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That was Fiba Frank
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Knicksfan
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11/11/2019  8:42 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

True but then again, how should this change if this seems to be a mandate from the coach? We’ve seen that even with other players at PG: let Randle justify this stupid Position-less Basketball with Randle handling the rock even if it turns into a streak of infuriating turnovers.

Not an excuse to Frank because he needs to be aggressive, but this stubbornness on wings handling the rock even after so many turnovers and disjointed offense just makes no sense.

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TheGame
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11/11/2019  9:13 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.
I don't disagree with your assessment but the fact remains that Frank needs to realize that he is responsible for generating offense too and he cannot simply defer to others. I think part if it was that he was not comfortable dribblingbaround the Cavs smaller, quicker guards. He played solid defense yet again but he has got to bring that FIBA Frank mentality every game and demand some shots and some pick and roll action.
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NYKBocker
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11/11/2019  9:18 AM
TheGame wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.
I don't disagree with your assessment but the fact remains that Frank needs to realize that he is responsible for generating offense too and he cannot simply defer to others. I think part if it was that he was not comfortable dribblingbaround the Cavs smaller, quicker guards. He played solid defense yet again but he has got to bring that FIBA Frank mentality every game and demand some shots and some pick and roll action.
That's where the coach comes in. He needs to give his players help. A big setting a pick at mid court would do wonders. However, I don't think Fizdale knows this concept
newyorknewyork
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11/11/2019  9:37 AM
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

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Nalod
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11/11/2019  9:40 AM
Frank has demonstrated some aptitude but enough to flat out give him the role as floor general? This is tough because if his mates don’t buy in Fiz loses his team. Morris as much as he has leadership qualities he is not a top 1st or second option.
Many new faces, Dennis is not what we have hoped, Payton hurt and role players Randle, Portis and Morris all new to each other and elevated to leading man status with a coach given a new directive in his second year.
Blame? “Knicks”. One fix, one firing, one trade dont fix this season. We all know what they have to do, its just not that easy.
Uptown
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11/11/2019  10:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/11/2019  10:35 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

Calling his own number wont be a bad thing. Mudiay consistently broke the offense and called his own number and for the most part was effective in terms of getting his own shot. Yes, Mudiay displayed some tunnel vision, and sometimes led to ill-advised shots when he could have kicked it out or dropped it off to bigs in the short corner, but Fiz rewarded him with minutes.

Same thing with DSJ and Allen. Many times they called their own number and attacked the paint which opened up the game for their teammates, unfortunately, many times when Smith would kick it out, we clanked the open 3's. Looks like being in attack mode is just not a part of Franks DNA.

HofstraBBall
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11/11/2019  10:34 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

Agree with most. Would be nice to see Frank in some more PnR's. If anything, it would force him to look for offense. Thing that I fear is that he would be put in more pick and rolls but always choose the pass option and not look to shoot or attack. Maybe that is what happens in practices? Dunno. Like you said, he also rarely looks to catch and shoot and does not look for opportunities to drive as much as he should. Last night was a perfect example on how he could have used his size against smaller defenders but never did. Also, If we are to blame the offense for his lack of aggressiveness, then why is that Trier comes in as PG and has no trouble getting up shots? RJ? Think we all want to find reasons why he does not do the things we want him to do but as we have seen for 2 years, he also needs to take some responsibility.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
StarksEwing1
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11/11/2019  10:36 AM
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

Calling his own number wont be a bad thing Mudiay consistently broke the offense and called his own number and for the most part was effective in terms of getting his own shot. Yes, Mudiay displayed some tunnel vision, and sometimes led to ill-advised shots when he could have kicked it out or dropped it off to bigs in the short corner, but Fiz rewarded him with minutes.

Same thing with DSJ and Allen. Many times they called their own number and attacked the paint which opened up the game for their teammates, unfortunately, many times when Smith would kick it out, we clanked the open 3's. Looks like being in attack mode is just not a part of Franks DNA.

I don’t think that it’s not in his DNA because we have seen it. I agree he needs to do it more consistently but the difference is those other guys I felt had more leeway. I feel like Fiz takes the ball out of Franks hands far too often and let’s Randle RJ handle the ball too much which hurts them too
Vmart
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11/11/2019  10:45 AM
There is a lack of aggressiveness on Franks part but we can blame Fizdale for it. Like I said Frank is going to do what is required of him only. The coach has a short leash on him and Frank is obviously worried about the dog house. Just do what your told and be included.
Uptown
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11/11/2019  11:04 AM
Vmart wrote:There is a lack of aggressiveness on Franks part but we can blame Fizdale for it. Like I said Frank is going to do what is required of him only. The coach has a short leash on him and Frank is obviously worried about the dog house. Just do what your told and be included.

What leash?! He's the only active pg on the roster right now! He's played over 35 mins per the last couple of game...You guys make up too many excuses for these professionals. Fiz has his own faults, obviously, but it's not all on him. Players need to take some responsibility too. Frank takes the ball out of his own hands when he gives it up as soon as he crosses half court and sometimes before....Mudiay didn't do this last year, DJS, for the most part, doesn't do this either....Fiz does not have a special dog house for Frank as most of y'all seem to believe.

Vmart
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11/11/2019  11:07 AM
Uptown wrote:
Vmart wrote:There is a lack of aggressiveness on Franks part but we can blame Fizdale for it. Like I said Frank is going to do what is required of him only. The coach has a short leash on him and Frank is obviously worried about the dog house. Just do what your told and be included.

