This roster is 15 deep. There are so many players that its no wonder there are so many varied views. If you come off a 17 game season after the string of as bad seasons its no doubt easier to write something bad then good. In retrospect Durant and Irving did not reject the knicks because it was never in the cards. The team is not even close to accepting that kind of talent.

The process going in to last season was to open up one max spot to compliment KP. The injury and subsequent self exile was a set back. While we opened up two max spots the gap between the youth andstars that were available was not really a fit. To make a run at AD would have been committing the sins of the past. That we did not is a sign of progress. That we have kids form Kentucky and Duke is a sign of progress. Add the status of DSM and Frank you have two kids with huge talent that are taking longer than expected,, but statistically one of them will be good. Mitch rejection of college and subsequent drop in draft was an opportunity. That we had such an awful season we were able to give him time on the floor. Same for Knox. These are things Dolans knicks have not done before.

If MIlls is at the center of this Change then perhaps because Dolan trusts him is not a bad thing, it could be the best thing to happen! If this agent of change sought his GM by choice (We sent a second round pick to compensate SAC)that among other talent could communicate with other GM’s and repair the damage done by Phil that is not a bad thing. NY media and fans want a guy that did things before so we can have faith. Thats a nice thing but if Dolan meddles its worthless. In Perry we have a guy with all the right stuff on his resume but not from the Popovich tree. When was the last time we had a President in place who hired his own GM? Let’s go one better when the last time we had a president, hire a GM, THEN hire a coach and build a staff? This is huge. Fiz comes from Riley Tree. He actually did ok his first season. The team was injured and in decline year two. He messed up under stress. Gasol messed up under stress. Fiz got the boot (and sympathy in the league for how it went down), His successor did not better, Gasol got traded and Memphis is rebuilding. He learned a hardy lesson. We got a young coach and our FO and staff are all on the same page. When was the last time that happened on the knicks?
Fiz lack of a system? Look at the roster and outlook from day one vs. Might take a bit of doing. We had mix of some veterans, youth and KP who vowed to return. By seasons end we had a very different look to the roster. Let the kids learn and feel the NBA or was it lack of a system?
Fans might differ and say Fiz can’t coach.

Nalod is baffled by the roster construction this year. Its deep. The immediate potential lies with Randle who could blossom but the real potential upside is the kids. The rest of the roster might be construed as very nice role players. On short contracts and mostly young it provides both opportunity and disappointment. Does it stunt or aid the development of youth? Will Fiz fix his rotations on training camp merit or potential? Do you not start the Duke and Kentucky blue chips?

If you all deep about the future you start:

Mitch
Randle
RJ
Frank
DSM

On paper its balanced. Back court is flexible. Fiz wanted to see those two the last 20 games. Its intriguing. RJ at 6-7 is sized nearly perfect at the three. My second line up is:

Portis
Morris
Knox
Trier
Peyton

I do that because these guys are pissed off and when in the game will be fun to watch. In fact, I could just as easy start this group too!
I’m sure many of you are like......Gibson? Dotson? Bullock? IggyBraz? Kadeem?..........Yeah, I don’t know. Here is where it gets funny, sub out Frank and put in Dotson and its works ( on paper). Start Gibson makes sense as he is the veteran while Mitch proves he is not a foul machine. Thats two on the scrap heap but can start as well. Frank either gets extended or traded. Simple. If we push Mitch to second unit, where does Portis or Morris fit? In fact one might say Morris should start?
One might say Morris so mean you let him decide?
Wayne Ellington? He could start. He could sit and never see the light of day. Was he cool with either scenario? Did we pay him to be a “cool with it veteran”? Bullock comes back at some point?
I can go on and on. I still might. We could argue each player all day long based on our bias and preferences. So many combinations we could argue this all day. And we will for weeks on end.

I’m looking forward to the puzzle that is this team!

Nalod wrote:So many varied views (and blogs) on the knicks roster. The negative is expected and deserved given the lack of success the last few years. Nalod’s pushback is given the fundamental normal process that now exists that is adding blue chip youthful talent its going to build to something.
KP was our turnaround but then became our setback.

