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Alright fine I'll make the game thread!
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NYKBocker
Posts: 37879
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
11/14/2019  11:11 AM
Chandler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.
I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

YES.

And this is messing with Ntilikina's head and game. Fizdale keeps trying to make Randall and Morris into something they are not during games that count.

It is not Knox who should be playing SF but Dot or RJ... whatever but get Dot into the mix. He too plays D.

I'm at wit's end with Fizdale - basketball lunacy game after game.

Hate to dissapoint but running more PnR's with Frank won't change things. Agree that biggest issue right now is with Randle. He is simply putting way to much on his shoulders. Guy plays like if he doesn't score every time he will lose his job. Ironically, he is the only one guaranteed a long term deal.
You look at last nights game and Taj was better for the team.

Would like to see Frank just put in to guard the best offensive player on the other team. The way OKC used Roberson. Thought Fiz was getting him in once White hit 2 threes. Unfortunately, White hit another and when Frank came in he was also unable to stop him. Don't think Frank even likes to be a focus point on offense. Have to give Smith more minutes to get back into shape. He showed some good spots last night but still seems to be forcing things and without confidence. I would like to see him focus on driving and creating for other and only look to score by going strong to hoop and draw fouls. In regards to Portis and Randle, agree that Fiz should go with either Portis or Randle depending on who is playing best team ball. But never both of them. If neither playing well then go with Taj. At least he passes and plays Defense, In those cases go small with RJ, Morris or Knox at 4.,

Been trying to get in on the convo but had to drive all day smh.

I am leaning toward agreeing with you on this especially off what he displayed last night.

Still would like to see some type of plan of action towards this though. Our bigs don't set screens in order to free up the PGs to penetrate. They set slip screens more than anything in order to recieve the ball back. Spacing is also a huge issue the paint ALWAYS looks croweded.

Some more of this is all I am asking for. No reason we shouldn't see this run a few times a game with all of our guards.

Spread floor opening up the paint, somewhat of a pick to free up the guard. Trier played it right found Gibson who found Portis for the high % corner three from Portis who was a 40% 3pt shooter before he became an instabum with us. Pulled it off with a 5 seconds in the shot clock. As if there was more time and White was able to recover in time. Knox was wide open as well. This is better utilization of guys like Gibson and Portis and Randle. As well as more PG friendly with the lane not as congested.


I have mixed views about the PnR aspect. I have a very tough time seeing Frank being some ISO, beat his man off the dribble, type. However, I can see him in PnR more because whether slip screen or otherwise i think first and foremost he is looking (too much) to facilitate another player. It may be a bit of pop-psychology but i think it would be easier to convince Frank he will help his teammates by mastering the PnR. I can see Mitch, Randle and Morris all benefitting from this whether PnR or pick and pop

I also think he should be initiating the offense way more. He's tall and can see things better. At present he dumps ball off to Randle or RJ and then hides in a corner where he can't even help spacing because they never pass it to him to keep teams honest and if they did he'd probably miss as he's not that type of shooter. Makes no sense for Randle or Morris to initiate -- they're liabilities in that role

When RJ is on the floor it's a tougher question and we need to find some way for Frank to contribute on O when RJ is initiating the offense

Frank is a PnR PG. Just watch his clips with KP or his play with France in FIBA. He needs bigs that know how to set a ****ing pick. One thing about KP, dude sets a great pick. He doesn't release right away and knows how to read a roll or a pop. Same with Gobert. The only big we have that knows how to set a pick is Gibson. I am hoping he can rub off on Mitch. Randle never ever sticks his picks.

Also, Fizdale never calls a PnR play for Frank. However, he calls them for DSJr no problem. He actually called a double screen for DSJr in the last game.

The problem with Frank is he runs the play that his coach calls. It puts him in a bad position since he is not a natural break the play and be aggressive kind of player. That's why you see Trier and Mudiay last year get his shots up. I would really like to see Frank just say..screw it..i am calling my own damn play. One can only hope.

