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smackeddog wrote:

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https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1215345954183958529

I can't recall if there was news of meniscus or cartilage damage with KP's knee when he had the ACL but PRP is typically the first step when there is... and on a 24 year old this is not good long term

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1215345954183958529

I can't recall if there was news of meniscus or cartilage damage with KP's knee when he had the ACL but PRP is typically the first step when there is... and on a 24 year old this is not good long term

Not good at all, though mavs aren’t saying much except ‘knee soreness’. Don’t think him adding weight was a good idea following an ACL tear

Hard to say where that medium point of gaining weight is.... leg strength, good. Over bulk bad

Why the heck didn’t they do load management for him?! This is like recovery 101 for an athlete like KP who has had repeated injuries thru career.

No one can say Dallas is a top organization IMHO, this is a pure **** up

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1215345954183958529

I can't recall if there was news of meniscus or cartilage damage with KP's knee when he had the ACL but PRP is typically the first step when there is... and on a 24 year old this is not good long term

Well damn, apparently this is for the good knee

https://nypost.com/2020/01/09/kristaps-porzingis-knicks-problem-is-surfacing-with-mavericks/

The former Knicks All-Star, who missed all of last season while recovering from surgery to repair a torn ACL in his left knee, recently received a platelet-rich-plasma injection as part of his treatment for a sore right knee, according to ESPN.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1215345954183958529

I can't recall if there was news of meniscus or cartilage damage with KP's knee when he had the ACL but PRP is typically the first step when there is... and on a 24 year old this is not good long term

Well damn, apparently this is for the good knee

https://nypost.com/2020/01/09/kristaps-porzingis-knicks-problem-is-surfacing-with-mavericks/

The former Knicks All-Star, who missed all of last season while recovering from surgery to repair a torn ACL in his left knee, recently received a platelet-rich-plasma injection as part of his treatment for a sore right knee, according to ESPN.

Jury is still out on Smith jr, but even if things dont happen in NY. Two low first round picks, shedding all those contracts, and cap flexibility, is preferable to the yearly questions about KP's durability, and for the max. Nothing has changed in that dept.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil was doing his old man rants about his concerns of him being able to sustain. In the pro ranks Phil was not alone in his concerns. Its not like its a secret the body does not over engineer tendons and ligaments based on length of bones they support. We hated that Phil vocalized it like he was giving away some kind of secret. If you look at the big picture, big guys have not evolved to play like small guys. KP looked like he might. Big guys get bigger and more powerful or they break. Wilt and Kareem were some of the lucky biological anomalies and there has been others. In the past I compared KP to Ralph Sampson who was basically a Durant type body at 7’1 but then they forced bigs into the low pos stil in that era. his legs and back could not sustain.
Willis Reed, Sabonis, and Ewing are examples of guys that were bigs with great athletic ability but slowed down and evolved their games as they filled out. Yao Ming and Bill Walton are two examples of guys whose bodies betrayed them and cut down careers. Walton was amazing! KP is a 7’3 guy with great ability and athletic ability whose skill set already has a great outside shot! HE looked to be the next evolution of the modern player if he could get his handle lower.
The core issue for knicks all along could have been still doubts over the reality of what Phil believed in vs KP believes in his “Drago” belief that he will dominate and thought any less thought of this from the knick was betrayal. One more time: Regrettable circumstances. KP wanted his money. If this happens in the last 25 games of last season, and we all know he’d be a free agent now with a bad knee his trade value would be likely lower than what we got last year. Also his ability to sign long term max might not be all that high.
We still don’t know the future and nothing is clear cut. DSjr looks awful. The cap space if we say was used for Morris and Randle does help but our dismal record just taints it all.

We got a lousy return for KP. He might get hurt again and never play but that doesn't change the fact that the return was lousy. Phil got fired for suggesting we take Devin Booker and a good draft pick for KP. What we got pales in comparison to that. The only real variables in this are whether or not the Mavs got a lousy return (he could blow his knee out or someone could beat him with a barstool), or whether or not we get lucky and the Mavs somehow have a bad season with Doncic and we end up with a great pick (unlikely), or we somehow find the next David Lee (hopeful but...).

