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James Wiseman= David Robinson
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BigDaddyG
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4/1/2020  9:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/1/2020  9:42 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:it's rare that Briggs and I agree at the top of the draft, for example, Beasley over Rose. That said I tend to agree with him here. While I do not like that he can't shoot a three, he has everything else. He also seems to understand how to play and that makes sense considering he has been coached by Penny Hardaway for most of his competitive years

Has the same body athletiscm left handed like D Robinson. Already 7-1 251 at the same age Robinson was 6-9 215. Has nice shooting touch which is rare for a big man. Looks a lot like chris bosh shooting but he’s bigger stronger more athletic. He’s going to be good from day 1. Live mitch but he doesn’t have the offensive game wiseman has. He can be a center piece The Knicks need a center piece just so badly.i don’t have to guess here with him. Like Dallas I’d pay up to get him if at all possible.

Why are you projecting this guy to be a sure-fire HOF like player when no one else is even close to that?

His deficiencies? Dude has 3 games under his belt

I think he’s a player we can build around. I look at his measurables 7-1 251 7-6 wingspan his lefty jump shot his post moves his athletic ability speed up the floor— he reminds me of david Robinson. Not many lefty prospects like him in the last twenty years. Plenty of tape on him excluding his 3 college games. He’s gonna be great . This team this franchise needs a base player — we’ve tried over the years— maybe we had a short term one with melo or even kp— but we need 1.other things can fall into place.

Plenty of high school tape on him? Like everyone else?

DRb had a ton of fundamentals and honed them quite nicely. It'll be interesting to see if this guy is David Robinson or Olowokandi

We're do we get this outside shot thing? The dude shot form has been erratic to go with a bad shot selection. I don't see this "post" game every one else does. Compare his footage to guys like Embiid and Ayton in college. His post game is really rudimentary. And there are things that other scouts have pointed out like his bad hands. Throw his stats out because 66% percent of those games came against borderline DII programs. I wish we could say that he improved throughout the season, but we don't have that data. Yes he has a nice physical profile, but so did Kwame Brown.

Andre Drummond basically sucked at UConn was drafted 9 but was way better than that. Wiseman has MUCH more offensive polish than Drummond today. This will be a colossal fail of a prognostication by wasserman. I hope we get to see a private workout video at some point.


I'd argue that he doesn't have more polish than Drummond. Drummond realized that early on that it wasn't in his best interest to take fadeway Js, so he didn't take them. Wiseman takes them, but might not make enough of them to consider a strength. What would you prefer? Wiseman, just like Andre, would absolutely jump off the draft board in another era. But Wiseman doesn't fit today's perimeter oriented game. When you look at Wiseman and Mitch, the only reason you choose Wiseman is because you think his offense is significantly better. But it isn't and his defensive versatility isn't close to Mitch's. If you draft Wiseman as a project, that's cool. When you consider there are other prospects out there with a ceiling that's just as high, or higher, that fit positional needs, then it doesn't make sense for us to take Wiseman that high.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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SupremeCommander
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4/1/2020  9:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/1/2020  9:42 PM
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I have no problem taking Wiseman and I also don’t mind trading up for him.

There is a huge difference between Robinson at 24 and Wiseman at 19, 20 though. It’s not fair to Wiseman. With that said, when Briggs is hellbent on a player, I tend to take him seriously. Even in todays game, having a star center is so much bigger than having a PG who can’t shoot.

For every David Robinson comparison there is Hasheem Thabeet

so here is where it is tough. most of the 'best college player ever' threads that are written today are complete and utter BS. you know it. i know it. briggs plants flags everywhere so he can bump his Bynum thread six years later. that said, if this were 20 years ago we would not question Wiseman as a top prospect. the guy can play. I will also tell you that he was the player I was most excited to watch in the conference and tournament play. Wiseman had a **** ton of hype. maybe that makes him closer to OJ Mayo than David Robinson but I was excited to see it unfold one way or another

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
Allanfan20
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4/1/2020  9:44 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I have no problem taking Wiseman and I also don’t mind trading up for him.

There is a huge difference between Robinson at 24 and Wiseman at 19, 20 though. It’s not fair to Wiseman. With that said, when Briggs is hellbent on a player, I tend to take him seriously. Even in todays game, having a star center is so much bigger than having a PG who can’t shoot.

For every David Robinson comparison there is Hasheem Thabeet

and a BJ Mullens

OK and who was Markelle Fultz compared to? You KNOW Ball or Cole or even Haliburton will be better than Wiseman?

