fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:so holy crap... the Knicks drafted Kenny Walker with 5th pick in 1986. Since then, their top 7 picks of the draft: Gallo at #6 in 2008, KP at #4 in 2015 and RJ in at #3 in 2019.

That ****ing Curry trade is what really did the Knicks in.

Ah yes. Fucking popcorn man killing the Knicks.

EDIT:
Just saw this. Warning. Very depressing read.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934735-where-did-all-the-ny-knicks-draft-picks-go

OMG, it's been pathetic, we can't draft to save our lives..

were better off trading our picks if this is the BS we're going to do with them

Isiah Thomas said exactly the same thing! I can see great minds think alike

This is coming from a guy who said Rose and Bledsoe suck, and would rather have frank

the same guy who said KP was a lock to resign

Rose does suck. KP did resign, just not with us, and I suspect you dont even know what team Bledsoe plays for, even with google

Rose is 4th among guards in the all star voting(google it if you know how)

Your favorite boy frank has 4 total votes, one from you, his mother, his brother, and mills..lol

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

martin wrote:so holy crap... the Knicks drafted Kenny Walker with 5th pick in 1986. Since then, their top 7 picks of the draft: Gallo at #6 in 2008, KP at #4 in 2015 and RJ in at #3 in 2019.

That ****ing Curry trade is what really did the Knicks in.

Ah yes. Fucking popcorn man killing the Knicks.

EDIT:
Just saw this. Warning. Very depressing read.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1934735-where-did-all-the-ny-knicks-draft-picks-go

OMG, it's been pathetic, we can't draft to save our lives..

were better off trading our picks if this is the BS we're going to do with them

Isiah Thomas said exactly the same thing! I can see great minds think alike

This is coming from a guy who said Rose and Bledsoe suck, and would rather have frank

the same guy who said KP was a lock to resign

Rose does suck. KP did resign, just not with us, and I suspect you dont even know what team Bledsoe plays for, even with google

Rose is 4th among guards in the all star voting(google it if you know how)

Your favorite boy frank has 4 total votes, one from you, his mother, his brother, and mills..lol

Your deflections are child like.
what you really don't get is its not about Martin, fishmike or you. Its not about which fan is right or not. You seem to rather enjoy the idiocy of your fandom or anyone else's are relevant. They are not to any knick process.

Your comprehension has been noted before as not being accurate. What makes you like the worst thread poster is you never say "oops, I misread that". We all do BTW but not you. You double down and then when all is gone you deflect.
Rose getting allstar votes does not validate his on court play. It validates his popularity.
The article was about knicks making trades (Like what you advocate for) and the lost opportunities over time because of it.
You have no faith in the FO which is understandable but your fixation on Mills does not allow you the clarity to see he is doing things different than his predecessors. The results are not apparent which make it very hard to see past the present.

Put me in for one of the four votes for frank. Many fans like Frank a lot and want to see him do well. That's not the same as saying he will be great one day.

JamesKPolk wrote:What the Knicks need most (other than Dolan selling the team) is to fire the entire front office:

Steve Mills
Scott Perry
Craig Robinson
Jamie Matthews
Allan Houston
Gerald Madkins

It's time to all go and start fresh with a legitimate executive like a Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri.

You forgot World Peace and feeding all of the little children of the planet

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:What the Knicks need most (other than Dolan selling the team) is to fire the entire front office:

Steve Mills
Scott Perry
Craig Robinson
Jamie Matthews
Allan Houston
Gerald Madkins

It's time to all go and start fresh with a legitimate executive like a Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri.

You forgot World Peace and feeding all of the little children of the planet

Hey look, it's the guy who gives "kudos" to the front office and doesn't want to see them fired trying to be cute.

If I'm not mistaken, you were also an Isiah guy. Looks like you know how to choose your allegiances well.

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:What the Knicks need most (other than Dolan selling the team) is to fire the entire front office:

Steve Mills
Scott Perry
Craig Robinson
Jamie Matthews
Allan Houston
Gerald Madkins

It's time to all go and start fresh with a legitimate executive like a Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri.