I was fine trading KP at the time Phil was trying to, think the possible deals were also to the Bulls for Markenan and their 1st, and the Celtics also offered Jaylen Brown and a pick, but Phil insisted on Jaylen Brown and Tatum (and a pick too I think)- that made me think maybe he wasn't serious, and was just playing mind games/exploring the possibility for he future.

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:I thought it is only going to get worse for the knicks?
Imagine that Phil might have gotten Booker and Markkkkkkkennnnnnen. Dolan fires him for shopping the unicorn. \
I admit, I was horrified at the prospect, and lets face it, Phil was getting bad press on everything.
Remember it was KP tweeting in defiance that he was running springs. ON an out door track. It was KP started filming a docudrama about his return and was boasting 10 months. All knicks wanted was to wait until summer to pay him. Which Dallas did. Hate to wish badly on him and the Mavs but I want those picks to pan out for us!!

phil was fired because he was terrible at his job!

The problem for most of you is that you never heard KP side, so all you can do is assume what the issues were, basically what you know on the surface, but it was more than likely deeper than MONEY

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil was doing his old man rants about his concerns of him being able to sustain. In the pro ranks Phil was not alone in his concerns. Its not like its a secret the body does not over engineer tendons and ligaments based on length of bones they support. We hated that Phil vocalized it like he was giving away some kind of secret. If you look at the big picture, big guys have not evolved to play like small guys. KP looked like he might. Big guys get bigger and more powerful or they break. Wilt and Kareem were some of the lucky biological anomalies and there has been others. In the past I compared KP to Ralph Sampson who was basically a Durant type body at 7’1 but then they forced bigs into the low pos stil in that era. his legs and back could not sustain.
Willis Reed, Sabonis, and Ewing are examples of guys that were bigs with great athletic ability but slowed down and evolved their games as they filled out. Yao Ming and Bill Walton are two examples of guys whose bodies betrayed them and cut down careers. Walton was amazing! KP is a 7’3 guy with great ability and athletic ability whose skill set already has a great outside shot! HE looked to be the next evolution of the modern player if he could get his handle lower.
The core issue for knicks all along could have been still doubts over the reality of what Phil believed in vs KP believes in his “Drago” belief that he will dominate and thought any less thought of this from the knick was betrayal. One more time: Regrettable circumstances. KP wanted his money. If this happens in the last 25 games of last season, and we all know he’d be a free agent now with a bad knee his trade value would be likely lower than what we got last year. Also his ability to sign long term max might not be all that high.
We still don’t know the future and nothing is clear cut. DSjr looks awful. The cap space if we say was used for Morris and Randle does help but our dismal record just taints it all.

We got a lousy return for KP. He might get hurt again and never play but that doesn't change the fact that the return was lousy. Phil got fired for suggesting we take Devin Booker and a good draft pick for KP. What we got pales in comparison to that. The only real variables in this are whether or not the Mavs got a lousy return (he could blow his knee out or someone could beat him with a barstool), or whether or not we get lucky and the Mavs somehow have a bad season with Doncic and we end up with a great pick (unlikely), or we somehow find the next David Lee (hopeful but...).

Well, its lousey relative to trading him after he missed his exit meeting. Trading a diva who decided to apply leverage and NOT PLAY and then return for his contract year does not make for a good trade value either.
Phil was fired for doing a lousy job and then wanting to trade KP at that moment looked even worse. Phil cred was shot at that moment. HE wanted to trade away the only bright star and of course wanted to also exile Melo. But.........the reality was the old crazy coot was right. Its all hindsight. Its Ironic.

Im wholly discounting the Triangle infatuation thing in my hindsight. Im not saying phil did not deserve to go, but the irony of it all is not lost on me. In fact, the longer this plays out the more ironic it gets.