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
SupremeCommander
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4/1/2020  9:46 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I have no problem taking Wiseman and I also don’t mind trading up for him.

There is a huge difference between Robinson at 24 and Wiseman at 19, 20 though. It’s not fair to Wiseman. With that said, when Briggs is hellbent on a player, I tend to take him seriously. Even in todays game, having a star center is so much bigger than having a PG who can’t shoot.

For every David Robinson comparison there is Hasheem Thabeet

and a BJ Mullens

OK and who was Markelle Fultz compared to? You KNOW Ball or Cole or even Haliburton will be better than Wiseman?

if there ever was a draft to 'trade down' this would be it

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
BRIGGS
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4/1/2020  10:36 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
martin wrote:
Allanfan20 wrote:I have no problem taking Wiseman and I also don’t mind trading up for him.

There is a huge difference between Robinson at 24 and Wiseman at 19, 20 though. It’s not fair to Wiseman. With that said, when Briggs is hellbent on a player, I tend to take him seriously. Even in todays game, having a star center is so much bigger than having a PG who can’t shoot.

For every David Robinson comparison there is Hasheem Thabeet

and a BJ Mullens

OK and who was Markelle Fultz compared to? You KNOW Ball or Cole or even Haliburton will be better than Wiseman?

if there ever was a draft to 'trade down' this would be it

I like Wiseman and feel super good about it. A+++. I have Killian Hayes top 5 to— he’s gonna be great. Back on picks 25/34 I want good player/ character guys if we keep the picks.

RIP Crushalot😞
Nalod
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4/1/2020  11:08 PM
Briggs got it all covered.

On a separate note there is no reason to trade Mitch, we can develop both until such time a great offer is accepted or time to make a deal. Take the beast player available. If conviction is high, then trade up. Trade down? Is that proprietary to knicks or do other teams think so also? If so, deals will not be easy.

franco12
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4/2/2020  9:02 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:it's rare that Briggs and I agree at the top of the draft, for example, Beasley over Rose. That said I tend to agree with him here. While I do not like that he can't shoot a three, he has everything else. He also seems to understand how to play and that makes sense considering he has been coached by Penny Hardaway for most of his competitive years

Has the same body athletiscm left handed like D Robinson. Already 7-1 251 at the same age Robinson was 6-9 215. Has nice shooting touch which is rare for a big man. Looks a lot like chris bosh shooting but he’s bigger stronger more athletic. He’s going to be good from day 1. Live mitch but he doesn’t have the offensive game wiseman has. He can be a center piece The Knicks need a center piece just so badly.i don’t have to guess here with him. Like Dallas I’d pay up to get him if at all possible.

Why are you projecting this guy to be a sure-fire HOF like player when no one else is even close to that?

His deficiencies? Dude has 3 games under his belt

I think he’s a player we can build around. I look at his measurables 7-1 251 7-6 wingspan his lefty jump shot his post moves his athletic ability speed up the floor— he reminds me of david Robinson. Not many lefty prospects like him in the last twenty years. Plenty of tape on him excluding his 3 college games. He’s gonna be great . This team this franchise needs a base player — we’ve tried over the years— maybe we had a short term one with melo or even kp— but we need 1.other things can fall into place.

Plenty of high school tape on him? Like everyone else?

DRb had a ton of fundamentals and honed them quite nicely. It'll be interesting to see if this guy is David Robinson or Olowokandi

We're do we get this outside shot thing? The dude shot form has been erratic to go with a bad shot selection. I don't see this "post" game every one else does. Compare his footage to guys like Embiid and Ayton in college. His post game is really rudimentary. And there are things that other scouts have pointed out like his bad hands. Throw his stats out because 66% percent of those games came against borderline DII programs. I wish we could say that he improved throughout the season, but we don't have that data. Yes he has a nice physical profile, but so did Kwame Brown.

Andre Drummond basically sucked at UConn was drafted 9 but was way better than that. Wiseman has MUCH more offensive polish than Drummond today. This will be a colossal fail of a prognostication by wasserman. I hope we get to see a private workout video at some point.