This roster is 15 deep. There are so many players that its no wonder there are so many varied views. If you come off a 17 game season after the string of as bad seasons its no doubt easier to write something bad then good. In retrospect Durant and Irving did not reject the knicks because it was never in the cards. The team is not even close to accepting that kind of talent.

The process going in to last season was to open up one max spot to compliment KP. The injury and subsequent self exile was a set back. While we opened up two max spots the gap between the youth andstars that were available was not really a fit. To make a run at AD would have been committing the sins of the past. That we did not is a sign of progress. That we have kids form Kentucky and Duke is a sign of progress. Add the status of DSM and Frank you have two kids with huge talent that are taking longer than expected,, but statistically one of them will be good. Mitch rejection of college and subsequent drop in draft was an opportunity. That we had such an awful season we were able to give him time on the floor. Same for Knox. These are things Dolans knicks have not done before.

If MIlls is at the center of this Change then perhaps because Dolan trusts him is not a bad thing, it could be the best thing to happen! If this agent of change sought his GM by choice (We sent a second round pick to compensate SAC)that among other talent could communicate with other GM’s and repair the damage done by Phil that is not a bad thing. NY media and fans want a guy that did things before so we can have faith. Thats a nice thing but if Dolan meddles its worthless. In Perry we have a guy with all the right stuff on his resume but not from the Popovich tree. When was the last time we had a President in place who hired his own GM? Let’s go one better when the last time we had a president, hire a GM, THEN hire a coach and build a staff? This is huge. Fiz comes from Riley Tree. He actually did ok his first season. The team was injured and in decline year two. He messed up under stress. Gasol messed up under stress. Fiz got the boot (and sympathy in the league for how it went down), His successor did not better, Gasol got traded and Memphis is rebuilding. He learned a hardy lesson. We got a young coach and our FO and staff are all on the same page. When was the last time that happened on the knicks?
Fiz lack of a system? Look at the roster and outlook from day one vs. Might take a bit of doing. We had mix of some veterans, youth and KP who vowed to return. By seasons end we had a very different look to the roster. Let the kids learn and feel the NBA or was it lack of a system?
Fans might differ and say Fiz can’t coach.

Nalod is baffled by the roster construction this year. Its deep. The immediate potential lies with Randle who could blossom but the real potential upside is the kids. The rest of the roster might be construed as very nice role players. On short contracts and mostly young it provides both opportunity and disappointment. Does it stunt or aid the development of youth? Will Fiz fix his rotations on training camp merit or potential? Do you not start the Duke and Kentucky blue chips?

If you all deep about the future you start:

Mitch
Randle
RJ
Frank
DSM

On paper its balanced. Back court is flexible. Fiz wanted to see those two the last 20 games. Its intriguing. RJ at 6-7 is sized nearly perfect at the three. My second line up is:

Portis
Morris
Knox
Trier
Peyton

I do that because these guys are pissed off and when in the game will be fun to watch. In fact, I could just as easy start this group too!
I’m sure many of you are like......Gibson? Dotson? Bullock? IggyBraz? Kadeem?..........Yeah, I don’t know. Here is where it gets funny, sub out Frank and put in Dotson and its works ( on paper). Start Gibson makes sense as he is the veteran while Mitch proves he is not a foul machine. Thats two on the scrap heap but can start as well. Frank either gets extended or traded. Simple. If we push Mitch to second unit, where does Portis or Morris fit? In fact one might say Morris should start?
One might say Morris so mean you let him decide?
Wayne Ellington? He could start. He could sit and never see the light of day. Was he cool with either scenario? Did we pay him to be a “cool with it veteran”? Bullock comes back at some point?
I can go on and on. I still might. We could argue each player all day long based on our bias and preferences. So many combinations we could argue this all day. And we will for weeks on end.

I’m looking forward to the puzzle that is this team!

Triple is calling his attorneys as we speak...

This was Marvel Endgame without CGI lol.

Agree with the thrust of your "dissertation". We are a deep team, with a good number of role players, who have the skills to be on the roster, somwhere on a contender. We have dynamic PGs, dont believe we have seen a combo of PGs like Smith jr and Payton, in a very long time.

The cool thing is that they're gunning for the number one spot, and both playing for a contract (here or somewhere else) They're both at a crossroads in their respective careers. Expect them both to play hard.

