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I assume this Frank thing has been put to rest
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Knixkik
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11/4/2019  10:08 AM
Frank is a player who I still like in a backup PG role but I just don’t see him doing more. This Knicks team badly needs a PG who can penetrate and put pressure on a defense. If you have frank on the floor you are asking for all of the playmaking to go thru Barrett and/or Randle. Frank is a methodical player who doesn’t push the pace or keep a defense uncomfortable. He’s an unselfish player that moves the ball but without creativity it just moves until the shot clock runs down and forces iso ball from Randle or Morris. Nothing will change until we have a PG that can push the pace, get into the teeth of the defense and find open players. Frank is a fine bench piece that can defend good scoring PGs for stretches and have a big impact. But with him on the floor we will naturally play a slower game and settle for more isolation basketball. He’s the ideal triangle PG for sure, but in the modern game we need to be faster and have more dribble penetration.
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arkrud
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11/4/2019  10:16 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2019  10:16 AM
Frank is a specialist - defensive stopper.
Specialists in NBA are valuable but for the team which already has established roster.
I would agree that he is falling of our rebuild window.
Keeping him for 3-4 seasons from now is too expensive.
But he is building the value for us to get some good return when one of the contenders will need his specialty skills or for the team in need for compensation for departing talent.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Vmart
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11/4/2019  10:24 AM
I agree if Frank doesn’t score on then he basically relegating himself as a back up or worse a third stringer. He is young and this is his time to start to push the tempo and push to get easy baskets. Also Fizdale has said Frank is doing everything he is asking him to do. It’s time for Fizdale to set a plan of attack for Frank make straight up ultimatum if you don’t have 5-6 basket attacks and put up 12-15 damn shots in total I’m gonna sit you down. Like I said Frank can’t be a squeaky wheel on offense.
Vmart
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11/4/2019  10:28 AM
arkrud wrote:Frank is a specialist - defensive stopper.
Specialists in NBA are valuable but for the team which already has established roster.
I would agree that he is falling of our rebuild window.
Keeping him for 3-4 seasons from now is too expensive.
But he is building the value for us to get some good return when one of the contenders will need his specialty skills or for the team in need for compensation for departing talent.

You can have specialist on the team if the team has multiple superstars. Frank needs to be aggressive on the offense as well. His defense is solid but he has to refine his offensive attack. That should be the goal going forward if he wants to be any thing more that a role player in the NBA. The kid has the ability to be an all rounder.

Nalod
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11/4/2019  10:30 AM
Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

newyorknewyork
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11/4/2019  10:46 AM
Knixkik wrote:Frank is a player who I still like in a backup PG role but I just don’t see him doing more. This Knicks team badly needs a PG who can penetrate and put pressure on a defense. If you have frank on the floor you are asking for all of the playmaking to go thru Barrett and/or Randle. Frank is a methodical player who doesn’t push the pace or keep a defense uncomfortable. He’s an unselfish player that moves the ball but without creativity it just moves until the shot clock runs down and forces iso ball from Randle or Morris. Nothing will change until we have a PG that can push the pace, get into the teeth of the defense and find open players. Frank is a fine bench piece that can defend good scoring PGs for stretches and have a big impact. But with him on the floor we will naturally play a slower game and settle for more isolation basketball. He’s the ideal triangle PG for sure, but in the modern game we need to be faster and have more dribble penetration.

This has pretty much been established long before this game. Has been touched on non stop since preseason.

Would like to see Frank play alongside such a guard as well. Was hoping to get looks at a Smith/Frank combination for stretches.

The thing I don't really get though is Fiz not really looking to put the ball in Frank's hands at any cost it seems. It's established that Frank or anyone at the moment, except Barrett. Without a true lead guard is going to excel in this style of free flowing offense. So if our wings and bigs are reliant on PG play. And Frank is the only PG we have available to suit up. Why wouldn't we play in a way that fits his game? Which in turn may allow his teammates to feed off of since he is an undelfish pass first player?

It's one thing if he is controlling the ball and failing miserably. But that isn't what's happening. He is asked to run a free flowing offense that has him giving the ball up most of the time. I agree 100% with him demanding the ball etc, calling his own number from time to time etc. But it's not hapening and this offense we are running isn't working with the players we have. So what is the plan? Put him and everyone else is positions to fail and let them sink?