I'd argue that he doesn't have more polish than Drummond. Drummond realized that early on that it wasn't in his best interest to take fadeway Js, so he didn't take them. Wiseman takes them, but might not make enough of them to consider a strength. What would you prefer? Wiseman, just like Andre, would absolutely jump off the draft board in another era. But Wiseman doesn't fit today's perimeter oriented game. When you look at Wiseman and Mitch, the only reason you choose Wiseman is because you think his offense is significantly better. But it isn't and his defensive versatility isn't close to Mitch's. If you draft Wiseman as a project, that's cool. When you consider there are other prospects out there with a ceiling that's just as high, or higher, that fit positional needs, then it doesn't make sense for us to take Wiseman that high.

After watching that video, no way do I want to take Wiseman. I know these things can be taken out of context, but he looks so much worse than mitch.

Physical talent is more than simply being tall and muscular. It's about coordination, dexterity. Dude looks super clumsy.

The thing I love about Mitch is he doesn't take shots he can't make. He doesn't need to.

I'd look to take PGs with our picks. Unless there is some better player available by a wide margin.

BRIGGS
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4/2/2020  9:56 AM
franco12 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:it's rare that Briggs and I agree at the top of the draft, for example, Beasley over Rose. That said I tend to agree with him here. While I do not like that he can't shoot a three, he has everything else. He also seems to understand how to play and that makes sense considering he has been coached by Penny Hardaway for most of his competitive years

Has the same body athletiscm left handed like D Robinson. Already 7-1 251 at the same age Robinson was 6-9 215. Has nice shooting touch which is rare for a big man. Looks a lot like chris bosh shooting but he’s bigger stronger more athletic. He’s going to be good from day 1. Live mitch but he doesn’t have the offensive game wiseman has. He can be a center piece The Knicks need a center piece just so badly.i don’t have to guess here with him. Like Dallas I’d pay up to get him if at all possible.

Why are you projecting this guy to be a sure-fire HOF like player when no one else is even close to that?

His deficiencies? Dude has 3 games under his belt

I think he’s a player we can build around. I look at his measurables 7-1 251 7-6 wingspan his lefty jump shot his post moves his athletic ability speed up the floor— he reminds me of david Robinson. Not many lefty prospects like him in the last twenty years. Plenty of tape on him excluding his 3 college games. He’s gonna be great . This team this franchise needs a base player — we’ve tried over the years— maybe we had a short term one with melo or even kp— but we need 1.other things can fall into place.

Plenty of high school tape on him? Like everyone else?

DRb had a ton of fundamentals and honed them quite nicely. It'll be interesting to see if this guy is David Robinson or Olowokandi

We're do we get this outside shot thing? The dude shot form has been erratic to go with a bad shot selection. I don't see this "post" game every one else does. Compare his footage to guys like Embiid and Ayton in college. His post game is really rudimentary. And there are things that other scouts have pointed out like his bad hands. Throw his stats out because 66% percent of those games came against borderline DII programs. I wish we could say that he improved throughout the season, but we don't have that data. Yes he has a nice physical profile, but so did Kwame Brown.

Andre Drummond basically sucked at UConn was drafted 9 but was way better than that. Wiseman has MUCH more offensive polish than Drummond today. This will be a colossal fail of a prognostication by wasserman. I hope we get to see a private workout video at some point.


I'd argue that he doesn't have more polish than Drummond. Drummond realized that early on that it wasn't in his best interest to take fadeway Js, so he didn't take them. Wiseman takes them, but might not make enough of them to consider a strength. What would you prefer? Wiseman, just like Andre, would absolutely jump off the draft board in another era. But Wiseman doesn't fit today's perimeter oriented game. When you look at Wiseman and Mitch, the only reason you choose Wiseman is because you think his offense is significantly better. But it isn't and his defensive versatility isn't close to Mitch's. If you draft Wiseman as a project, that's cool. When you consider there are other prospects out there with a ceiling that's just as high, or higher, that fit positional needs, then it doesn't make sense for us to take Wiseman that high.

After watching that video, no way do I want to take Wiseman. I know these things can be taken out of context, but he looks so much worse than mitch.

Physical talent is more than simply being tall and muscular. It's about coordination, dexterity. Dude looks super clumsy.

The thing I love about Mitch is he doesn't take shots he can't make. He doesn't need to.

I'd look to take PGs with our picks. Unless there is some better player available by a wide margin.