Frank, I consider to be in a different category, because he is one step behind in his development. As in getting buckets. Not a scoring machine, but the threat to punish the D if Frank is left open. He is starting to show that at FIBA. My guess is that Fizdale is going to want to see Frank show that he can count on him to generate a certain amount of offense, as well as get to the line to start.

Knox isnt in Frank's league when it comes to D, but its getting better. That block and dish by Knox on Zion was fun to watch. What Knox can do is get buckets. Thats what you expect from a starter. One step a time. Frank needs to show first that he can be counted on as a reliable backup. Im guessing Frank would need to come back with a very noticeable improvement in his offense for Fizdale to push Knox out of the starting lineup. Dont think he wants to effectively demote Knox, unless someone really is playing so lights out, that it makes it hard for Fizdale not to start him.

Nalod wrote:Gust........Not a debate on my part. I literally have not idea or expectation on lineups. Not a question of Knox getting “demoted”. To me its where they all fit. Knox at PF or SF? I expect Randle to start.
Then its one of Gibson, Mitch, Morris or POrtis at C. Naturally all but Mitch can play PF.
At SF its JR or Knox. Start both? Ok. Fine by me.
Gets no easier at 1 and 2. I have no idea if Frank, Peyton or Dennis at the PG. At the Two, you have Dennis, Frank, ISO, RJ or Ellington.

Never followed a knick team this wide open at the start. Just Randle. One starter. Its not me being right or wrong. I’m interested in opinions here.

Morris is a SF/PF and will probably start at SF

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Gust........Not a debate on my part. I literally have not idea or expectation on lineups. Not a question of Knox getting "demoted". To me its where they all fit. Knox at PF or SF? I expect Randle to start.
Then its one of Gibson, Mitch, Morris or POrtis at C. Naturally all but Mitch can play PF.
At SF its JR or Knox. Start both? Ok. Fine by me.
Gets no easier at 1 and 2. I have no idea if Frank, Peyton or Dennis at the PG. At the Two, you have Dennis, Frank, ISO, RJ or Ellington.

Never followed a knick team this wide open at the start. Just Randle. One starter. Its not me being right or wrong. I'm interested in opinions here.

Got it. Was relaying my guess how Fizdale believes Knox would see a bench role after starting much of his rookie season. Would be somewhat deflating. Dont think he wants to bench the kid unless someone else outplays him in a big way. Keep his confidence up.

He didn't deserve to start last year. He hasn't earned it. That's why i always insist rookies nite start, So there's no "demotion" involved. Very rare are the rookies that can start in the NBA.

GustavBahler wrote:

Panos wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:Gust........Not a debate on my part. I literally have not idea or expectation on lineups. Not a question of Knox getting "demoted". To me its where they all fit. Knox at PF or SF? I expect Randle to start.
Then its one of Gibson, Mitch, Morris or POrtis at C. Naturally all but Mitch can play PF.
At SF its JR or Knox. Start both? Ok. Fine by me.
Gets no easier at 1 and 2. I have no idea if Frank, Peyton or Dennis at the PG. At the Two, you have Dennis, Frank, ISO, RJ or Ellington.

Never followed a knick team this wide open at the start. Just Randle. One starter. Its not me being right or wrong. I'm interested in opinions here.

Got it. Was relaying my guess how Fizdale believes Knox would see a bench role after starting much of his rookie season. Would be somewhat deflating. Dont think he wants to bench the kid unless someone else outplays him in a big way. Keep his confidence up.

He didn't deserve to start last year. He hasn't earned it. That's why i always insist rookies nite start, So there's no "demotion" involved. Very rare are the rookies that can start in the NBA.

Played well enough to win rookie of the month in Decemeber before the youngest player in the league ran out of gas. By the time the season ended, he was playing like a starter again. Once KP was traded, once it was clear Zion was one of the goals for this season, made sense to give Knox all the PT he could handle. When he did handle it, he played like a starter. Knox looks more like he is in NBA shape. Should have better endurance next season.

With Randle and Morris at the 3 & 4. I don't see how Knox starts.

