So, I asked him, how does it feel when people say he won only because he had Jordan, Pippen, O’Neal and Bryant? He brightened. “Feels great!” he said. “I’m so glad I had those players. Made all the difference.”

Love this article. Quotes from players and coaches. This writer Nicholas Dawidoff did his work on this one. Read the book, used interesting art forms and extensive interviews. This was written in 2015. Good to read of Jordan and Kobe. Great stuff on Tex Winter. Worth the 15 minutes to sit and have a good read. Well done!! Deserves its own thread.
Very objective pro and con.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/sports/basketball/phil-jackson-knicks-triangle-offense-nba.html?module=inline

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

“A lot of great coaches”............
Abstract statement isn’t it? It might be true, but it don’t work that way. NObody wins with out talent. 11 rings is a testament.

A lot of great coaches did not embrace the triangle like PHil or Kerr did. To me the article was not just about Phil, it gave homage to Tex and his passion. PHil harnessed it and added spirituality.

Phil failed to install his vision here for a myriad of reasons. After revisiting that vision in this article it really was quite an ambitious undertaking to replicate.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

Thats coaching, We were running the Triangle (or at least trying) with Rose and what did he do? Call his number most of the time, play hero ball. D'antoni's system wasnt the problem in NY, it was his coaching. MDA didnt care if it was a good look at the rim would just yell "keep shooting". Other coaches have taken MDA's system, but insisted on better shot selection.

The Triangle, SSOL, are only as good as the coaches who run them.

Coaches need talent. Plain and simple. Great coaches make it look easy so we then say "Hey, Anyone could coach that........"

A number of great coaches could have won with Jordan? But they didn't.
Nash and Harden were all stars, but not MVPs!!!! Jordan and Kobe have any rings outside of Phil? Nope.
Kerr elevated a good team into a great one. I've been around here long enough to see how Knick fans devalue guys like Larry Brown, MDA, Nelson, but look at the rosters they had. MDA in my mind got validated with what he has done in Houston. That is no championshop roster and to me he takes them further than what is on paper. Great coaches don't always have great rosters.

It is comical to insinuate Phil was not as great because he had great talent. If you read his books he gives a ton of credit to the players especially when they bought into the team concept. The way Michael embraced Rodman as told by phil was a great read. Rodman tried to kick up but rather than isolate him Michael and Dennis stayed up one night smoked cigars and drank. They let Dennis be dennis until he saw he was being a problem They used different rules for Rodman.
Phil devised that stragegy. Not pure X's and O's but a culture. He permitted a double standard until the team took care of itself. Phil was known to lay back and let the team sort thru its issues. That was seen as a lack of coaching but the fact is a good team knows what to do. Its created in practice. All that zen stuff worked when the players bought in. Kobe did not always buy in.

Don't have to take my word for it. He has more rings than anyone. Yes he had Shaq and Kobe. But he also had to coach them. Maybe a better coach could have gotten more from them? Open concept. The rings are where they are.

As for this stint as knick president? Great idea. Badly executed. Bad result. Too old? Too Arrogant? Too ambitious? Perhaps. He hired Kerr. I guess when he had health issues he resigns. Painful enough to rebuild in NYC. Fish? Good idea. Not the right guy. He was not ready for the commitment. Rambis? He was Herb Willimas. If he made the playoffs maybe. He didn't. He got exiled as he should. Hornacek? Not awful. He wanted to mentor Luke Walton.

I thought Phil too was cooked and he handled KP wrong at the time. In retrospect he might have been correct all along. He got fired for wanting to trade KP. Fact is, we did.

