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GameThread: Knicks head south to Orlando
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martin
Posts: 67903
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Member: #2
USA
10/31/2019  1:10 PM
NYKBocker wrote:I think Fizdale's agenda in not starting Frank is that if he starts Frank and he does well then it will be harder for him to relegate him back to the bench or out of rotation. He wants to have DSJr as the starting PG by hook or by crook. Not starting Frank, when he is the only true PG available, because he wants to protect him from foul trouble is downright ridiculous and reeks of stupidity.

I don't see this at all and have a different take.

Frank's biggest problem is confidence along with just not having the killer/leader mentality.

Frank has also made too many self-imposed errors that just kill the team, witness that 3 minute stint.

Playing against starters for a guy like Frank, in lieu of even making a small mistake, is infinitely greater. Against backups, Frank can thrive and the Knicks NEED to kick start him. The Knicks NEED to get this guy going and build his confidence on small brick at a time (hahahaaha).

Frank played 30 minutes last night and it's the total minutes that count, not starting/coming off bench.

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Chandler
Posts: 25959
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Joined: 11/26/2015
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10/31/2019  1:14 PM
martin wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:I think Fizdale's agenda in not starting Frank is that if he starts Frank and he does well then it will be harder for him to relegate him back to the bench or out of rotation. He wants to have DSJr as the starting PG by hook or by crook. Not starting Frank, when he is the only true PG available, because he wants to protect him from foul trouble is downright ridiculous and reeks of stupidity.

I don't see this at all and have a different take.

Frank's biggest problem is confidence along with just not having the killer/leader mentality.

Frank has also made too many self-imposed errors that just kill the team, witness that 3 minute stint.

Playing against starters for a guy like Frank, in lieu of even making a small mistake, is infinitely greater. Against backups, Frank can thrive and the Knicks NEED to kick start him. The Knicks NEED to get this guy going and build his confidence on small brick at a time (hahahaaha).

Frank played 30 minutes last night and it's the total minutes that count, not starting/coming off bench.

Since I'm on a Celtics kick today, I'll add they always used to say it's not who starts a game but who finishes that matters

(5)(5)
StarksEwing1
Posts: 32671
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Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

10/31/2019  1:23 PM
martin wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:I think Fizdale's agenda in not starting Frank is that if he starts Frank and he does well then it will be harder for him to relegate him back to the bench or out of rotation. He wants to have DSJr as the starting PG by hook or by crook. Not starting Frank, when he is the only true PG available, because he wants to protect him from foul trouble is downright ridiculous and reeks of stupidity.

I don't see this at all and have a different take.

Frank's biggest problem is confidence along with just not having the killer/leader mentality.

Frank has also made too many self-imposed errors that just kill the team, witness that 3 minute stint.

Playing against starters for a guy like Frank, in lieu of even making a small mistake, is infinitely greater. Against backups, Frank can thrive and the Knicks NEED to kick start him. The Knicks NEED to get this guy going and build his confidence on small brick at a time (hahahaaha).

Frank played 30 minutes last night and it's the total minutes that count, not starting/coming off bench.

agreed. Honestly I like Frank coming off the bench much better. in the past two games he came off the bench but provided very good minutes despite not scoring in the first game. Last night he started to hit his shots and was making good passes. I also think his defense rubs off on the rets of the unit although I was very happy to see Dotson in there because he is a good defender too.
fishmike
Posts: 53038
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10/31/2019  2:29 PM
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Chandler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:Felt like the biggest hole in the Knicks player rotation was someone who could just break his man down, get into the middle of the court, and go from there, either further to rim or kickout.

Trier must have pissed off the coaching staff something good

thats the PG's job no? Also that is the one skill Elf really brings and he's played very poorly. DSjr was hopefully that guy but seemed happier taking long 2s and step back jumpers than attacking the rim. This is why our bigs are barreling into guys trying to make stuff happen.

This is the coaches problem to fix and pretty predictable if you think about it. Biggest question mark into the season was going to be PG play. Guess what? Offense is really struggling with non existent PG play.

I think where fans vary is some like to place instant blame on Fizdale and start labeling him. Others see the roster flaws. Some see it in the middle. Me personally I am in the middle. Its a roster problem for sure, and I dont see a quick fix but there is a gradual one and that is coaching. While we have shortcomings for sure there are parts to work with. I expect considerable improvements after 10,20 and 30 games. I am not a Fizdale fan for a few reasons but the guy should get his chance to get this group playing well. I dont know how you can follow this league, see this Knicks roster and be like "coach sucks." He may or may not but not after 1-4 with all losses vs. playoff teams from last year. Knicks have a lot to figure out.

Very pragmatic approach

But food for thought: the team is constructed with a lot of one year rentals. As soon as (and IF) fizz figures this out, we'll be thinking about a new roster next year with lots of new faces. Not sure if FO thought about that. Their cap flexibility in turn leads to a lack of team cohesion and growth. we're going to see a repeat next year

Water under the bridge, and putting aside the KP issue, when plan KD/KI deteriorated, they should have rebooted and used their cap space to absorb contracts. Of course that would have looked a little weird since part of plan KP was to dump bad contracts, but we would have been in better position for next year when all our young guys/future were that much further along

what bad contracts? The ones that moved had huge players attached to them (CP3)

I think they might be doing exactly what you mentioned. Morris/Ellington/Payton/Portis/Buford are all on 1 year deals with either TOs for the following year $1mm buyouts making them valuable pieces for teams looking to cut salary or attach an asset to a longer term deal.

Even more so it sets them up right before the offseason to move those guys for equal salary and use the $1mm buy out (Ellington/Payton/Buford all have this)

So I think you nailed it. Guy guys that can hopefully improve the team and help coaching staff short term, provide trade assets/pieces

CP3 was a mess. But there were others moved (e.g., Nets and Atlanta) and others I'd suspect were available. We shot our load in the first day or so, and didn't play that card.

We did achieve cap flexibility. No denying that. But the point I was making (apparently not clearly) is whether they dump or trade the guys you mention, we will be going through these pains again next season about cohesion, building a system etc

I hope you're right that we can trade some of these guys -- which would accomplish something similar to what I had hoped for. That would be great. My concern (hopefully unfounded) is that these guys are JAGs and the contending teams at the trade deadline are not going to see any as a needle-mover (outside of maybe Randle) no better than their existing roster who already has the benefit of playing together, cohesion etc. None seemed in love enough to make a play for them as FAs. Maybe if there are injuries there will be a need.

what we have are parts to make deals work. That is not to say that they are chips. If a core piece becomes available we can offer expiring contracts, we have some extra pics and of course some young players of varying value. We can buy or sell. We are flexible... I wouldnt confuse that with having a treasure chest of assets to use at the deadline
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GameThread: Knicks head south to Orlando

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