CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Trying to make the pieces fit and form and identity. Things will look sloppy if certain combinations are together.

I don't think a starting lineup of Smith or Payton, Barrett, Morris, Randle, Robinson works well enough together to be a starting lineup. As it will be tough to create an identity with those different styles and skills. Nothing will get accomplished.

So 2 lineups should be formed:
Portis, Randle, Morris, Barrett, Frank. Work heavy PNR with Barrett & Randle as the features to create for others or themselves. Dependent on Frank knocking down the 3 to be 3&D alternate ball handler. Barrett would be primary ball handler.

Robinson, Knox, Ellington, Trier, Smith. Smaller lineup more focused on space and pace. If we are getting smashed on the boards or in the paint Gibson can come in with Knox moving over to SF. Would slow down the pace somewhat, but would counter the size if a problem.

Frank knocking down the 3 changes most conversations about Frank. Frank's shooting in the preseason has followed his career pattern so I don't know if it is realistic to expect that to change. .111 from three in the preseason isn't going to help any argument that Frank has figured things out on offense.

Didn't even see this reply.

Problem is Payton has an even longer history of not being able to shoot, and Smith would work better with the other combination of players looking to push the tempo. By pairing Frank with Barrett you are able to feature Barrett along with Randle. If you have Payton with Barrett you have to put the ball in Payton's hands and take the ball out of Barrett's. And I choose Barrett over Payton. Frank also as we know plays very strong defense. He can impact games without being featured ball handler. So you take the defense and put him in position to get kickout or swing pass 3s. And bank on him being able to improve that 3. Which he has only played 121 games, and shot 31.8% from in his soph (in 43 games).

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Alternate could be Smith-Ellington-Barrett-Randle-Robinson as swapping Ellington and Barrett on the wing for Barrett & Morris would increase the pace. But this lineup pretty much puts the ball mostly in Smith's hands to make it work, and I don't love the spacing. 2nd unit of Payton-Trier-Knox-Morris-Portis seems pretty solid though.

Fiz seems to like Randle handling the rock at the top of the key...Barrett is also a good playmaker so Dennis wont have to initiate the offense every time down. But, you do want Dennis starting the break as he does the best job on the team at pushing the pace.

I'd much rather see Zo soak up most of the back up 2 mins but i'm not sure that's going to happen.

The issue to me is you have 3 primary handlers who excel with the ball in their hands and none of them are knock down shooters. You preferably want the 3rd option to be a high level 3&D guy as his usage will drop drastically having to give up the rock to other play makers. By staggering Smith. You now are able to feature both Barrett and Randle in clear cut roles. Frank, Morris, Portis fit the complimentary roles better than Smith does. Then Smith can become the feature in the other unit. With better shooters around him who also would be faster to compliment his pace. Either Smith or Barrett or Randle will lose effectiveness as a 3rd option imo, and the offense will turn to iso with guys tryna figure out how to make it work.

Mitch (According to Portis Fiz already guaranteed Mitch would start)
Randle (No way Randle sits after they paid him 63 million)
Morris (No way Morris sits imagine the nightmare in the locker room if he is not starting)
RJ (For obvious reasons He is already the best player on the team right now)
DSJ/Payton (if DSJ is healthy then it's him if not then Payton)

Above is what the lineup will be Below is what the lineup should be

Mitch (Only big that plays defense his shot blocking helps to stabilize the interior defense)
Knox (Has improved provides legit 3 point shooting plus at the 4 his defensive deficiencies are lessened)
RJ (As stated above best player on the team right now)
FRANK (Yes I said it FRANK brings that lockdown defense)
DSJ like above if healthy he is the most talented and the Knicks need to see what he's got)
Trier (First/sixth man off the bench his skill perfectly fits the 6th man role)

This lineup allows the Knicks to continue the rebuild evaluate the young players and of course develop the young players. This lineup is also the best defensive lineup. Frank RJ and Mitch are the Knicks best defensive players and with these three stuff like what happened the second Washington game won't happen What was it 19/41 46% from three. Frank would not allow that. Also with this lineup the Knicks are most assuredly a lottery team ensuring a shot at another RJ level talent in the draft. Win Win all around. Unfortunately Fiz is not smart enough nor does he have the guts to do it.

Bench: DSJr, Trier, Knox, Portis, Payton

NYKBocker wrote:Mitch, Randle, Morris, RJ, Frank

Bench: DSJr, Trier, Knox, Portis, Payton

Better D and organized to start the game.

Bring on speed and quick scoring.

