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Should the knicks have offered mudiay his qualifying offer of 6.5 million instead of declining his qualifying offer contract.
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houston20
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11/4/2019  11:37 AM
My question we probably should have giving mudiay a second try this past summer instead of giving elfrid payton, dsj, and frank a chance to start as point guard. Lets be real mudiay did play well in fizdale system last year average close to 15 points ,4 assist, 4 rebounds, 44 percent from the field, and close to 33 percent from three point land. I think mudiay would have been the perfect place in this roster because he wouldn't have to do to much because he would have scorers in randle, morris, and rj barret. Plus mudiay would have had defensive players on roster like rj barret, ,morris, and mitch to cover up his defense. Also mudiay would have had trust fizdale and fizdale would have trusted mudiay run his system.
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fishmike
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11/4/2019  11:56 AM
No he's in the right place. Playing backup PG for a team with no other options.
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houston20
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11/4/2019  12:05 PM
fishmike wrote:No he's in the right place. Playing backup PG for a team with no other options.

Lets be real here dsj, frank and elfrid payton have been playing like back up point guards not like starting point guard should. Elfrid is averaging 8 points, frank is averaging 3 points, dsj is averaging 1 point while mudiay is averaging 9 points on 46 percent shooting.

smackeddog
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11/4/2019  12:12 PM
Pining for Mudiay, we've officially hit rock bottom

Seriously we need to stop running players out of town then immediately pining for them to come back when they do okay with their new teams

TPercy
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11/4/2019  12:12 PM
id rather 10 men
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houston20
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11/4/2019  12:25 PM
We would have probably been 3-4 with mudiay as starting point guard instead 1-6 after 7 games just saying .
SupremeCommander
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11/4/2019  12:25 PM
I think so. He's not great but I think he was our leading scorer last year. I wouldn't have committed to him long term but I would rather have paid him that Taj Gibson or Reggie Bullock or Wayne Ellington
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franco12
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11/4/2019  12:29 PM
the FO rolled the dice on Payton, Frank and DSJ and at the time, I don't think you could have faulted them for that move. Honestly at the time.

But I can't believe things have turned out this badly for the PG position here with the franchise.

BigDaddyG
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11/4/2019  12:36 PM
franco12 wrote:the FO rolled the dice on Payton, Frank and DSJ and at the time, I don't think you could have faulted them for that move. Honestly at the time.

But I can't believe things have turned out this badly for the PG position here with the franchise.

Yep. As mediocre as Payton has, he has a way longer track of effective point guard play than Mudiay. I would sign him over Muriay 10*/10 in any free agency period. Just didn't figure things would turn out like this.

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Chandler
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11/4/2019  12:39 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
franco12 wrote:the FO rolled the dice on Payton, Frank and DSJ and at the time, I don't think you could have faulted them for that move. Honestly at the time.

But I can't believe things have turned out this badly for the PG position here with the franchise.

Yep. As mediocre as Payton has, he has a way longer track of effective point guard play than Mudiay. I would sign him over Muriay 10*/10 in any free agency period. Just didn't figure things would turn out like this.

I agree and I don't even like Payton. Mudiay was extremely dumb with the basketball.

We could have Chris Paul in his prime and he couldn't fix the current mess. It's a lot deeper than pg and gets to poor roster construction in general compounded by no identity and poor coaching

If Portis didn't play possessed against the lowly Bulls we'd be winless at this moment

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TheGame
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11/4/2019  3:40 PM
smackeddog wrote:Pining for Mudiay, we've officially hit rock bottom

Seriously we need to stop running players out of town then immediately pining for them to come back when they do okay with their new teams

Lol. That is what I was thinking. Our pg play is so bad we actually want Mudiay back. Man, it is a tough time to be a Knicks fan.

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franco12
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11/5/2019  6:27 AM
smackeddog wrote:Pining for Mudiay, we've officially hit rock bottom

Seriously we need to stop running players out of town then immediately pining for them to come back when they do okay with their new teams

It's not that Mudiay is doing ok with Utah- it's that he did really well for us last year at a position of continued need.

Knicksfan
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11/5/2019  7:20 AM
The angle that we have very underwhelming options at PG for the second straight year is a valid one. We all remember Mudiay and for the many games he had with good numbers and the fact he did try his hardest, it was still a mess that resulted in simply not re-signing him.

(Quick aside: I love how last year was all about development, yet the PG you developed most you let go and the PG you were keeping (Frank) wasn't given a lot of chances.)

I just want to point out that just as the talent may be either underwhelming or struggling at the moment, it should also be valid to point out the job the coach has done in handling those players. In relation to his push for position-less basketball, right now seemingly just for the sake of it as his playbook doesn't justify it, its not even clear what he really wants from the position and when is the result bad enough to revert to a more traditional approach, whether with the coach or with another coach.