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Knixkik
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11/4/2019  10:48 AM
Nalod wrote:Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

He does not impact the team on both sides of the ball, at least not positively. Defensively he’s really good. Offensively he’s a negative player. He moves the ball sure, but he doesn’t do it with purpose , he does it just so he doesn’t have to create shots. He doesn’t push the pace or make the defense uncomfortable. He lacks confidence and it feels like his goal on offense is to go unnoticed and not screw up.

newyorknewyork
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11/4/2019  10:58 AM
If we are gonna do free flowing. Where are the screens for back door cuts? As the ball moves at the top of the key. Aren't the bigs at the top of the key supposed to open up for action around the paint by the guards and wings?
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houston20
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11/4/2019  11:03 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

He does not impact the team on both sides of the ball, at least not positively. Defensively he’s really good. Offensively he’s a negative player. He moves the ball sure, but he doesn’t do it with purpose , he does it just so he doesn’t have to create shots. He doesn’t push the pace or make the defense uncomfortable. He lacks confidence and it feels like his goal on offense is to go unnoticed and not screw up.

I think frank wants a role like sixers draft pick MATISSE THYBULLE has as a defensive specialist the sixers know thybulle offense isn't great but they don't care because they have players like simmons,harris,hortford, and embid as scorers. The problem with frank is what i said before he wants to be defensive specialist he does't like offensive for some reason he is allergic to that side of the ball.

Nalod
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11/4/2019  11:03 AM
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

He does not impact the team on both sides of the ball, at least not positively. Defensively he’s really good. Offensively he’s a negative player. He moves the ball sure, but he doesn’t do it with purpose , he does it just so he doesn’t have to create shots. He doesn’t push the pace or make the defense uncomfortable. He lacks confidence and it feels like his goal on offense is to go unnoticed and not screw up.

Look at the boston game tape. You see creation.
two good games: the Bobby portis game where he got hot and played hero. It was ball movement and kick outs and Randle was brilliant at times.
In Boston Frank created looks for players. Its really quite good what he does. Fundamentally sound.
When Morris, Randle and Portis are firing away this team doe not look good. Our back court has lots of problems. Frank is not the solution to all of it. Play him with Barrett and defense backs down. If your a glue guy and the pieces are not working then glue won't be effective. Gluing shyt together is not a good idea.
Frank is not good enough to make those around him better, he is good enough to run a system. When the plan breaks down might as well get him the hell out of there. Seems like Once down knicks tried to shoot back into the game. Trier defense was awful and we could not stop their guards. We also did not challenge them on defense so they had fun.

houston20
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11/4/2019  11:09 AM
Nalod wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

He does not impact the team on both sides of the ball, at least not positively. Defensively he’s really good. Offensively he’s a negative player. He moves the ball sure, but he doesn’t do it with purpose , he does it just so he doesn’t have to create shots. He doesn’t push the pace or make the defense uncomfortable. He lacks confidence and it feels like his goal on offense is to go unnoticed and not screw up.

Look at the boston game tape. You see creation.
two good games: the Bobby portis game where he got hot and played hero. It was ball movement and kick outs and Randle was brilliant at times.
In Boston Frank created looks for players. Its really quite good what he does. Fundamentally sound.
When Morris, Randle and Portis are firing away this team doe not look good. Our back court has lots of problems. Frank is not the solution to all of it. Play him with Barrett and defense backs down. If your a glue guy and the pieces are not working then glue won't be effective. Gluing shyt together is not a good idea.
Frank is not good enough to make those around him better, he is good enough to run a system. When the plan breaks down might as well get him the hell out of there. Seems like Once down knicks tried to shoot back into the game. Trier defense was awful and we could not stop their guards. We also did not challenge them on defense so they had fun.


Frank has to score on consent bases if he is going to play like he did against celtics the other night he just can't have games of 0, 2 points on regular bases. In todays nba your point guard has to be threat on offense the days of charlie ward, chris childs, derek fisher, rajon rondo and avery johnson are over.
Vmart
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11/4/2019  11:23 AM
Nalod wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Nalod wrote:Nothing is put to rest. Kid is 21 years old and he impacts the team on both sides of the ball. This team has a lot of holes and what he is or becomes is dictated by his contract which got extended, his progress or lack of, and the roster as it matures and continues.
After 7 games nothings is settled. Put him with Barrett and all his wonderfulness you have one player who can't get to the line, and another who gets to the line but shoots better from 3pt area. Love barrett but he is a rookie still and while of great promise and stud like, he still is a 19 year old with a long way before he reaches that ceiling. Frank just won't force his shot regardless. Its an issue. Frank is not killing this team, this team is just not good. You can point to the pieces but it is not adding up for now.