I have a feeling that the only way Frank reaches his potential is if he playing for a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players. Like Pop.

AUTOADVERT
Chandler
Posts: 25959
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

11/14/2019  11:37 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
Chandler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.
I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

YES.

And this is messing with Ntilikina's head and game. Fizdale keeps trying to make Randall and Morris into something they are not during games that count.

It is not Knox who should be playing SF but Dot or RJ... whatever but get Dot into the mix. He too plays D.

I'm at wit's end with Fizdale - basketball lunacy game after game.

Hate to dissapoint but running more PnR's with Frank won't change things. Agree that biggest issue right now is with Randle. He is simply putting way to much on his shoulders. Guy plays like if he doesn't score every time he will lose his job. Ironically, he is the only one guaranteed a long term deal.
You look at last nights game and Taj was better for the team.

Would like to see Frank just put in to guard the best offensive player on the other team. The way OKC used Roberson. Thought Fiz was getting him in once White hit 2 threes. Unfortunately, White hit another and when Frank came in he was also unable to stop him. Don't think Frank even likes to be a focus point on offense. Have to give Smith more minutes to get back into shape. He showed some good spots last night but still seems to be forcing things and without confidence. I would like to see him focus on driving and creating for other and only look to score by going strong to hoop and draw fouls. In regards to Portis and Randle, agree that Fiz should go with either Portis or Randle depending on who is playing best team ball. But never both of them. If neither playing well then go with Taj. At least he passes and plays Defense, In those cases go small with RJ, Morris or Knox at 4.,

Been trying to get in on the convo but had to drive all day smh.

I am leaning toward agreeing with you on this especially off what he displayed last night.

Still would like to see some type of plan of action towards this though. Our bigs don't set screens in order to free up the PGs to penetrate. They set slip screens more than anything in order to recieve the ball back. Spacing is also a huge issue the paint ALWAYS looks croweded.

Some more of this is all I am asking for. No reason we shouldn't see this run a few times a game with all of our guards.

Spread floor opening up the paint, somewhat of a pick to free up the guard. Trier played it right found Gibson who found Portis for the high % corner three from Portis who was a 40% 3pt shooter before he became an instabum with us. Pulled it off with a 5 seconds in the shot clock. As if there was more time and White was able to recover in time. Knox was wide open as well. This is better utilization of guys like Gibson and Portis and Randle. As well as more PG friendly with the lane not as congested.


I have mixed views about the PnR aspect. I have a very tough time seeing Frank being some ISO, beat his man off the dribble, type. However, I can see him in PnR more because whether slip screen or otherwise i think first and foremost he is looking (too much) to facilitate another player. It may be a bit of pop-psychology but i think it would be easier to convince Frank he will help his teammates by mastering the PnR. I can see Mitch, Randle and Morris all benefitting from this whether PnR or pick and pop

I also think he should be initiating the offense way more. He's tall and can see things better. At present he dumps ball off to Randle or RJ and then hides in a corner where he can't even help spacing because they never pass it to him to keep teams honest and if they did he'd probably miss as he's not that type of shooter. Makes no sense for Randle or Morris to initiate -- they're liabilities in that role

When RJ is on the floor it's a tougher question and we need to find some way for Frank to contribute on O when RJ is initiating the offense

Frank is a PnR PG. Just watch his clips with KP or his play with France in FIBA. He needs bigs that know how to set a ****ing pick. One thing about KP, dude sets a great pick. He doesn't release right away and knows how to read a roll or a pop. Same with Gobert. The only big we have that knows how to set a pick is Gibson. I am hoping he can rub off on Mitch. Randle never ever sticks his picks.

Also, Fizdale never calls a PnR play for Frank. However, he calls them for DSJr no problem. He actually called a double screen for DSJr in the last game.

The problem with Frank is he runs the play that his coach calls. It puts him in a bad position since he is not a natural break the play and be aggressive kind of player. That's why you see Trier and Mudiay last year get his shots up. I would really like to see Frank just say..screw it..i am calling my own damn play. One can only hope.