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Nalod
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11/5/2019  7:45 AM
Mudiay vs. Payton. Perhaps thats the real comparison.
Frank missed 43 games, and played hurt when he did.
Maybe DSjr was the real reason and his ceiling was seen as higher when the decision was made. 7 games in we really have not seen much of Dennis and what we have is not easy to have watched.
I have not seen what Mudiay has done but he is on a substantially better team and as said, Dennis has really done nothing. So after 7 games on could conclude Mudiay leaving was a mistake.
Are we going to do this every 7 games?
franco12
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11/5/2019  8:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2019  8:42 AM
Nalod wrote:Mudiay vs. Payton. Perhaps thats the real comparison.
Frank missed 43 games, and played hurt when he did.
Maybe DSjr was the real reason and his ceiling was seen as higher when the decision was made. 7 games in we really have not seen much of Dennis and what we have is not easy to have watched.
I have not seen what Mudiay has done but he is on a substantially better team and as said, Dennis has really done nothing. So after 7 games on could conclude Mudiay leaving was a mistake.
Are we going to do this every 7 games?

I don't think this is about looking back every 7 games. We knew there were question marks about the back court, pg specifically.

We joked about how many PFs we signed, but the joke was they (our FO) didn't do nearly enough to address the PG?s

The safe move would have been to retain Mudiay and add Payton and between those 4, we could have been assured of at least halfway decent starting and back up point guard play.

Instead, we have Fiz marching Barrett out to play PG to start and finish games.

Nalod
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11/5/2019  9:28 AM
Im not going to argue the first two weeks have not been awful with very uneven play. Kadeem had shown to be capable back up to back up. Technically we have 4 pgs, three of them are hurt and the 4th is a systems guy working a dysfunctional system. Mudiay showed a lot of progress and his numbers were improved. If the "process" is good for mudiay, cannot it not be for our others?
My take is simply Mudiay would have cost 6mm plus and his market value was obviously one third of that based on what he got. Not that we are getting our moneys worth else where at the 7 game mark, but Mudiay's ceiling is lower than DSjr and we made that choice to Go that way. For that matter Mario's last 7 games looked damn good when he was running the offense!

Our front court is respectable at best and they are simply out of synch with a back court that is not even close to being sorted out.
Its good thread fodder to come up with "fixes", air regrets and "what ifs".

Facts are Knicks have to make do with what they have at least until December 15th.

In the Rubio Love fest update the kid had a great game last night but he plays next to Booker who went for 40. Rubio had 21 and 10 assists. He can't do that on this team. Suns have same record as Clippers!!! Whodathunk? Mudiay backs up Mitchell and Conley. That's a fine pair!

Fact is Emmauel is a better shooter than any of PG's! Ouch!

Chandler
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11/5/2019  10:21 AM
Guys seriously. With all the money we had, plus throw in KP as a chip, and we're thinking FO should have signed Mudiay?!?

With that much flexibility, call me picky, i want a guy with a brain and who can hit an open 3 consistently

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martin
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11/5/2019  11:33 AM
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Pining for Mudiay, we've officially hit rock bottom

Seriously we need to stop running players out of town then immediately pining for them to come back when they do okay with their new teams

It's not that Mudiay is doing ok with Utah- it's that he did really well for us last year at a position of continued need.

he did? He did very well for the team so much so it was the worst in the league?

His offense was the best of his career and it was below average. His defense sucks.

Remind me what he did well? Or is the bar so low that anything better than your previous suck counts as something?

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houston20
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11/5/2019  12:06 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Pining for Mudiay, we've officially hit rock bottom

Seriously we need to stop running players out of town then immediately pining for them to come back when they do okay with their new teams

It's not that Mudiay is doing ok with Utah- it's that he did really well for us last year at a position of continued need.

he did? He did very well for the team so much so it was the worst in the league?

His offense was the best of his career and it was below average. His defense sucks.

Remind me what he did well? Or is the bar so low that anything better than your previous suck counts as something?

Frank is making salary of 4.8 million dollars and is averaging 3.2 points game, dsj is making a salary of 4.4 million is averaging 1.0 points, and elfrid payton is making salary 8 million dollars and averaging 8 points game. In total salary between payton, frank and dsj is 17 million dollars for doing nothing on offense so far and mudiay making 1.7 million dollars averaging 9 points on 44 percent shooting. Wasting 17 million on three guards who aren't giving hardly anything on offense is a bad move and the knicks should have giving mudiay another chance for 6.5 million dollars our record at least close 500 3-4 instead of 1-6.

MS
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11/5/2019  12:47 PM
We had two guys we should have just brought back instead of wasting money on Portis, Ellington, Bullock and Gibson. We weren't ever making the playoffs so don't see why you wouldn't have just brought back Mario and Noah at those numbers.

For the life of me I don't know why we didn't just sign Rubio to run the point for two year and make Barrett, Knox and Frank better. Justin Holliday played well for us, but Steve Mills thought it was smarter to give Ron Baker two year for some assign reason. He would have given us a little shooting and a lot of defense and is high character and no drama.

Ricky Rubio - Two Years $50MM
Justin Holiday - 2 years $6MM
Noah Vonleh - Two years -$6MM
Mario - Two years $7MM

Rubio / Frank
Barrett/ Dotson
Knox/Holiday
Morris / Vonleh
Randle / Mitch

Should the knicks have offered mudiay his qualifying offer of 6.5 million instead of declining his qualifying offer contract.

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