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Fizdale on the hot seat? Knick impromptu presser after the loss to Cleveland?
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fishmike
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11/11/2019  10:46 AM
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.
funny I was going to ask you two thing. What you think of Mike Miller and do you trust Mills/Perry to hire the right coach?

I do think there is a new screen play being written here by our always amazing FO:

Fizdale hired to manage stars that lack of system failed to lure
Dec 15 we can move all the veterans and go into a full rebuild (again)
Dump Fizdale, blames as much as possible on him and move up Mike Miller (who might be the only positive in this equation as he's clearly a good developmental guy)
Next draft sucks but hopefully we get another stud

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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houston20
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11/11/2019  10:48 AM
I think fizdale probably will get fired after thursday if the knicks continue to get blown out against bulls and mavs.
arkrud
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11/11/2019  10:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/11/2019  11:00 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I’m not gonna put all the blame on Fizdale but I do think he has a lot to do with the issues. There is no system, no set plays, free throw shooting is clearly not being worked on in practice. We may not have superstars but we have talent on this team to at least make things interesting if there was better direction. Way too many times I see our big guys dribble the ball ip the court and either launch threes or do ISO and turn the ball over and Fiz does nothing to reprimand them. This whole “positionless” basketball is not working. The rotations also tend to be not good either or when he does find a good one he often won’t go back to it. Look I’m not giving up on him but these are things he needs to change right away
fan perspective.


You make some good points. However, feel like putting the blame on the coach is always the easiest. Does Fiz need to work on some changes, absolutely. But it takes a lot more than a coach not calling the right plays to lose this badly. Keep in mind the same game plan beat the Mavs the previous game. These are professional players. They need to come out with more intensity. More importantly, as you mentioned, they need to hit shots. Let alone a freaking FOUL shot. Issue is that the players we have are just not consistent. Some have a great game one night then disappear on the next. That's not on the coach and that is the definition of a average player in today's NBA.

I’m not saying FIzdale is to blame for everything. You are right we have players who are inconsistent BUT this team is not as bad as we saw last night. We also let games get away this year from bad coaching decisions. So it’s a mixture. My issue with FIzdale is that you can’t just say “Go play positionless basketball”. You need some type of structure otherwise it’s chaotic no matter who is playing. Also he gives the green light to too many guys especially big guys on the three point line. Yes I agree the players still need to hit shots and free throws but I know this sounds corny practice helps. In high school our coach always dedicated the last half of practice to foul shooting and it helped even our worst foul shooters

This is NBA. If player cannot hit 70% of freebees he need to have a lot of other skills to not be send to DL.
The system which Fiz is trying to run required some level of bbal IQ. Minimal NBA level at least.
This level is natural for some talented players and have to be developed in others. For some it is simply something out of reach.
Knicks current roster has hardly 3-4 players who have the minimal bbal IQ required...
Some do have other skills to compensate for this. But their collective bbal IQ is far below minimal NBA team requirements.
That's why this sht show is not watchable form intelligent fan perspective.
But how any intelligent fan could even expect otherwise.
We all knew what is the state of the process of empty space (Knicks) becoming an NBA team.
We do fill some space with substance but very little so far.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Vmart
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11/11/2019  11:05 AM
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.
funny I was going to ask you two thing. What you think of Mike Miller and do you trust Mills/Perry to hire the right coach?

I do think there is a new screen play being written here by our always amazing FO:

Fizdale hired to manage stars that lack of system failed to lure
Dec 15 we can move all the veterans and go into a full rebuild (again)
Dump Fizdale, blames as much as possible on him and move up Mike Miller (who might be the only positive in this equation as he's clearly a good developmental guy)
Next draft sucks but hopefully we get another stud

I wanted the Knicks to fire Fizdale in the summer for Mike Miller. He did good work when he was with Westchester. Miller is more a teacher of the game which is what you need in today’s NBA. Fizdale was a very bad hire, we should have hired Mark Jackson. I though about JVG but realized he is a coach for veterans not so much for young players but hell of a teacher in defense.