Ellington needs to be used as a sharp shooter when needed. IF trier is OFf, then Dotson or Ellington take his place.

I also think Taj needs to play he is very effective.

Kemet wrote:When your offensive system does not have a set PLAN, nor have a couple of design PLAYS for a half-court offense of player-movement and ball-movement to create open looks for catch n shoot players (Dotson, Ellington, Knox, Morris, RJ), or the first step slashers (Knox, DSJ, Trier, RJ, Morris, Portis) to score or get fouled.
When u don't have none of the above in your so-call ISO-system .. It don't matter who u put in the starter lineup or the rotation, the team will be playing EXPERIMENT B.Ball each game having NO PLAN !!!

Fizdale is starting to put more set plays into the offense, but his bigger focus is ball movement. He felt there was too much isolation and one-on-one play during the preseason.

“That’s where they got to fight the urge to stop the ball,” Fizdale said. “That’s what we did in practice today. We just hammered home, ‘Move it, move it, move it.’ You got a 1 ¹/₂-second hold, then you got to move it.

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Kemet wrote:When your offensive system does not have a set PLAN, nor have a couple of design PLAYS for a half-court offense of player-movement and ball-movement to create open looks for catch n shoot players (Dotson, Ellington, Knox, Morris, RJ), or the first step slashers (Knox, DSJ, Trier, RJ, Morris, Portis) to score or get fouled.
When u don't have none of the above in your so-call ISO-system .. It don't matter who u put in the starter lineup or the rotation, the team will be playing EXPERIMENT B.Ball each game having NO PLAN !!!

Fizdale is starting to put more set plays into the offense, but his bigger focus is ball movement. He felt there was too much isolation and one-on-one play during the preseason.

“That’s where they got to fight the urge to stop the ball,” Fizdale said. “That’s what we did in practice today. We just hammered home, ‘Move it, move it, move it.’ You got a 1 ¹/₂-second hold, then you got to move it.

Sounds like your post is not in tune with Fitzdale philosophy. There no experiment ball. There are players that only excel in 1 on 1 systems....And Fitz is trying to break that mold. That's on the GM and President for bringing in non system players who only excel in ISO ball.

As coach and with the depth he has at hand this seaon, If this is really what he wants, I will fully expect that players that tend to STOP the ball from moving will be benched and players that MOVE the ball will play. If he does that then I will beleive what is being said.

i hope he is true to that quote.

HofstraBBall wrote:

arkrud wrote:Robinson
Randle
Morris
Barret
DSJr

Agree that this will probably be the starting line up once the season is in full gear. Although Portis seems to be ready to play this year and Robinson may still have issues with foul trouble. Hoping Smith shows enough to replace the steady play of Payton.

Something that would be fun to see but unlikely is to have the vets start and have all our young guys come off the bench together. So...
Portis, Randle, Morris, Ellington, Payton or maybe Trier instead of Ellington as starters. See what the FO saw in free agency. And then have the Second Unit be Smith, RJ, Frank, Knox and Mitch. Push the pace and make our yoots work together and learn. Use the 5 that are on for the last 7 minutes. Think the young guys would have fun with the challenge of playing better than the vets and should be a good way of seeing who will step up out of a man rotation.

smith
frank
rj
knox
mitch

There's no real perimeter scoring threat with these 5, and frank isn't going to push the pace

The best way is to mix vets and youth in both the starters and Bench

I like

Portis
Randle
marcus
rj
dsj

bench

mitch
taj
knox
wellington
payton

injured reserves

trier
frank
dotson
iggy
bullock

martin wrote:

technomaster wrote:I think the best and most complete players on the team are:
Randle
RJ
Morris

These 3 should start and can play in any lineup. The bonus is that Randle and RJ can do some PG-ish things.

I don't like Randle handling the ball. His decision-making to me is not good enough. I can see him being a passer out of the post but don't want him to dominate the ball and he does exactly that. Too sticky.

I get that maybe he wanted to prove himself in front of the MSG crowd and try some things in preseason but I just don't think he is good enough or smart enough with the ball as much as he showed so far.

Well we all saw what happened in the last preseason game: Some costly mishaps by Randle. But I appreciated Fiz giving him the green light (at least in the preseason) to expand his comfort level with the ball in real game situations. He needs these experiences to grow.

I think he’s proven himself to be a solid enough passer out of the post - think Pau/Marc Gasol. This level of playmaking and willing passing from a big man hasn’t been seen on the Knicks since Ronny Turiaf’s short stint. It’s a welcome change coming from a number of black holes in recent years.