You forgot World Peace and feeding all of the little children of the planet

Hey look, it's the guy who gives "kudos" to the front office and doesn't want to see them fired trying to be cute.

If I'm not mistaken, you were also an Isiah guy. Looks like you know how to choose your allegiances well.

I don't care if they get fired or not. I have no skin in that game. We'll hire somebody who built up a different team in a different city and confront the realities of NY. Rinse and repeat. I think winning in the NBA is hard. Many, many stars need to align.

Yes, I defended Isiah and I criticized Isiah. I applauded the risks he took. He played and administered to win. It didn't work.

He should have let Larry Brown do his thing for the duration of his contract - *that* was a big mistake, IMO.

If only I had you as a boss - fail miserably repeatedly and chalk it up to bad luck and risk taking and all is forgiven.

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:What the Knicks need most (other than Dolan selling the team) is to fire the entire front office:

Steve Mills
Scott Perry
Craig Robinson
Jamie Matthews
Allan Houston
Gerald Madkins

It's time to all go and start fresh with a legitimate executive like a Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri.

You forgot World Peace and feeding all of the little children of the planet

Hey look, it's the guy who gives "kudos" to the front office and doesn't want to see them fired trying to be cute.

If I'm not mistaken, you were also an Isiah guy. Looks like you know how to choose your allegiances well.

I don't care if they get fired or not. I have no skin in that game. We'll hire somebody who built up a different team in a different city and confront the realities of NY. Rinse and repeat. I think winning in the NBA is hard. Many, many stars need to align.

Yes, I defended Isiah and I criticized Isiah. I applauded the risks he took. He played and administered to win. It didn't work.

He should have let Larry Brown do his thing for the duration of his contract - *that* was a big mistake, IMO.

If only I had you as a boss - fail miserably repeatedly and chalk it up to bad luck and risk taking and all is forgiven.

Look, The Knicks "failure" in recent years can be explained by just a few factors. First, the Nineties Knicks succeeded thanks to a bottomless checkbook. When the Salary Cap kicked in, the Knicks (and others) ignored the consequences until it was too late (e.g. the Allan Houston contract).

Subsequent FOs inherited the mess of expensive, unmovable contracts, and a diminishing talent pool. Draft picks were treated like rodents to be eliminated as fast as possible.

And the risks they took on players like Curry, Bargnani, Melo, and the KP brothers and the long term costs of those acquisitions were toxic through and through. But that's not on the Knicks. That's on the players who to this day are unpredictable, disingenuous, and incapable of managing being multi-millionaires in NYC.

Despite all that, the Knicks remain maybe the most valuable sports asset on the planet. Trying and failing still is an honorable outcome when you are aiming high.

This is a joke, right?

Acquiring players who aren't good is not on the Knicks? So what's your standard of grading for a good organization? How much money its making?

The Knicks are arguably the worst team in professional sports today and have been for the better part of 2 decades and you claim that most of it is just luck and not their fault that they acquired lousy players and made awful management and coaching decisions.

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:What the Knicks need most (other than Dolan selling the team) is to fire the entire front office:

Steve Mills
Scott Perry
Craig Robinson
Jamie Matthews
Allan Houston
Gerald Madkins

It's time to all go and start fresh with a legitimate executive like a Sam Presti or Masai Ujiri.

You forgot World Peace and feeding all of the little children of the planet

Hey look, it's the guy who gives "kudos" to the front office and doesn't want to see them fired trying to be cute.

If I'm not mistaken, you were also an Isiah guy. Looks like you know how to choose your allegiances well.

I don't care if they get fired or not. I have no skin in that game. We'll hire somebody who built up a different team in a different city and confront the realities of NY. Rinse and repeat. I think winning in the NBA is hard. Many, many stars need to align.

Yes, I defended Isiah and I criticized Isiah. I applauded the risks he took. He played and administered to win. It didn't work.