No one can act surprised by anything this organization does. All we fans can ask for is do the right things to win. I just want a developmental guy for the young players and show them that they are going to make mistakes but to learn from them. It’s when you don’t learn from them that a player will be held accountable.

Anyways we are all jumping the gun Fizdale is still here and the firing is inevitable. Nothing you can really do a bad coach is a bad coach.

anrst
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11/11/2019  11:53 AM
loved how rebecca harlow was asking players after the game 'how much does it mean to you that the front office spoke out after game to voice support for the roster'

just fire fiz already. do the right thing. he's atrocious.

CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  11:55 AM
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.
funny I was going to ask you two thing. What you think of Mike Miller and do you trust Mills/Perry to hire the right coach?

I do think there is a new screen play being written here by our always amazing FO:

Fizdale hired to manage stars that lack of system failed to lure
Dec 15 we can move all the veterans and go into a full rebuild (again)
Dump Fizdale, blames as much as possible on him and move up Mike Miller (who might be the only positive in this equation as he's clearly a good developmental guy)
Next draft sucks but hopefully we get another stud

I wanted the Knicks to fire Fizdale in the summer for Mike Miller. He did good work when he was with Westchester. Miller is more a teacher of the game which is what you need in today’s NBA. Fizdale was a very bad hire, we should have hired Mark Jackson. I though about JVG but realized he is a coach for veterans not so much for young players but hell of a teacher in defense.

No one can act surprised by anything this organization does. All we fans can ask for is do the right things to win. I just want a developmental guy for the young players and show them that they are going to make mistakes but to learn from them. It’s when you don’t learn from them that a player will be held accountable.

Anyways we are all jumping the gun Fizdale is still here and the firing is inevitable. Nothing you can really do a bad coach is a bad coach.

I am not an expert on Miller. I know he coached college and was in the Spurs organization prior to going to Westchester. His teams won there but I don’t know how much of that is based on his coaching. He might be the next Nick Nurse.
I like Beilien a lot as a coach and I think that was a good hire. The Knicks could also look at college guys if Fiz is let go and the interim doesn’t do well.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
anrst
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11/11/2019  11:59 AM
the real reason for the press conference was the crowd was chanting 'FIRE DOLAN'

keep it up MSG!!

CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  12:15 PM
anrst wrote:the real reason for the press conference was the crowd was chanting 'FIRE DOLAN'

keep it up MSG!!


Macri on his pod mentioned Dolan may have wanted Fiz fired immediately and that Mills/Perry may have talked him down. Just speculation but thought it was interesting.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Vmart
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11/11/2019  12:20 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
anrst wrote:the real reason for the press conference was the crowd was chanting 'FIRE DOLAN'

keep it up MSG!!


Macri on his pod mentioned Dolan may have wanted Fiz fired immediately and that Mills/Perry may have talked him down. Just speculation but thought it was interesting.

I highly doubt that because the next step is Dolan issues an ultimatum. Ok I will let you keep him around but if he fails all three of you are out. I don’t think Mills or Perry would be talking anyone down at that point.

Nalod
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11/11/2019  12:22 PM
"Knicks don't attract anyone because we have no consistency"
"Fire Fiz after one season and 9 games"
"Intelligent fans"
"Frank needs this......Frank needs that" Does he need his third coach in his third season?

I get it, "Miller can't really be any worse than Fiz, right?" I guess if he came From SAS, he must be gold?

In fact, anything must be better than this!!!! You know, it just could be. Three blowouts at home. WTF?
Some where Chaney, Herb, lenny, Herb, Larry, Herb, , Woodson, Herb, Fish, Rambis, and Hornacek are all cashing in their checks and laughing "Like anything has changed?"

I run out of patience too until I hear fans calling for immediate change and think "is this coach really this dysfunctional or is it something else"?

Nalod steps back. Not my job to come up with answers.

Vmart
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11/11/2019  12:31 PM
Nalod wrote:"Knicks don't attract anyone because we have no consistency"
"Fire Fiz after one season and 9 games"
"Intelligent fans"
"Frank needs this......Frank needs that" Does he need his third coach in his third season?