Its why odds makers had them winning under 30 games. You can be disappointed but should not be surprised. A guy like DSjr can impact a game as an alpha. Frank is your glue. His impact is mostly positive but if the other guys are stinking it up the glue can only do but so much.
Frank is a back up. Is he in 5 Years? Who the hell knows!

He does not impact the team on both sides of the ball, at least not positively. Defensively he’s really good. Offensively he’s a negative player. He moves the ball sure, but he doesn’t do it with purpose , he does it just so he doesn’t have to create shots. He doesn’t push the pace or make the defense uncomfortable. He lacks confidence and it feels like his goal on offense is to go unnoticed and not screw up.

Look at the boston game tape. You see creation.
two good games: the Bobby portis game where he got hot and played hero. It was ball movement and kick outs and Randle was brilliant at times.
In Boston Frank created looks for players. Its really quite good what he does. Fundamentally sound.
When Morris, Randle and Portis are firing away this team doe not look good. Our back court has lots of problems. Frank is not the solution to all of it. Play him with Barrett and defense backs down. If your a glue guy and the pieces are not working then glue won't be effective. Gluing shyt together is not a good idea.
Frank is not good enough to make those around him better, he is good enough to run a system. When the plan breaks down might as well get him the hell out of there. Seems like Once down knicks tried to shoot back into the game. Trier defense was awful and we could not stop their guards. We also did not challenge them on defense so they had fun.

If you saw the disaster in the Sac game he got two bogus calls on him. The trip was inadvertent contact and the first was something that could have been an on call. But the offensive side you saw Fox laying off of him and playing the passing lanes not respecting Franks ability to shoot or drive.

NYKBocker
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11/4/2019  11:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2019  11:28 AM
I am a big Frank fan. Love the kid. He has his warts and he has a few of them.

He needs to improve on the following or he will be forever a backup but if he improves these items then he can be a Charlie Ward type starter in the association. If he can accomplish this then he is the perfect backcourt mate for RJ since RJ is a ball dominant SG.

1. Improve his 3 point %age. He connects at over 37% and he is golden.
2. He needs to start looking for his shots more. He is great at setting up his teammates but he needs to be looked upon as threat at all times or things won't work.
3. When leading the break and he doesn't pass ahead he stops at the 3 point line to pass to a teammate in the wing to reset. I hate it when he does that all the time. He needs to probe and continue if nothing there then bring it back out.

Stating the facts where some of them are obvious, Fizdale is really not helping him at all. There are a lot that Frank can do himself to get better but his coach has to put him in the best possible situation to succeed. Here are some things Fizdale can do to help Frank.

1. In offense, run the PnR with Frank and Randle. Frank ran this with Porzingis and they ran it well. Randle needs to learn how to read the defense and know when to pop or roll and he will get a lot of open looks. Randle also needs to learn how to set a ****ing pick. Frank delivers very accurate passes to bigs when they roll. I don't understand why Fizdale never uses this.
2. Tell Frank that he needs to learn how to back cut. Dude is standing in the corner and his defender is not paying attention to him all the time. CUT FRANK!
3. Stop yanking Frank out for offense/defense situations at the end of games. You want to show him confidence then this is the best time to do it.
4. Get rid of that stupid 3 man weave going east and west at the top of the key. That **** never works. The only thing it does is piss me off and take 5 seconds off the 24 second clock.
5. Pass and cut. Too much standing around. If you pass and cut to the basket then you are putting pressure on the defense to guard the paint and your 3 point shooters will be open.

OK. Rant over.

EDIT: Oh, and stop the ****ing ISO. You have 2 capable ISO players in RJ and Trier. Stop ISO centric offense with Randle and Morris. Have Morris be a 3 and D player and he will flourish.

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11/4/2019  12:38 PM
After 7 games, I have more questions about our coach than our players. And I have more questions about the front office and what they built than the players.

I thought with the players we added and kept, we'd be better than last year, and better than the record we have thus far.

