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Frank is the key to bringing the knicks together
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stanleybostitch
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10/29/2019  9:04 AM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:
Nalod wrote:Not all players develop the same way.
He is the longest tenured knick and had two coaches in his first two years. He is now just starting his third season, not a “three year player”. Watch the end of the game again and franks defense. In fact the whole team played well down the stretch.
Isn’t it wonderful, “Poetry in motion” when a teams offense flows and the ball moves. Defense has the same effect. Frank thrives. THe team since he has been here and its offense? Not much to thrive in. He moves the ball. He moves without the ball.
Make no bones about it, the shots have to fall.
He is a special player that effects the game without scoring. Too bad some of you can’t appreciate that. Its why many root for those s shots to go in. The French team had a mature group of NBA players who played a nice game and moved the ball. They had a rhythm. Frank fed off of that. Thats my take. If we are destined to just have ISO players take turn after turn then he should seek to play elsewhere and thrive. I’m not saying is absolute, its just an opinion.

Well said.

I am willing to be patient with Frank. His D makes it worth it. IF he an get some extended consistent playing time and an offense to run, he will find his spots and start contributing. The kid is 20. He is SO young.

Yes, his shot is not falling but his form is good. He hits his FT's. He has a tendencey to not follow thru and that is when he is missing. He needs to work relentlesly at this until it sticks. Once it does, he should be at least an average shooter, I hope!

He had a couple great drives into the lane early in the 4th Q last night. He's making the right reads and given time his shot will start to fall.

The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
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Knixkik
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10/29/2019  9:33 AM
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I do agree that Frank gets yanked around more than other young players. But he's also a PG and has more responsibility that he clearly wasn't ready for. Either way, Frank has become such a polarizing player. He's clearly an impact player defensively, but does it offset his zero confidence and contributions on offense? I guess he can become a PG version of Andre Roberson, but again the PG position requires more than just a lock-down defensive player. He must be able to facilitate an offense without turning the ball over, and make open shots. He does neither of those things and hasn't shown any real growth in those areas. Of course Fiz deserves some blame for that, but not all of the blame. He has to eventually become a 40+ percent shooter from the field and 35 percent from 3pt. He's not being asked to create shots for himself or others, so he's only taking open shots and only making the easy passes, so the percents have to come up and the turnovers have to come down. Playing alongside Barrett may save him in terms of his full-time PG responsibilities and allow him to do what he does best. But he still needs to learn how to shoot. His shot looks good enough, it just doesn't go in, which means confidence is a big factor.

martin
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10/29/2019  11:19 AM
Nalod wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I think frank’s shoulder and really season long groin issue made for a complete clusterphuk of a season. Not an excuse, its a theory. The kid was hurt with his shoulder to start and the groin had him in and out. And yes, Fiz was was quick to yank him.

And it could have been both shoulders. I seem to recall him taping both, and that's not a good sign at 19 or 20 years old.

He has got a lot to prove.

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nykshaknbake
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10/29/2019  12:28 PM
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I think frank’s shoulder and really season long groin issue made for a complete clusterphuk of a season. Not an excuse, its a theory. The kid was hurt with his shoulder to start and the groin had him in and out. And yes, Fiz was was quick to yank him.

And it could have been both shoulders. I seem to recall him taping both, and that's not a good sign at 19 or 20 years old.

He has got a lot to prove.

Does he? Reading this board I think he's already proven it. If he does well he'll be credited if he doesn't it will automatically be dismissed and blamed on the coaches or FO.

martin
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10/29/2019  12:42 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I think frank’s shoulder and really season long groin issue made for a complete clusterphuk of a season. Not an excuse, its a theory. The kid was hurt with his shoulder to start and the groin had him in and out. And yes, Fiz was was quick to yank him.

And it could have been both shoulders. I seem to recall him taping both, and that's not a good sign at 19 or 20 years old.

He has got a lot to prove.

Does he? Reading this board I think he's already proven it. If he does well he'll be credited if he doesn't it will automatically be dismissed and blamed on the coaches or FO.