I have a feeling that the only way Frank reaches his potential is if he playing for a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players. Like Pop.

Agree 100%

I think a decent coach would get much better results very quickly. I don't buy this we're running the same stuff as everyone else. No not true. Moreover, we're not running what this squad should be running

Sticking Frank in the corner after a dump off to Randle is just plain dumb. Randle can't dribble well enough, and Frank is not a corner 3 point shooter. He needs to step into his shot.

A new coach would tell several of the bigs learn how to set a freaking pick TODAY. He would include more spacing by better utilizing Morris, Ellington and Knox

FO definitely screwed up. In their view the league is all about PFs -- that's why they got 4 of them. But even with that handicap, a decent coach could get a lot more out of this squad than Fizz has

We are a hair away from being winless. Needed heroic efforts against Bulls and Mavs

(5)(5)
NYKBocker
Posts: 37879
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
11/14/2019  11:58 AM
Chandler wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Chandler wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:We need help at PG asap. Has to be the lowest scoring starting, backcourt in the league. Its a deficit the rest of the lineup has to make up. Smith jr. showed some flashes, but its probably late december before he is up to speed. Id give Dotson more time at PG. Frank's output on offense is a liability when you're trying to get off to a hot start. Saw some P&R. Considering this is a team without stars, should see it more. Asking too many players to create like guards, with all the ISO. Want to see whoever is the PG, create like one.
I need to see Fizdale put the ball in Frank's hand. Call his number all the time. If he fails then we move on but I have to see if he can do it. That defense is just too good to give up on without seeing if he can do it on the other side of the ball

Coaches have been trying to get Frank to be more aggressive since he was drafted, veteran teammates as well. Like Jarett Jack. At some point its on Frank, and that time is now. Agree with those who say that Frank should have some screens set for him, more opportunities for P&Rs, but it doesnt explain away so few trips to the line, and so few shot attempts. Believe we're coming close to the point (if we arent here already) to say that Frank as a player is who he is. No shame in being a quality bench player.

I get your point, but I think it would be a huge mistake to let Fiz be the last coach to try to get the offense from Frank. Fiz shows he doesn’t really like Frank’s game even in his best ones. I totally agree that before giving up on Frank, force some offense from him. Set some plays for him to be the finisher and give it a considerable chance. You just know if he is traded, the next team will do that and we will see Frank improve from a inside.

Yes, he HAS to be more aggressive on offense and it’s on him, but he has done it in small spurts. We aren’t winning anything soon so if you don’t even experiment with your own talent, then what is the freaking point?

Plus. What are you going to lose if you force it on Frank? You take the ball away from Randle? Yes please. You take the ball away from Morris? Please tell me more! Figuring out if you have a starting PG? Ok..it makes too much sense. I get why Fizdale doesn't want to do it.

YES.

And this is messing with Ntilikina's head and game. Fizdale keeps trying to make Randall and Morris into something they are not during games that count.

It is not Knox who should be playing SF but Dot or RJ... whatever but get Dot into the mix. He too plays D.

I'm at wit's end with Fizdale - basketball lunacy game after game.

Hate to dissapoint but running more PnR's with Frank won't change things. Agree that biggest issue right now is with Randle. He is simply putting way to much on his shoulders. Guy plays like if he doesn't score every time he will lose his job. Ironically, he is the only one guaranteed a long term deal.
You look at last nights game and Taj was better for the team.

Would like to see Frank just put in to guard the best offensive player on the other team. The way OKC used Roberson. Thought Fiz was getting him in once White hit 2 threes. Unfortunately, White hit another and when Frank came in he was also unable to stop him. Don't think Frank even likes to be a focus point on offense. Have to give Smith more minutes to get back into shape. He showed some good spots last night but still seems to be forcing things and without confidence. I would like to see him focus on driving and creating for other and only look to score by going strong to hoop and draw fouls. In regards to Portis and Randle, agree that Fiz should go with either Portis or Randle depending on who is playing best team ball. But never both of them. If neither playing well then go with Taj. At least he passes and plays Defense, In those cases go small with RJ, Morris or Knox at 4.,

Been trying to get in on the convo but had to drive all day smh.

