a lot of things and much of his character has not done well for the knicks.
He is a stubborn arrogant and often petty man. I’m only guessing he feels like he does not have to make a positional statement because he thinks MSG and his record and loyalty to his employees of color speaks for itself. I’m not aware of any repeated history were he or MSG has a culture that resulted in racial bias. Misogyny culture yes. Since Anucha it seems to be eraticated.
Dolan’s record of hiring black executives might be the most exemplary in the NBA over the last 20 years.
martin
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6/5/2020  1:20 PM
arkrud wrote:
martin wrote:Not for nothing but Dolan along with a long list of NBA, NFL owners have given hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to Trump and the like. I'd be mad as HELL for that. Why isn't that brought up more? It's public infomration

Isn't their right to support Trump and Reps same as your right to support Dems and vote against Trump.
If they will lose their brights you will lose your.
We know hove it vent in those countries. They take the rights of the few to take the rights of all people.
Be careful what you wish for...

I'm not wishing for what you are suggesting you think I wrote. arkrud, get that out of your head. You are 100% incorrect in trying to interpret my words. You took them and suggested something entirely different.

I am pointing out lots of other examples of what people did and did not do. Everyone is bringing up the topic of a press release, as if it were meaningful beyond asking an intern to post something to Twitter/Instagram.

Everyone wants positive change? What are we willing to do to entertainment companies, sports leagues to show that?

Did the NFL have a dip in ratings? Lose lots of endorsements? See massive fan exits? Small temp blip or sustained drop that affected change? Or were we placated because of some press releases and other broad promises of change?

Some people are mad that Dolan and MSG did not show their support via a press release. Great. How did you hold accountable the NFL? What did you personally do to show support of Colin K?

Is the expectation that everyone needs to personally describe their support and what they have done? We are holding Dolan to a standard, do we hold ourselves to the same? Dolan is not a public figure to me. He is a fat, alcoholic son who got born into the right family. Not someone I'm looking to for words about our current social uproar, perhaps other do. He has done a lot of stupid things, lots of charitable ones too.

Im just asking to up the game beyond being OK with a press release. Not issuing a press release is stupid. What's next? Suggesting that Dolan sell the team does NOTHING in terms of holding MSG or any company in terms of this particular moment in time. How about asking what MSG is GOING to do in support of this movement and letting them know you will hold them accountable? And then, you know, actually doing it.

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