Seems to me guys like Morris, Payton, Portis, Gibson, Ellington were added as the Knicks don't want to depend on the development of Knox, Frank, Smith, Mitch, Trier, Dotson in order to improve off the 17 win season. They seem to be willing to let these young guys play behind the vets for the year and maybe hand them the keys after. Unless they beat them out.

I can see Fiz giving Knox the backup stretch 4 role for the season while he builds off that and builds up his game. Barrett is gonna have to get mins at 3 as well in order for Trier to get burn at the 2 if he beats out Ellington.

newyorknewyork wrote:Also when Knox won rookie of the month he was shooting 40% from the field. He shot the 3 ball really well, but everything else was terrible. His offensive rating was a 99 and his defensive rating was 119. Both of these ratings are terrible.

How he produced last season doesn't translate to winning. Fizz can't bank on winning games with Knox getting 30 or more mins a game unless he proves other wise.

Towards the end of the season in March he shot the 3 ball at 43% which is great. But again everything else was pretty bad. So Fizz should use him as a 3 pt specialist if he is trying win games right now and let Knox build up his overall game as he ages.

Disagree with "everything else was bad" take. Knox was putting up these numbers while surrounded by the youngest starting team in the league. Was generating a good amount of offense without much help from teammates. For an 18 year old rookie thats impressive.

By the end of the season he was doing a better job of sharing the rock, Knox was attacking the rim from different angles, as opposed to just from the top of the key. Looked good in SL. Put up a game as a rook that only LeBron James has equaled at the same age.

Unless Morris does more than play just a little better than Knox, believe he will be starting. Guessing Morris has to take the job from Knox first. We'll see if he does.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Also when Knox won rookie of the month he was shooting 40% from the field. He shot the 3 ball really well, but everything else was terrible. His offensive rating was a 99 and his defensive rating was 119. Both of these ratings are terrible.

How he produced last season doesn't translate to winning. Fizz can't bank on winning games with Knox getting 30 or more mins a game unless he proves other wise.

Towards the end of the season in March he shot the 3 ball at 43% which is great. But again everything else was pretty bad. So Fizz should use him as a 3 pt specialist if he is trying win games right now and let Knox build up his overall game as he ages.

Disagree with "everything else was bad" take. Knox was putting up these numbers while surrounded by the youngest starting team in the league. Was generating a good amount of offense without much help from teammates. For an 18 year old rookie thats impressive.

By the end of the season he was doing a better job of sharing the rock, Knox was attacking the rim from different angles, as opposed to just from the top of the key. Looked good in SL. Put up a game as a rook that only LeBron James has equaled at the same age.

Unless Morris does more than play just a little better than Knox, believe he will be starting. Guessing Morris has to take the job from Knox first. We'll see if he does.

I think you are setting yourself up for disappointment then. Knox has a good deal of long term potential which he has shown flashes of a game here and a game there. But he isn’t at the stage of his career where he is gonna generate wins for Fizz. Knicks are gonna play to win this year. Which will mean leaning on vets like Morris. Which is why they were brought in.

Knox will probably be brought along slowly this year. Putting him in a position of strength, which is 3 point shooting. As he starts to show more consistency in other areas of his game. His role will expand.

Will be the same case for all the young players on the squad. Mitch & Barrett May be the only players on their rookie deals who start next season. But first gotta see how camp goes. Can’t wait!

Not a matter about how I feel about who starts. If Morris is showing a game that is clearly a cut above Knox's, at this point in his career, Im sure he will start. Thats fine with me. I disagree with your contention that Morris already has the job. Believe Fizdale will give Knox the opportunity to keep it. Knox looked more comfortable on the court in SL, never mind the numbers. His D looked better, he was a more willing passer, in part because of his being more comfortable with the rock.

You are basing next season's starting lineup based only on Knox's rookie season. Lets see how he looks in camp (from reports) and preseason. Lets see how Morris does. As I wrote upthread, dont believe Fizdale wants to bench Knox after spending so much time last season starting. Unless Morris is clearly a better choice. Well see.

I agree that this is going to be a wide open competition for the starting spot. I think 2 spots, C and PF, are already set. Mitch and Randle are penciled in. The question is who starts at the 3,2 and the 1. Everybody here knows that I am a big Frank fan so in my point of view...he starts.