I get it, "Miller can't really be any worse than Fiz, right?" I guess if he came From SAS, he must be gold?

In fact, anything must be better than this!!!! You know, it just could be. Three blowouts at home. WTF?
Some where Chaney, Herb, lenny, Herb, Larry, Herb, , Woodson, Herb, Fish, Rambis, and Hornacek are all cashing in their checks and laughing "Like anything has changed?"

I run out of patience too until I hear fans calling for immediate change and think "is this coach really this dysfunctional or is it something else"?

Nalod steps back. Not my job to come up with answers.

Nalod the Knicks brass made this bed. Hired a lousy coach for all the wrong reasons. Fizdale wasn’t hired because he was good he was hired because the brass thought he could help them lure the big fish in free agency. Now after that monumental fail the Knicks are stuck with a coach who does nothing well. The brass has to start cleaning up their shyt now. You could give Fizdale 10 years and the results will remain the same.

CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  12:33 PM
Nalod wrote:"Knicks don't attract anyone because we have no consistency"
"Fire Fiz after one season and 9 games"
"Intelligent fans"
"Frank needs this......Frank needs that" Does he need his third coach in his third season?

I get it, "Miller can't really be any worse than Fiz, right?" I guess if he came From SAS, he must be gold?

In fact, anything must be better than this!!!! You know, it just could be. Three blowouts at home. WTF?
Some where Chaney, Herb, lenny, Herb, Larry, Herb, , Woodson, Herb, Fish, Rambis, and Hornacek are all cashing in their checks and laughing "Like anything has changed?"

I run out of patience too until I hear fans calling for immediate change and think "is this coach really this dysfunctional or is it something else"?

Nalod steps back. Not my job to come up with answers.


I just read an article about the g league. One of the things talked about were point guards that were great defenders but couldn’t hit a jump shot so they couldn’t stay in the nba. Briante Webber was one of the guys mentioned. Frank needs to be able to be a threat on offense. He hit his shots in Dallas. Last night he barely took shots. Frank has to be a threat on offense for any coach to give him regular minutes.
I agree about not wanting to open the revolving door of coaches again. This team doesn’t have roster or coaching continuity. If Fiz is the wrong guy fix that in April.
B
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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11/11/2019  12:43 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:"Knicks don't attract anyone because we have no consistency"
"Fire Fiz after one season and 9 games"
"Intelligent fans"
"Frank needs this......Frank needs that" Does he need his third coach in his third season?

I get it, "Miller can't really be any worse than Fiz, right?" I guess if he came From SAS, he must be gold?

In fact, anything must be better than this!!!! You know, it just could be. Three blowouts at home. WTF?
Some where Chaney, Herb, lenny, Herb, Larry, Herb, , Woodson, Herb, Fish, Rambis, and Hornacek are all cashing in their checks and laughing "Like anything has changed?"

I run out of patience too until I hear fans calling for immediate change and think "is this coach really this dysfunctional or is it something else"?

Nalod steps back. Not my job to come up with answers.


I just read an article about the g league. One of the things talked about were point guards that were great defenders but couldn’t hit a jump shot so they couldn’t stay in the nba. Briante Webber was one of the guys mentioned. Frank needs to be able to be a threat on offense. He hit his shots in Dallas. Last night he barely took shots. Frank has to be a threat on offense for any coach to give him regular minutes.
I agree about not wanting to open the revolving door of coaches again. This team doesn’t have roster or coaching continuity. If Fiz is the wrong guy fix that in April.
B

I'd be interested as to why he only took 4 shots? I know clyde said he salivated to low post short guards in his day, but its not his day and Frank is not Clyde. I love clyde, just don't always take what he says as totally indisputable. Not that I know better.

I think team has to commit to frank before he can play footloose and fancy free!