Difference between mitch and Wiseman. I understand what u r saying/- is it enough to draft over mitch so to speak. The answer— my answer is yes. Wiseman will end up at 265-270 a number that would take away mitch’s game. The biggie is that at that bigger size he has a much more advanced offensive game. He’s got great form and solid footwork. Tgis will end up being a massive difference between the two. I’m certainly not opposed to having both on my team— San Antonio won a title with Robinson and Duncan. In the first set of players. I’m very high on 3 players. Killian Hayes Obi Toppin abd Wiseman( the latter as pick 1. Each one has efficient fundamental offense that I believe Translate to the nba well. For example watch Killian Hayes release his jump shot versus Halliburton. Hayes jumpsuit will be able to translate I’m not sure about Halliburton. Hayes has more hops( like toppin abd wiseman) than his pg counterparts and I could see some teams who need a pg take Hayes even as high as pick 1 if they do don’t have a center etc..


But getting back to wiseman. If you feel an athletic 7-1 265 pound athletic fundamentals sound offensive lefty player who I believe has 25-10 potential can’t help any team. I think they are missing it.

RIP Crushalot😞
SupremeCommander
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4/2/2020  10:16 AM
franco12 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:it's rare that Briggs and I agree at the top of the draft, for example, Beasley over Rose. That said I tend to agree with him here. While I do not like that he can't shoot a three, he has everything else. He also seems to understand how to play and that makes sense considering he has been coached by Penny Hardaway for most of his competitive years

Has the same body athletiscm left handed like D Robinson. Already 7-1 251 at the same age Robinson was 6-9 215. Has nice shooting touch which is rare for a big man. Looks a lot like chris bosh shooting but he’s bigger stronger more athletic. He’s going to be good from day 1. Live mitch but he doesn’t have the offensive game wiseman has. He can be a center piece The Knicks need a center piece just so badly.i don’t have to guess here with him. Like Dallas I’d pay up to get him if at all possible.

Why are you projecting this guy to be a sure-fire HOF like player when no one else is even close to that?

His deficiencies? Dude has 3 games under his belt

I think he’s a player we can build around. I look at his measurables 7-1 251 7-6 wingspan his lefty jump shot his post moves his athletic ability speed up the floor— he reminds me of david Robinson. Not many lefty prospects like him in the last twenty years. Plenty of tape on him excluding his 3 college games. He’s gonna be great . This team this franchise needs a base player — we’ve tried over the years— maybe we had a short term one with melo or even kp— but we need 1.other things can fall into place.

Plenty of high school tape on him? Like everyone else?

DRb had a ton of fundamentals and honed them quite nicely. It'll be interesting to see if this guy is David Robinson or Olowokandi

We're do we get this outside shot thing? The dude shot form has been erratic to go with a bad shot selection. I don't see this "post" game every one else does. Compare his footage to guys like Embiid and Ayton in college. His post game is really rudimentary. And there are things that other scouts have pointed out like his bad hands. Throw his stats out because 66% percent of those games came against borderline DII programs. I wish we could say that he improved throughout the season, but we don't have that data. Yes he has a nice physical profile, but so did Kwame Brown.

Andre Drummond basically sucked at UConn was drafted 9 but was way better than that. Wiseman has MUCH more offensive polish than Drummond today. This will be a colossal fail of a prognostication by wasserman. I hope we get to see a private workout video at some point.


I'd argue that he doesn't have more polish than Drummond. Drummond realized that early on that it wasn't in his best interest to take fadeway Js, so he didn't take them. Wiseman takes them, but might not make enough of them to consider a strength. What would you prefer? Wiseman, just like Andre, would absolutely jump off the draft board in another era. But Wiseman doesn't fit today's perimeter oriented game. When you look at Wiseman and Mitch, the only reason you choose Wiseman is because you think his offense is significantly better. But it isn't and his defensive versatility isn't close to Mitch's. If you draft Wiseman as a project, that's cool. When you consider there are other prospects out there with a ceiling that's just as high, or higher, that fit positional needs, then it doesn't make sense for us to take Wiseman that high.

After watching that video, no way do I want to take Wiseman. I know these things can be taken out of context, but he looks so much worse than mitch.

Physical talent is more than simply being tall and muscular. It's about coordination, dexterity. Dude looks super clumsy.

The thing I love about Mitch is he doesn't take shots he can't make. He doesn't need to.

I'd look to take PGs with our picks. Unless there is some better player available by a wide margin.