Starting PG. Frank Ntilikina. Why? We need to have a pass first PG that knows how to manage a team. DSJr looks too much for his shot. Payton to me and Frank are similar but Frank has the edge on the defensive side. I love defense and controlling the other teams PG is the most important part in team defense. Hopefully, Franks outside shot is found.

Starting SG. DSJr. Why? I think he is our most dynamic player. He is capable defensively just not a willing defensive player. Like Frank, if he can find his outside shot then we are golden.

Starting SF. Morris. Why? We need that bulldog that will show the other teams we mean business. His outside shot will compliment Randle and DSJr drives to the paint. I see him getting time at the 4 as well.

Starting PF. Randle. Why? He is the alpha dog right now. He has proven that he can be the primary option last year. I think he will have a breakthrough year and be an All-Star.

Starting C. Robinson. Why? Pairing him Frank and protecting the rim is just a no brainer. I think he has a chance to be an All-Star sooner rather than later.

Bench mob.

Kevin Knox needs to come off the bench. Unless he gets better defensively, I see him as a 6th man for his career. He should be able to back-up the 3 and the 4 spot.

RJ Barrett can't start right away. The best way to develop him is to come off the bench. I truly believe that he will be Scottie Pippen 2.0. I would have backup only the 3 spot. I think the top 2 guards would eat him up alive right now.

Portis will be backing up 5 spot only. I think he gets in trouble when guarding the fleet footed stretch 4s.

Payton will be backing up the 1 spot only. Having Frank and Payton man the PG spot and having them pick up the defense from 94 feet will be awesome.

Dotson is our swiss army knife. Dude can play the 2 and the 3 and guard the 1 if DSJr plays at the one. His shot is getting there and his team first approach is beautiful.

Trier, Brazdeikis, Bullock, Ellington, Gibson, Allen is a nice group of bench players but the top 10 I selected are either the future of Knicks or somebody that can help the players of the future to get there faster.

I can actually see Trier getting traded for a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder.

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Fiz will have a 10 man rotation.

I agree that this is going to be a wide open competition for the starting spot. I think 2 spots, C and PF, are already set. Mitch and Randle are penciled in. The question is who starts at the 3,2 and the 1. Everybody here knows that I am a big Frank fan so in my point of view...he starts.

Starting PG. Frank Ntilikina. Why? We need to have a pass first PG that knows how to manage a team. DSJr looks too much for his shot. Payton to me and Frank are similar but Frank has the edge on the defensive side. I love defense and controlling the other teams PG is the most important part in team defense. Hopefully, Franks outside shot is found.

Starting SG. DSJr. Why? I think he is our most dynamic player. He is capable defensively just not a willing defensive player. Like Frank, if he can find his outside shot then we are golden.

Starting SF. Morris. Why? We need that bulldog that will show the other teams we mean business. His outside shot will compliment Randle and DSJr drives to the paint. I see him getting time at the 4 as well.

Starting PF. Randle. Why? He is the alpha dog right now. He has proven that he can be the primary option last year. I think he will have a breakthrough year and be an All-Star.

Starting C. Robinson. Why? Pairing him Frank and protecting the rim is just a no brainer. I think he has a chance to be an All-Star sooner rather than later.

Bench mob.

Kevin Knox needs to come off the bench. Unless he gets better defensively, I see him as a 6th man for his career. He should be able to back-up the 3 and the 4 spot.

RJ Barrett can't start right away. The best way to develop him is to come off the bench. I truly believe that he will be Scottie Pippen 2.0. I would have backup only the 3 spot. I think the top 2 guards would eat him up alive right now.

Portis will be backing up 5 spot only. I think he gets in trouble when guarding the fleet footed stretch 4s.

Payton will be backing up the 1 spot only. Having Frank and Payton man the PG spot and having them pick up the defense from 94 feet will be awesome.

Dotson is our swiss army knife. Dude can play the 2 and the 3 and guard the 1 if DSJr plays at the one. His shot is getting there and his team first approach is beautiful.

Trier, Brazdeikis, Bullock, Ellington, Gibson, Allen is a nice group of bench players but the top 10 I selected are either the future of Knicks or somebody that can help the players of the future to get there faster.

I can actually see Trier getting traded for a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder.