He should have let Larry Brown do his thing for the duration of his contract - *that* was a big mistake, IMO.

If only I had you as a boss - fail miserably repeatedly and chalk it up to bad luck and risk taking and all is forgiven.

Look, The Knicks "failure" in recent years can be explained by just a few factors. First, the Nineties Knicks succeeded thanks to a bottomless checkbook. When the Salary Cap kicked in, the Knicks (and others) ignored the consequences until it was too late (e.g. the Allan Houston contract).

Subsequent FOs inherited the mess of expensive, unmovable contracts, and a diminishing talent pool. Draft picks were treated like rodents to be eliminated as fast as possible.

And the risks they took on players like Curry, Bargnani, Melo, and the KP brothers and the long term costs of those acquisitions were toxic through and through. But that's not on the Knicks. That's on the players who to this day are unpredictable, disingenuous, and incapable of managing being multi-millionaires in NYC.

Despite all that, the Knicks remain maybe the most valuable sports asset on the planet. Trying and failing still is an honorable outcome when you are aiming high.

This is a joke, right?

Acquiring players who aren't good is not on the Knicks? So what's your standard of grading for a good organization? How much money its making?

The Knicks are arguably the worst team in professional sports today and have been for the better part of 2 decades and you claim that most of it is just luck and not their fault that they acquired lousy players and made awful management and coaching decisions.

You should lend some of your magic pixie dust to the Knicks - never a mistake, always a happy ending.

Mistakes happen.

When they happen for 20 years under the same ownership then that’s simply incompetence.

Not sure how you rate organizations in terms of respectability but the Knicks are at the bottom for a reason.

Nalod wrote:The issue for fans is we need hope. Its a generic issue with losing teams. Cries for new coach, and of course new management.
We want Presti and Ujiri but not thinking thru the 5 or so years before they took over what the conditions were for them to have assets to turn it around. Presti? Miserable years in Seattle. Ujiri took over a Denver’s team that had very good leadership in the years leading up to. Leadership in terms of setting the team in a direction. They did good things before and good things after Ujiri left. Its continuance of a plan.
Knicks panic and hit the reset button. If we do bring in an open concept “anyone is better than Mills” then what is the plan might be even as important as “who”. Burn assets ala Isiah? The years leading up to Isiah taking over had a lot to do with what Isiah did. Layden had a boring team becauase they were letting contracts expire and had few picks. Thats the boring stuff few fans are willing to look into.
You can starphuch all you want about hiring a “Savior” but the realities are not quite as easy as that. Ujiri and Presti are unlikely. Who then? Another mythical Spurs guy?
I’ll even go one further, you think Nets plan is not influenced by their new owner? They build that culture over time and was patience then they bring in crack head Kyrie and Broken Durant. This is about next year but even without Durant they should be improving upon last years evolution. That was an owner meddling in who wants a chip. ITs damn good business btw for Joe Thai to do that. He can steal NYC and grab China. Durant’s and Kyrie marketing to China with a chip is very lucrative proposal and the owner of Alibaba can make all kinds of things happen. don’t think that was not on their plate when they decided to sign with Nets!

Cuban provides entrepreneurial opportunities and leadership, Steve Balmer runs a first rate shop and reconstituted the Clippers into a well run team. Dolan panics when things go wrong.
You have a leadership team in place seemingly doing most things fundamentally correct. KP was a hard decision. I won’t deny the results but we could argue is mills accountable for the PHil Jax era. What fundamental process is failing the Knicks that need to be changed? Its a results driven world and the results are not arguable. They suck. But in retrospect you have to break down each decision that got you here and then actualize what was a bad decision, bad luck, missed opportunity, negligence, and what could have been a better or worse outcome.

I doubt some of you are doing this. I scratch the surface. BUt before I go off thinking a savior is gonna save the day I have to ask myself what are the assets and decisions they will face because each regime, each season, each free agent class, and each draft all hold different variables than any from the past. Thus management is not as easily transferable like an athlete in his prime is.