I am leaning toward agreeing with you on this especially off what he displayed last night.

Still would like to see some type of plan of action towards this though. Our bigs don't set screens in order to free up the PGs to penetrate. They set slip screens more than anything in order to recieve the ball back. Spacing is also a huge issue the paint ALWAYS looks croweded.

Some more of this is all I am asking for. No reason we shouldn't see this run a few times a game with all of our guards.

Spread floor opening up the paint, somewhat of a pick to free up the guard. Trier played it right found Gibson who found Portis for the high % corner three from Portis who was a 40% 3pt shooter before he became an instabum with us. Pulled it off with a 5 seconds in the shot clock. As if there was more time and White was able to recover in time. Knox was wide open as well. This is better utilization of guys like Gibson and Portis and Randle. As well as more PG friendly with the lane not as congested.


I have mixed views about the PnR aspect. I have a very tough time seeing Frank being some ISO, beat his man off the dribble, type. However, I can see him in PnR more because whether slip screen or otherwise i think first and foremost he is looking (too much) to facilitate another player. It may be a bit of pop-psychology but i think it would be easier to convince Frank he will help his teammates by mastering the PnR. I can see Mitch, Randle and Morris all benefitting from this whether PnR or pick and pop

I also think he should be initiating the offense way more. He's tall and can see things better. At present he dumps ball off to Randle or RJ and then hides in a corner where he can't even help spacing because they never pass it to him to keep teams honest and if they did he'd probably miss as he's not that type of shooter. Makes no sense for Randle or Morris to initiate -- they're liabilities in that role

When RJ is on the floor it's a tougher question and we need to find some way for Frank to contribute on O when RJ is initiating the offense

Frank is a PnR PG. Just watch his clips with KP or his play with France in FIBA. He needs bigs that know how to set a ****ing pick. One thing about KP, dude sets a great pick. He doesn't release right away and knows how to read a roll or a pop. Same with Gobert. The only big we have that knows how to set a pick is Gibson. I am hoping he can rub off on Mitch. Randle never ever sticks his picks.

Also, Fizdale never calls a PnR play for Frank. However, he calls them for DSJr no problem. He actually called a double screen for DSJr in the last game.

The problem with Frank is he runs the play that his coach calls. It puts him in a bad position since he is not a natural break the play and be aggressive kind of player. That's why you see Trier and Mudiay last year get his shots up. I would really like to see Frank just say..screw it..i am calling my own damn play. One can only hope.

I have a feeling that the only way Frank reaches his potential is if he playing for a coach that knows how to get the best out of his players. Like Pop.

Agree 100%

I think a decent coach would get much better results very quickly. I don't buy this we're running the same stuff as everyone else. No not true. Moreover, we're not running what this squad should be running

Sticking Frank in the corner after a dump off to Randle is just plain dumb. Randle can't dribble well enough, and Frank is not a corner 3 point shooter. He needs to step into his shot.

A new coach would tell several of the bigs learn how to set a freaking pick TODAY. He would include more spacing by better utilizing Morris, Ellington and Knox

FO definitely screwed up. In their view the league is all about PFs -- that's why they got 4 of them. But even with that handicap, a decent coach could get a lot more out of this squad than Fizz has

We are a hair away from being winless. Needed heroic efforts against Bulls and Mavs


I am not even that upset with the collection of players. I blame Fizdale on how he is using them. Anybody can see that Randle and Morris is redundant. However, Fizdale's view of positionless basketball says otherwise. Move Randle or Morris to the bench. Insert Knox to the SF spot. When Reggie Bullock is ready, I would like to see him get a shot there. When DSJr gets in make sure you have Dotson come in with him. Have Dotson guard the PG and DSJr guard the SG. Manage RJ's minutes to 30 min a game.

Sheesh. It's not that hard.

Alright fine I'll make the game thread!

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