The only way frank gets PT as a PG or a SG, is py pushing the pace, and be aggressive like DSJ on offensive, ALL THE TIME, EVERY GAME. This is the NBA, not they Olympics or france.

In the NBA they play fast and shoot 3's, defense is almost optional in this ERA of basketball

Teams that win with a fast pace offense are good defensive teams. Look it up. GSW and Miami in the post triangle era. Not big, but quick to block passing lanes and pressure the ball. When Miami lost it first finals in the Lebron era he relented and accepted the defense concept. Fiz was there.
Since you love the idea of hiring guys that come from winning organizations you should love Fiz. The gig in Memphis was not good. It was short and he garnered a lot of support with the way it was handled. Maybe it was for the best as coaches are educators and educators have to learn them selves.
The Heat won 2 chips and lost twice in the finals. Some good learning there too.
Nothing is linear and can be replicated from one franchise to another. But experience can. President>GM>Head coach. All on board in one direction.
Teams that win in transition have to have good defense. Mitch is a great anchor for the future there. Capela fuels Rockets attack. GSW great perimeter defense. Miami before won its rings on defense. Look it up. Before that Pop/Spurs and Phils Lakers. Defense. It may be optional but so is winning.

Rainman, don't forget your boy Woodson, who is off the Larry Brown tree preached the defense. It was his job. Pop, he off the Larry brown Tree too. They got rings. We don't. Frank is not the end all of defense and we all know you want him bansished from the knicks. Steals, deflections, rebounds and Block shots are how you run teams off the court. Frank is a good open court passer and runs that PNR wonderfully. You don't have to be a fan, but you should root for the kid to succeed.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Fiz will have a 10 man rotation.

I agree that this is going to be a wide open competition for the starting spot. I think 2 spots, C and PF, are already set. Mitch and Randle are penciled in. The question is who starts at the 3,2 and the 1. Everybody here knows that I am a big Frank fan so in my point of view...he starts.

Starting PG. Frank Ntilikina. Why? We need to have a pass first PG that knows how to manage a team. DSJr looks too much for his shot. Payton to me and Frank are similar but Frank has the edge on the defensive side. I love defense and controlling the other teams PG is the most important part in team defense. Hopefully, Franks outside shot is found.

Starting SG. DSJr. Why? I think he is our most dynamic player. He is capable defensively just not a willing defensive player. Like Frank, if he can find his outside shot then we are golden.

Starting SF. Morris. Why? We need that bulldog that will show the other teams we mean business. His outside shot will compliment Randle and DSJr drives to the paint. I see him getting time at the 4 as well.

Starting PF. Randle. Why? He is the alpha dog right now. He has proven that he can be the primary option last year. I think he will have a breakthrough year and be an All-Star.

Starting C. Robinson. Why? Pairing him Frank and protecting the rim is just a no brainer. I think he has a chance to be an All-Star sooner rather than later.

Bench mob.

Kevin Knox needs to come off the bench. Unless he gets better defensively, I see him as a 6th man for his career. He should be able to back-up the 3 and the 4 spot.

RJ Barrett can't start right away. The best way to develop him is to come off the bench. I truly believe that he will be Scottie Pippen 2.0. I would have backup only the 3 spot. I think the top 2 guards would eat him up alive right now.

Portis will be backing up 5 spot only. I think he gets in trouble when guarding the fleet footed stretch 4s.

Payton will be backing up the 1 spot only. Having Frank and Payton man the PG spot and having them pick up the defense from 94 feet will be awesome.

Dotson is our swiss army knife. Dude can play the 2 and the 3 and guard the 1 if DSJr plays at the one. His shot is getting there and his team first approach is beautiful.

Trier, Brazdeikis, Bullock, Ellington, Gibson, Allen is a nice group of bench players but the top 10 I selected are either the future of Knicks or somebody that can help the players of the future to get there faster.

I can actually see Trier getting traded for a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder.

The only way frank gets PT as a PG or a SG, is py pushing the pace, and be aggressive like DSJ on offensive, ALL THE TIME, EVERY GAME. This is the NBA, not they Olympics or france.