1. KP did break
2. Frank at 21 still might be a hell of a player.

Not all 8 picks are "Stars". Knick fans are all about "stars". Fact is they don't statistically occur

2018 Collin Sexton, Alabama – Cleveland Cavaliers
2017 Frank Ntilikina, France – New York Knicks
2016 Marquese Chriss, Washington – Sacramento Kings
2015 Stanley Johnson, Arizona – Detroit Pistons
2014 Nik Stauskas, Michigan – Sacramento Kings
2013 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Georgia – Detroit Pistons
2012 Terrence Ross, Washington – Toronto Raptors
2011 Brandon Knight, Kentucky – Detroit Pistons
2010 Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest – L.A. Clippers
2009 Jordan Hill, Arizona – New York Knicks
2008 Joe Alexander, West Virginia – Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright, North Carolina – Charlotte Bobcats (Draft rights traded to Golden State Warriors)
2006 Rudy Gay, Connecticut – Houston Rockets (Draft rights traded to Memphis Grizzlies)
2005 Channing Frye, Arizona – New York Knicks
2004 Rafael Araujo, BYU – Toronto Raptors
2003 T.J. Ford, Texas – Milwaukee Buck
2002 Chris Wilcox, Maryland – L.A. Clippers
2001 DeSagana Diop, Oak Hill Academy (Va.) – Cleveland Cavaliers
2000 Jamal Crawford, Michigan – Cleveland Cavaliers
1999 Andre Miller UtahSr. Cleveland
1998 Larry Hughes Saint Louis Philadelphia
1997 Adonal Foyle Colgate Golden State
1996 Kerry Kittles Villanova New Jersey
1995 Shawn Respert Michigan State Portland
1994 Brian Grant Xavier (Ohio) Sacramento
1993 Vin Baker Hartford Milwaukee
1992 Todd Day Arkansas Milwaukee
1991 Mark Macon Temple Denver
1990 Bo Kimble Loyola Marymount LA Clippers
1989 Randy White Louisiana Tech Dallas
1988 Rex Chapman Kentucky Hornets
1987 Olden Polynice Virginia Chicago
1986 Ron Harper Miami(OH) Cleveland
1985 Detlef Schrempf Washington Dallas
1984 Lancaster Gordon Louisville LA Clippers
1983 Antoine Carr Wichita State Detroit
1982 Clark Kellogg Ohio State Indiana
1981 Tom Chambers Utah San Diego
1980 Andrew Toney SW Louisiana Philadelphia

what you also have are complete careers in most cases. Jamal Crawford 2.5 years into his career was not the same as his last years in the NBA were he was touted super sub. Andre Miller was a great pick. Some were pretty good but Injuries derailed the career. TJ ford 40 years of picks and not one in the HOF! few all stars in fact. Some were great early but faded like Foyle and Rex Chapman. Larry Hughes was a great player for a bit as was Brian Grant.

Frank is 21 and his story is hardly finished.

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2020/01/16/mavs-kristaps-porzingis-misses-ninth-consecutive-game-transforming-minor-concern-to-genuine-worry/

“We’ll see,” Mavericks head coach Rick Carlisle said. "Hopefully he feels better tomorrow and we’ll just continue to move forward and hope he continues to feel better. He was doing real well on a day-to-day basis. It just didn’t feel quite right before the game.

“So we’re not messing with it.”

After Tuesday’s victory over Golden State in San Francisco, Porzingis said the soreness had gone away and had not returned during or after ramped up activity.

But when he took the court to warm up for Wednesday’s game, pain and discomfort returned. He said he informed Mavericks director of player health and performance Casey Smith, who made the decision to scratch Porzingis from the lineup.

“Just a little bit of pain in certain movements,” Porzingis said. “Didn’t feel that good out there. Casey made the decision to take some more time.

“It felt great yesterday. I had a solid workout, 25 or 30 minutes. Felt good. Didn’t feel any sharp pain or anything like that. And today I kind of felt it a little bit when I started warming up. I felt it more and more and I told the medical staff.”