Nope, you are glossing over way too much.

Pretty much every person who likes Frank often acknowledges his offensive shortcomings. Don't mean they can't also appreciate everything else he can do.

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fwk00
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10/29/2019  12:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2019  12:49 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Frank is not a 2, IMO. He is a 1. Let him play there and learn that position.

He can learn that position in the G-League NOT in the NBA.

I shouldn't be surprised but some on this site but...somehow, I am...what exactly has Frank Ntilikina done to warrant such praise? What exactly did I miss? Kid needs A LOT of work and the only place he is going to get it is in the G-League.

Did you actually watch the game? Did you hear FIzdale after the game? Frank didn’t hit his shots but his defense was a big reason why things didn’t get out of hand and we were able to comeback. Look I know some just look at point totals as the most important but believe it or not defense actually helps wins games lol

What is causing the polarization is the inability of pundits to let go of the idea of position-specific basketball and even more specifically "The formula for a PG is... [whatever ESPN tells me it is]".

These discussions *should be* about team basketball. In other words, what are the best combinations of players and player attributes [given our existing roster] to win games?

So far, some combination of Payton, Frankie, and Ellington bring out the best in the rest of the team. Its that simple. Forget this stat and that stat - doesn't mean squat.

And that's why sending anyone to the G-League makes zero sense. The players who are going to become a championship unit are already here and need time together. What's the harm? If the pundits predict 20 wins then how the hell does playing Frankie hurt you? How?

This team has a different chemistry than a Miami BIG THREE or GS or the Clippers.

You get it absolutely right... "defense actually helps win games". Its contagious. Lock this team into what Frank is doing.

StarksEwing1
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10/29/2019  12:55 PM
martin wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I think frank’s shoulder and really season long groin issue made for a complete clusterphuk of a season. Not an excuse, its a theory. The kid was hurt with his shoulder to start and the groin had him in and out. And yes, Fiz was was quick to yank him.

And it could have been both shoulders. I seem to recall him taping both, and that's not a good sign at 19 or 20 years old.

He has got a lot to prove.

Does he? Reading this board I think he's already proven it. If he does well he'll be credited if he doesn't it will automatically be dismissed and blamed on the coaches or FO.

Nope, you are glossing over way too much.

Pretty much every person who likes Frank often acknowledges his offensive shortcomings. Don't mean they can't also appreciate everything else he can do.

100% This. I think everyone who has supported Frank has been very very fair of his weaknesses. hell we aren't even saying he should start or even get the majority of the minutes. But he should have a role on this team because like we saw last night he helps. I've always been big on defense even as a player. Yes I understand Frank needs progress in offense game but despite missing shots I liked what I saw. he was more aggressive he just didn't get the rolls. This is also not a frank vs DSJ thing. I want BOTH these kids to succeed. I admit I wanst a huge fan of his game BUT ever since the trade I have been very supportive of DSJ. Even with his early struggles I'm still positive about his future. Ironically somebody on here who used to be a huge fan of DSJ and hated that we drafted Frank over him has now given up on DSJ too lol
Nalod
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10/29/2019  2:01 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I think frank’s shoulder and really season long groin issue made for a complete clusterphuk of a season. Not an excuse, its a theory. The kid was hurt with his shoulder to start and the groin had him in and out. And yes, Fiz was was quick to yank him.

And it could have been both shoulders. I seem to recall him taping both, and that's not a good sign at 19 or 20 years old.

He has got a lot to prove.

Does he? Reading this board I think he's already proven it. If he does well he'll be credited if he doesn't it will automatically be dismissed and blamed on the coaches or FO.