In the NBA they play fast and shoot 3's, defense is almost optional in this ERA of basketball

Teams that win with a fast pace offense are good defensive teams. Look it up. GSW and Miami in the post triangle era. Not big, but quick to block passing lanes and pressure the ball. When Miami lost it first finals in the Lebron era he relented and accepted the defense concept. Fiz was there.
Since you love the idea of hiring guys that come from winning organizations you should love Fiz. The gig in Memphis was not good. It was short and he garnered a lot of support with the way it was handled. Maybe it was for the best as coaches are educators and educators have to learn them selves.
The Heat won 2 chips and lost twice in the finals. Some good learning there too.
Nothing is linear and can be replicated from one franchise to another. But experience can. President>GM>Head coach. All on board in one direction.
Teams that win in transition have to have good defense. Mitch is a great anchor for the future there. Capela fuels Rockets attack. GSW great perimeter defense. Miami before won its rings on defense. Look it up. Before that Pop/Spurs and Phils Lakers. Defense. It may be optional but so is winning.

Rainman, don't forget your boy Woodson, who is off the Larry Brown tree preached the defense. It was his job. Pop, he off the Larry brown Tree too. They got rings. We don't. Frank is not the end all of defense and we all know you want him bansished from the knicks. Steals, deflections, rebounds and Block shots are how you run teams off the court. Frank is a good open court passer and runs that PNR wonderfully. You don't have to be a fan, but you should root for the kid to succeed.

Fiz didn't have to deal with Tanking and dysfunction while under Pat riley, and certainly wasn't doing any play calling.

Fiz is a good dude, but he is more suited to be an assistant, a good one at it.

Dolan and Mills are not interested in winning, and have no clue on how to build a winner

TOM Thibodeau is a good head coach, but when Minny gave him the president title..that was too much...he started bringing in his veteran Bulls players who really didnt mix with the young guys attitudes towards winning..so that started dysfunction and he got fired

Certain ppl are good at certain things, and should stay in that role..

Steve Novak was a great 3 point shooter, should MDA expanded his role into point Forward or Center..Put ppl in the right roles and they will have success...we don't do that at all, on no level

To have roles you first need to have a script.
To have script you need to have an idea of what you are dealing with.
Knick were and still mostly are an empty shell of a team.
Rebuild is about feeling the empty shell first and we did some but not much yet.
Fiz had nothing to work with as an NBA coach. Just development and communications.
This year he may get something to work with... but this is the best case scenario.
If his role with the Knicks will be limited to development stage of rebuild it is not a big deal also.
We will get another coach down the road.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think Fiz will have a 10 man rotation.

I agree that this is going to be a wide open competition for the starting spot. I think 2 spots, C and PF, are already set. Mitch and Randle are penciled in. The question is who starts at the 3,2 and the 1. Everybody here knows that I am a big Frank fan so in my point of view...he starts.

Starting PG. Frank Ntilikina. Why? We need to have a pass first PG that knows how to manage a team. DSJr looks too much for his shot. Payton to me and Frank are similar but Frank has the edge on the defensive side. I love defense and controlling the other teams PG is the most important part in team defense. Hopefully, Franks outside shot is found.

Starting SG. DSJr. Why? I think he is our most dynamic player. He is capable defensively just not a willing defensive player. Like Frank, if he can find his outside shot then we are golden.

Starting SF. Morris. Why? We need that bulldog that will show the other teams we mean business. His outside shot will compliment Randle and DSJr drives to the paint. I see him getting time at the 4 as well.

Starting PF. Randle. Why? He is the alpha dog right now. He has proven that he can be the primary option last year. I think he will have a breakthrough year and be an All-Star.

Starting C. Robinson. Why? Pairing him Frank and protecting the rim is just a no brainer. I think he has a chance to be an All-Star sooner rather than later.

Bench mob.

Kevin Knox needs to come off the bench. Unless he gets better defensively, I see him as a 6th man for his career. He should be able to back-up the 3 and the 4 spot.

RJ Barrett can't start right away. The best way to develop him is to come off the bench. I truly believe that he will be Scottie Pippen 2.0. I would have backup only the 3 spot. I think the top 2 guards would eat him up alive right now.

Portis will be backing up 5 spot only. I think he gets in trouble when guarding the fleet footed stretch 4s.