We don't really know what to expect from Wiseman. I really wanted to see him in conference and NCAA tourney. The guy was the top prospect heading into the NCAA this year. Penny Hardaway got the job at Memphis and said they were gonna win teh tournament in large part because he got Wiseman. Penny had been the top AAU coach in the country IMHO so his opinion matters more to me than most rookie HCs

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
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4/2/2020  10:28 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
franco12 wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:it's rare that Briggs and I agree at the top of the draft, for example, Beasley over Rose. That said I tend to agree with him here. While I do not like that he can't shoot a three, he has everything else. He also seems to understand how to play and that makes sense considering he has been coached by Penny Hardaway for most of his competitive years

Has the same body athletiscm left handed like D Robinson. Already 7-1 251 at the same age Robinson was 6-9 215. Has nice shooting touch which is rare for a big man. Looks a lot like chris bosh shooting but he’s bigger stronger more athletic. He’s going to be good from day 1. Live mitch but he doesn’t have the offensive game wiseman has. He can be a center piece The Knicks need a center piece just so badly.i don’t have to guess here with him. Like Dallas I’d pay up to get him if at all possible.

Why are you projecting this guy to be a sure-fire HOF like player when no one else is even close to that?

His deficiencies? Dude has 3 games under his belt

I think he’s a player we can build around. I look at his measurables 7-1 251 7-6 wingspan his lefty jump shot his post moves his athletic ability speed up the floor— he reminds me of david Robinson. Not many lefty prospects like him in the last twenty years. Plenty of tape on him excluding his 3 college games. He’s gonna be great . This team this franchise needs a base player — we’ve tried over the years— maybe we had a short term one with melo or even kp— but we need 1.other things can fall into place.

Plenty of high school tape on him? Like everyone else?

DRb had a ton of fundamentals and honed them quite nicely. It'll be interesting to see if this guy is David Robinson or Olowokandi

We're do we get this outside shot thing? The dude shot form has been erratic to go with a bad shot selection. I don't see this "post" game every one else does. Compare his footage to guys like Embiid and Ayton in college. His post game is really rudimentary. And there are things that other scouts have pointed out like his bad hands. Throw his stats out because 66% percent of those games came against borderline DII programs. I wish we could say that he improved throughout the season, but we don't have that data. Yes he has a nice physical profile, but so did Kwame Brown.

Andre Drummond basically sucked at UConn was drafted 9 but was way better than that. Wiseman has MUCH more offensive polish than Drummond today. This will be a colossal fail of a prognostication by wasserman. I hope we get to see a private workout video at some point.


I'd argue that he doesn't have more polish than Drummond. Drummond realized that early on that it wasn't in his best interest to take fadeway Js, so he didn't take them. Wiseman takes them, but might not make enough of them to consider a strength. What would you prefer? Wiseman, just like Andre, would absolutely jump off the draft board in another era. But Wiseman doesn't fit today's perimeter oriented game. When you look at Wiseman and Mitch, the only reason you choose Wiseman is because you think his offense is significantly better. But it isn't and his defensive versatility isn't close to Mitch's. If you draft Wiseman as a project, that's cool. When you consider there are other prospects out there with a ceiling that's just as high, or higher, that fit positional needs, then it doesn't make sense for us to take Wiseman that high.

After watching that video, no way do I want to take Wiseman. I know these things can be taken out of context, but he looks so much worse than mitch.

Physical talent is more than simply being tall and muscular. It's about coordination, dexterity. Dude looks super clumsy.

The thing I love about Mitch is he doesn't take shots he can't make. He doesn't need to.

I'd look to take PGs with our picks. Unless there is some better player available by a wide margin.

We don't really know what to expect from Wiseman. I really wanted to see him in conference and NCAA tourney. The guy was the top prospect heading into the NCAA this year. Penny Hardaway got the job at Memphis and said they were gonna win teh tournament in large part because he got Wiseman. Penny had been the top AAU coach in the country IMHO so his opinion matters more to me than most rookie HCs

Sc— you would’ve never seen Wiseman in any tourney. He quit Memphis after 3 games.

RIP Crushalot😞
Chandler
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4/2/2020  11:02 AM
the achilles heel for many modern big man is an ability to guard the perimeter. Mitch can do that at an elite level for a big man. Can Wiseman?

How does Wiseman compare to Jahlil Okafor?

(5)(5)
BRIGGS
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4/2/2020  12:02 PM
Chandler wrote:the achilles heel for many modern big man is an ability to guard the perimeter. Mitch can do that at an elite level for a big man. Can Wiseman?

How does Wiseman compare to Jahlil Okafor?

Not at all. But I’d be interested in ok4 if we don’t end up w wiseman as a back up to mitch

RIP Crushalot😞
James Wiseman= David Robinson

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