Count me as a Frank Fanboy and supporter. But you read my stuff: "He gotta hit his shots"!! Ive said it 100 times.
Im also not in the "gotta have a PG" camp. You need "Guards". If you have a Steph curry or the luck to draft Morant or Trae Young you go with it as to what they can do best. They can Shoot and it opens up a world of opportunity. We got frank who can limit that world with his defense. You can't stop the Nash's, Currys and now Young, but contain the damage.
Great guards can shoot, penetrate and Pass. Don't care what you call it. PG, SG, SF......Don't matter. If you have more than one your not going to tell one to stop. What was Jordan? He could play 3 positions. Pippin would guard the star PG's at times.

awe1028
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10/29/2019  4:46 PM
Knixkik wrote:
awe1028 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
How has he not been developed properly? He was hurt most of last season, consistently got 20 mpg the season before and showed very little. The Knicks have never forced him to carry an offensive load more than he was comfortable with. In fact they did move him around to find a place. What else besides giving him guaranteed 30 mpg independent of earning it(which no player in the NBA gets)could they have done? Spurs are brought up because alot of folks have asserted that Pop would have him starting and playing 30 per game.

You remember how Knox played last year. At times he looked downright horrible. He did show some flashes but overall he was horrible. But Fizdale stuck with him all year. He allowed him to make a ton of mistakes and now this year he looks like a different player.

The way Fizdale handled Knox is the way he should have handled Frank. Yes Frank struggled mightily on offense but he should have stuck with him the way he stuck with Knox. Let him play live with the ofers on offense

Yes Frank eventually suffered the injury but up to that point Fiz had a very short leash and kept yanking him around.

The fans booing DSJ was definitely not a good look. But maybe it was a blessing in disguise. Now that Fiz knows the fans will not put up with him yanking Frank around maybe just maybe he will give Frank a real look now.

The interview after the game seems to hint at this. The reporter asked Fiz about Frank going 0 for 6 and he basically said I don't give a **** and launched into the positives that Frank brought to the game

All I have to say is hallelujah Fiz has finally seen the light - I hope.

I do agree that Frank gets yanked around more than other young players. But he's also a PG and has more responsibility that he clearly wasn't ready for. Either way, Frank has become such a polarizing player. He's clearly an impact player defensively, but does it offset his zero confidence and contributions on offense? I guess he can become a PG version of Andre Roberson, but again the PG position requires more than just a lock-down defensive player. He must be able to facilitate an offense without turning the ball over, and make open shots. He does neither of those things and hasn't shown any real growth in those areas. Of course Fiz deserves some blame for that, but not all of the blame. He has to eventually become a 40+ percent shooter from the field and 35 percent from 3pt. He's not being asked to create shots for himself or others, so he's only taking open shots and only making the easy passes, so the percents have to come up and the turnovers have to come down. Playing alongside Barrett may save him in terms of his full-time PG responsibilities and allow him to do what he does best. But he still needs to learn how to shoot. His shot looks good enough, it just doesn't go in, which means confidence is a big factor.


Precisely. "He was given responsibility for which he was not ready". This is why I said in the OP the Knicks should simplify his responsibilities by moving him off PG duties or at the very least have him share the role with someone as he did last game with RJB. This way he gets to develop his offense without the undue pressure

Why invest the time to develop his offense? Simple. look at last night's game. The moment he entered the game the Knicks became a completely different team defensively. And for people saying he does not score enough. Frank had an ofer and still along with Portis and RJB was the reason the Knicks won that game

The point: even with all the flaws he has offense he is so good defensively he still impacts the game at a very very high level. This is why you take the time to develop his offense.

If he is able to develop any semblance of an offense this guy immediately becomes a star. And depending on how much is offense develops a superstar. The fact the Knicks are not aware of this just shows how inept the franchise is. There is no way if Frank was with lets say Popovich and the Spurs they would not have recognized his potential.

I will say this again: the fans booing Fiz may just be the turning point for the Knicks. Fiz looked visibly shook at the vitriol the crowd hurled his way (unfortunate DSJ bore the brunt of it)

He Finally gave Frank some burn and Frank took over the game After this game if Fiz goes back to yanking Frank the crowd seems to have had enough and would let him know it.

Frank is the key to bringing the knicks together

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