BigDaddyG
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11/11/2019  12:50 PM
Uptown wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:I’m not gonna put all the blame on Fizdale but I do think he has a lot to do with the issues. There is no system, no set plays, free throw shooting is clearly not being worked on in practice. We may not have superstars but we have talent on this team to at least make things interesting if there was better direction. Way too many times I see our big guys dribble the ball ip the court and either launch threes or do ISO and turn the ball over and Fiz does nothing to reprimand them. This whole “positionless” basketball is not working. The rotations also tend to be not good either or when he does find a good one he often won’t go back to it. Look I’m not giving up on him but these are things he needs to change right away

Curious, how much blame do the players take? And what would you blame them for?

The thing is, the effort has usually been there. I'm not at practices and can only guess at what's being said b hind closed doors. Now, the the things I do see are clearly a symptom of bad coaching. Inconsistent rotations, shaky strategy (although he has improved some), and lack of a coherent system. Last year was somewhat understandable. We had young players who needed to get their feet wet. This year we have vets who are pretty comfortable with their games. I have no problem experimenting with Randle as a point forward. But that's not what got him that $60 million deal. I'd have no probl with another youth development year. You don't make all those signings if that's the case. I feel like I'm watching a high school tryout and we're 10 games into the season.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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11/11/2019  12:57 PM
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.

Would be a bad idea to fire Fizdale so soon, because other potential candidates for Fizdale's job will be watching. They will know that Fizdale was fired with Smith jr. and Payton on the bench. They will likely figure Fizdale wasnt given a fair shot. If Miller replaced him, and for whatever th3 reason, didnt work out. They fire Fizdale now, expect good coaches to be wary of NY. Probably are already.

BigDaddyG
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11/11/2019  1:01 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.

Would be a bad idea to fire Fizdale so soon, because other potential candidates for Fizdale's job will be watching. They will know that Fizdale was fired with Smith jr. and Payton on the bench. They will likely figure Fizdale wasnt given a fair shot. If Miller replaced him, and for whatever th3 reason, didnt work out. They fire Fizdale now, expect good coaches to be wary of NY. Probably are already.


Good coaches would be wary of the Knicks because we fired an overmatched one? I agree coaches would be wary of the Knicks, but not because we fired Fiz.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Vmart
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11/11/2019  1:04 PM
They come for the guaranteed contract. One year of that set them up for life so even if they get fired it would be well worth taking the job.
toodarkmark
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11/11/2019  1:09 PM
I can't believe people think firing Fizdale will change anything about this organization. No coach is coming in here and winning. Hire the ghost of Red Auerbach, he's not winning here. Blaming Fizdale for what's happened to the Knicks is really living in denial.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
CrushAlot
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11/11/2019  1:13 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Vmart wrote:Spare us the conference and just make the move already. Just another tactic to waste time. Bad hires cost the organization and fan base time. Get a good coach that has the ability to teach and develop talent. Since it is a middle of the year hire it looks like Mike Miller is the teams best bet.

Would be a bad idea to fire Fizdale so soon, because other potential candidates for Fizdale's job will be watching. They will know that Fizdale was fired with Smith jr. and Payton on the bench. They will likely figure Fizdale wasnt given a fair shot. If Miller replaced him, and for whatever th3 reason, didnt work out. They fire Fizdale now, expect good coaches to be wary of NY. Probably are already.


Good coaches would be wary of the Knicks because we fired an overmatched one? I agree coaches would be wary of the Knicks, but not because we fired Fiz.

The front office interviewed a lot of candidates including Budenholzer before choosing Fiz. Maybe it was just because they thought there would be more money taking the Knicks job but the procee that got Fiz looked nothing like the Lakers coaching search.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Vmart
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11/11/2019  1:15 PM
toodarkmark wrote:I can't believe people think firing Fizdale will change anything about this organization. No coach is coming in here and winning. Hire the ghost of Red Auerbach, he's not winning here. Blaming Fizdale for what's happened to the Knicks is really living in denial.

You are not wrong but change can be good too. It’s obvious whatever Fizz is doing isn’t working. Who knows maybe the next guy has a better approach.

Fizdale on the hot seat? Knick impromptu presser after the loss to Cleveland?

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