Payton will be backing up the 1 spot only. Having Frank and Payton man the PG spot and having them pick up the defense from 94 feet will be awesome.

Dotson is our swiss army knife. Dude can play the 2 and the 3 and guard the 1 if DSJr plays at the one. His shot is getting there and his team first approach is beautiful.

Trier, Brazdeikis, Bullock, Ellington, Gibson, Allen is a nice group of bench players but the top 10 I selected are either the future of Knicks or somebody that can help the players of the future to get there faster.

I can actually see Trier getting traded for a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder.

The only way frank gets PT as a PG or a SG, is py pushing the pace, and be aggressive like DSJ on offensive, ALL THE TIME, EVERY GAME. This is the NBA, not they Olympics or france.

In the NBA they play fast and shoot 3's, defense is almost optional in this ERA of basketball

Teams that win with a fast pace offense are good defensive teams. Look it up. GSW and Miami in the post triangle era. Not big, but quick to block passing lanes and pressure the ball. When Miami lost it first finals in the Lebron era he relented and accepted the defense concept. Fiz was there.
Since you love the idea of hiring guys that come from winning organizations you should love Fiz. The gig in Memphis was not good. It was short and he garnered a lot of support with the way it was handled. Maybe it was for the best as coaches are educators and educators have to learn them selves.
The Heat won 2 chips and lost twice in the finals. Some good learning there too.
Nothing is linear and can be replicated from one franchise to another. But experience can. President>GM>Head coach. All on board in one direction.
Teams that win in transition have to have good defense. Mitch is a great anchor for the future there. Capela fuels Rockets attack. GSW great perimeter defense. Miami before won its rings on defense. Look it up. Before that Pop/Spurs and Phils Lakers. Defense. It may be optional but so is winning.

Rainman, don't forget your boy Woodson, who is off the Larry Brown tree preached the defense. It was his job. Pop, he off the Larry brown Tree too. They got rings. We don't. Frank is not the end all of defense and we all know you want him bansished from the knicks. Steals, deflections, rebounds and Block shots are how you run teams off the court. Frank is a good open court passer and runs that PNR wonderfully. You don't have to be a fan, but you should root for the kid to succeed.

Fiz didn't have to deal with Tanking and dysfunction while under Pat riley, and certainly wasn't doing any play calling.

Fiz is a good dude, but he is more suited to be an assistant, a good one at it.

Dolan and Mills are not interested in winning, and have no clue on how to build a winner

TOM Thibodeau is a good head coach, but when Minny gave him the president title..that was too much...he started bringing in his veteran Bulls players who really didnt mix with the young guys attitudes towards winning..so that started dysfunction and he got fired

Certain ppl are good at certain things, and should stay in that role..

Steve Novak was a great 3 point shooter, should MDA expanded his role into point Forward or Center..Put ppl in the right roles and they will have success...we don't do that at all, on no level

Who was calling the plays in Miami? You don't know. Was Fiz making the Defensive adjustments when he was top assistant? I don't know.......But he was top assistant when Rothstein retired.
Dolan and Mills not interested in Winning? I'd say Dolan by the roster construction was interested in keeping the team competitive to keep revenue up. Why do you think Mills does not want to win?
These are your opinions, cool. Give some basis to your impressions.
Thibs did what he knows. Not sure where you got that from.
In your book you have a strong bias that unless a person has been successful they likely won't be. That if successful before it will transfer. You make assumptions that Executives and coaches don't evolve or learn from experience. That's the impression you give.

I love you slipped into Novak and MDA.

Nalod based on Dolans words and actions thinks Dolan wants to win but has been impatient and is not a strong leader. Thus the constant starphuch.
I agree Fiz has a hell of a job ahead of him with a balance of very good youth and nice Vets. One can say its a disfunction of the FO if your a Rainman, or overly analytical like Nalod and say "its a opportunity of unknown origin"!

I think Technomaster has a good take on the potential. To win games we need a closer. I don't really see who that is just yet. Randle would be the easy first candidate. DSjr up next.
Im not salty on the upcoming season. Im fascinated.

I'd say its broken down into segments. How we start, how we evolve, and how we finish are all to have different looks. Injuries and trades all factor. It will happen.