But, there is a big question about fit - and that is on the FO at this stage.

And there is a question in my mind that wasn't there at the beginning of the season - and that is, is Fiz an NBA level coach?

TheGame
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11/4/2019  3:44 PM
Knixkik wrote:Frank is a player who I still like in a backup PG role but I just don’t see him doing more. This Knicks team badly needs a PG who can penetrate and put pressure on a defense. If you have frank on the floor you are asking for all of the playmaking to go thru Barrett and/or Randle. Frank is a methodical player who doesn’t push the pace or keep a defense uncomfortable. He’s an unselfish player that moves the ball but without creativity it just moves until the shot clock runs down and forces iso ball from Randle or Morris. Nothing will change until we have a PG that can push the pace, get into the teeth of the defense and find open players. Frank is a fine bench piece that can defend good scoring PGs for stretches and have a big impact. But with him on the floor we will naturally play a slower game and settle for more isolation basketball. He’s the ideal triangle PG for sure, but in the modern game we need to be faster and have more dribble penetration.

Frank is a year away from being two years away. . I am so frustrated with Frank because I can see the great pg he can be if he just played with confidence. If Frank had RJ's mindset, he would be an ul and coming star. He does really need to get stronger and figure out why his 3s are not falling.

Trust the Process
GoNyGoNyGo
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11/4/2019  4:22 PM
i am not sold yet that all Frank can do is defend. His D is all-NBA level.

His offense is limited but is that him or the coaching. I would like to see more. Frank was almost getting there under Hornacek. Last year under FIZ he regressed and then got hurt. Now, its not worse but not improving. Are any players improving since last year?

knicks1248
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11/4/2019  4:43 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:i am not sold yet that all Frank can do is defend. His D is all-NBA level.

His offense is limited but is that him or the coaching. I would like to see more. Frank was almost getting there under Hornacek. Last year under FIZ he regressed and then got hurt. Now, its not worse but not improving. Are any players improving since last year?

knox, but he didn't spend a single minute with knicks staff this summer, same as when KP stayed away all summer and came back lighting it up..

Franks regressed last season after training with the knicks all summer, like DSJ is looking this yr,after training with the knicks all summer..

hmmm

ES
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11/4/2019  4:46 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:i am not sold yet that all Frank can do is defend. His D is all-NBA level.

His offense is limited but is that him or the coaching. I would like to see more. Frank was almost getting there under Hornacek. Last year under FIZ he regressed and then got hurt. Now, its not worse but not improving. Are any players improving since last year?


Knox. Unfortunately we said Morris. I was for it at time. But I'd rather see get more minutes if we're still going to be in the 20 win range. I'm hopeful things pick up. To be fair, our schedule has been brutal so far.


Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GoNyGoNyGo
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11/4/2019  5:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2019  5:32 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:i am not sold yet that all Frank can do is defend. His D is all-NBA level.

His offense is limited but is that him or the coaching. I would like to see more. Frank was almost getting there under Hornacek. Last year under FIZ he regressed and then got hurt. Now, its not worse but not improving. Are any players improving since last year?


Knox. Unfortunately we said Morris. I was for it at time. But I'd rather see get more minutes if we're still going to be in the 20 win range. I'm hopeful things pick up. To be fair, our schedule has been brutal so far.



Agree
If randle needs spacing let Knox play with him!! 3 PF's together wont do it, (morris, Randle and pOrtis!)

Knox plays outside and can shoot it. Morris would be good to lead a 2nd unit.

LEt be Mitch be Mitch but no...now they are messing with him...as this article states.

https://nypost.com/2019/11/04/knicks-have-turned-mitchell-robinson-into-their-fall-guy/

GoNyGoNyGo
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11/4/2019  5:32 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:i am not sold yet that all Frank can do is defend. His D is all-NBA level.

His offense is limited but is that him or the coaching. I would like to see more. Frank was almost getting there under Hornacek. Last year under FIZ he regressed and then got hurt. Now, its not worse but not improving. Are any players improving since last year?

knox, but he didn't spend a single minute with knicks staff this summer, same as when KP stayed away all summer and came back lighting it up..

Franks regressed last season after training with the knicks all summer, like DSJ is looking this yr,after training with the knicks all summer..

hmmm


I agree - there does seem to be something to it.
I assume this Frank thing has been put to rest

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