What leash?! He's the only active pg on the roster right now! He's played over 35 mins per the last couple of game...You guys make up too many excuses for these professionals. Fiz has his own faults, obviously, but it's not all on him. Players need to take some responsibility too. Frank takes the ball out of his own hands when he gives it up as soon as he crosses half court and sometimes before....Mudiay didn't do this last year, DJS, for the most part, doesn't do this either....Fiz does not have a special dog house for Frank as most of y'all seem to believe.

Dude he had three point guards when the season started and started none of them.

newyorknewyork
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11/11/2019  11:15 AM
Uptown wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

Calling his own number wont be a bad thing Mudiay consistently broke the offense and called his own number and for the most part was effective in terms of getting his own shot. Yes, Mudiay displayed some tunnel vision, and sometimes led to ill-advised shots when he could have kicked it out or dropped it off to bigs in the short corner, but Fiz rewarded him with minutes.

Same thing with DSJ and Allen. Many times they called their own number and attacked the paint which opened up the game for their teammates, unfortunately, many times when Smith would kick it out, we clanked the open 3's. Looks like being in attack mode is just not a part of Franks DNA.

Uptown as a coach you know that one of the big things with coaching is dealing with personalities. Frank doesn't have the personality to break offense and call his own number. He is going to run the offense move the ball expecting to create for others and have others create for him in return. Vs Dallas was the proper execution of those same ideals and principals leading to our best win of the season.

If Knicks want to install an attack mentality into Frank's personality. He needs reps doing so, get him reps by designing him to do so for certain functions of the game. I haven't seen the Knicks do ANYTHING, to enhance PG play. It's been tracked and brought up throughout the game through Twitter how little Knicks provide picks for their PGs.

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houston20
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11/11/2019  11:18 AM
Frank played his best game against dallas and then took giant step back with his play last night.
newyorknewyork
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11/11/2019  11:34 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Nalod wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:
TheGame wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Frank csme back down to earth. Wasnt playing with the same sense of urgency, the whole team wasnt. Times like that you need the PG to be a catalyst. Frank has to be ready as a starter to be that guy, every night, or he's a backup.
He has to get more aggressive. He only took 4 shots. If he misses his first couple of shots, he just stops trying to score. He has got to get out of that habit.
I don't think that is what happened. I think he just totally deferred to Randle. Really bad. He needs to get out of this habit.

Randle and Morris are the alphas in or starting lineup. If frank is traditional primary ball handler he needs to exhibit leadership. I’m guessing here, but until Fiz hands him the keys and has Franks back he might not have the voice to install/impose his will. Frank sets the offense then runs to the corner. That on Frank? That on Fiz? That on Randle/Morris not allowing it? Seems as if Morris, Portis and Randle tough the the ball they are shooting it a lot. Little kick outs.

Knicks had a hard time with Cav’s speedy back court.

It's mostly on Fiz. There is 0 effort from Fiz to feature Frank in any capacity offensively. If they want Frank to get into an attack mode mindset then having some plays designed specifically with that in mind to get him comfortable in doing so and building off that should be the plan. They do nothing, like AT ALL. And it's not even just Frank. Nothing set up for Knox off the bench to develop him. No plan for RJ.

We touched on this in the Assisted thread. Frank was assisted in almost everyone of his makes and the ball flowed to him constantly in order for him to get his 12 shot attempts. This game Frank had an 8% usage rate. With that 8% usage rate he had 6 assist and 2 tos. For an Ast % of 28%. Again on 8% usage rate in 35mins. 8% usage rate in 35mins is insane. Especially after the game Frank just had where he should be getting more of a feature.

Frank would have to break offense and call his own number to get shots off. He won't do it but even if he did that could backfire drastically and get him in a dog house quick.

The area I do blame Frank is in the open court where he passes the ball off rather than attack and make a big commit to him which could set up open shots for teammates as the defense gets sucked in. Even if it's a fake and he were to dribble back out. He could really put defenses on their heels and opening up lanes for cutters or 3s for teammates. This is the area where he has failed at drastically.

I am interested in seeing how it unfolds when Smith gets back. As if the PG play continues to be hindered by this style of offense. And Smith continues to struggle rather than prove that Frank is the problem. Then that could be what seals Fix fate. But if Smith shines whole getting picks called for him to free him up. Then Fiz is ****ed up.

Agree with most. Would be nice to see Frank in some more PnR's. If anything, it would force him to look for offense. Thing that I fear is that he would be put in more pick and rolls but always choose the pass option and not look to shoot or attack. Maybe that is what happens in practices? Dunno. Like you said, he also rarely looks to catch and shoot and does not look for opportunities to drive as much as he should. Last night was a perfect example on how he could have used his size against smaller defenders but never did. Also, If we are to blame the offense for his lack of aggressiveness, then why is that Trier comes in as PG and has no trouble getting up shots? RJ? Think we all want to find reasons why he does not do the things we want him to do but as we have seen for 2 years, he also needs to take some responsibility.

We have the worst offense in the NBA and do nothing to promote PG play. Even if he looked to pass a bunch. It’s better than what the team has produced so far offensively. It’s one thing if we had the pieces,!but the results of Randle and Morris is what it is.

Like I said. The area where I blame Frank is open court. That’s an area where it’s one him and he has failed in this area. Trier can get up shots but it also comes at the cost of the teams flow at times. So him getting up shots isn’t correlated with team success. Almost everyone of RJs attack attempts over the last few games have been missed contested layups in traffic. It’s one thing if they were getting off easy shots in the flow off quality design or high IQ teamwork.

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JrZyHuStLa
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11/11/2019  11:49 AM
That was Tank Frank.
That was Fiba Frank

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