Does any of this add up to justify keeping him? No. The triangle was for him and Tex to teach and install. Not administer. The article was a great readable history of the Triangle and Tex winters unique traits as a coach and as a man. If you can't away from an article like that with some appreciation for his history, What Krause did in ChiTown, Jordan, Jax, and winters...........you might be a die hard knick fan, but your missing out. I admit I hated the bulls and Jordan. I learned in their second threepeat to better appreciate the greatness that was. I vowed to not be a homer to the degree of not appreciating other teams. The bulls were special. The Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau were special. but winning with Robert Horry, Fox, Walton, Fish was also to be admired.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

Thats coaching, We were running the Triangle (or at least trying) with Rose and what did he do? Call his number most of the time, play hero ball. D'antoni's system wasnt the problem in NY, it was his coaching. MDA didnt care if it was a good look at the rim would just yell "keep shooting". Other coaches have taken MDA's system, but insisted on better shot selection.

The Triangle, SSOL, are only as good as the coaches who run them.

Coaches need talent. Plain and simple. Great coaches make it look easy so we then say "Hey, Anyone could coach that........"

A number of great coaches could have won with Jordan? But they didn't.
Nash and Harden were all stars, but not MVPs!!!! Jordan and Kobe have any rings outside of Phil? Nope.
Kerr elevated a good team into a great one. I've been around here long enough to see how Knick fans devalue guys like Larry Brown, MDA, Nelson, but look at the rosters they had. MDA in my mind got validated with what he has done in Houston. That is no championshop roster and to me he takes them further than what is on paper. Great coaches don't always have great rosters.

It is comical to insinuate Phil was not as great because he had great talent. If you read his books he gives a ton of credit to the players especially when they bought into the team concept. The way Michael embraced Rodman as told by phil was a great read. Rodman tried to kick up but rather than isolate him Michael and Dennis stayed up one night smoked cigars and drank. They let Dennis be dennis until he saw he was being a problem They used different rules for Rodman.
Phil devised that stragegy. Not pure X's and O's but a culture. He permitted a double standard until the team took care of itself. Phil was known to lay back and let the team sort thru its issues. That was seen as a lack of coaching but the fact is a good team knows what to do. Its created in practice. All that zen stuff worked when the players bought in. Kobe did not always buy in.

Don't have to take my word for it. He has more rings than anyone. Yes he had Shaq and Kobe. But he also had to coach them. Maybe a better coach could have gotten more from them? Open concept. The rings are where they are.

As for this stint as knick president? Great idea. Badly executed. Bad result. Too old? Too Arrogant? Too ambitious? Perhaps. He hired Kerr. I guess when he had health issues he resigns. Painful enough to rebuild in NYC. Fish? Good idea. Not the right guy. He was not ready for the commitment. Rambis? He was Herb Willimas. If he made the playoffs maybe. He didn't. He got exiled as he should. Hornacek? Not awful. He wanted to mentor Luke Walton.

I thought Phil too was cooked and he handled KP wrong at the time. In retrospect he might have been correct all along. He got fired for wanting to trade KP. Fact is, we did.

Does any of this add up to justify keeping him? No. The triangle was for him and Tex to teach and install. Not administer. The article was a great readable history of the Triangle and Tex winters unique traits as a coach and as a man. If you can't away from an article like that with some appreciation for his history, What Krause did in ChiTown, Jordan, Jax, and winters...........you might be a die hard knick fan, but your missing out. I admit I hated the bulls and Jordan. I learned in their second threepeat to better appreciate the greatness that was. I vowed to not be a homer to the degree of not appreciating other teams. The bulls were special. The Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau were special. but winning with Robert Horry, Fox, Walton, Fish was also to be admired.

Just wrote its about the coach, not the system. The 72 win Bulls could have one with a more traditional system, with the talent on hand. That and Phil. The Triangle was just another tool in the toolbox for a talented team and coach. You treat it almost as if it were a religion.

Phil was a God awful exec in NY, thats the only legacy worth talking about on a Knicks board. Not what he was, long before he came back to NY...occasionally.

Yes the Bulls could have won with another system but they didn’t. Yes the Lakers could have won with another system but they didn’t. You think Jordan goes perfect using another system? You think Kobe would have won as many using another system.

Man some of you guys will go to extremes just to hate on Phil. The man set this stupid franchise which wasn’t exactly winning anything and gave it direction of youth. Yet some of you can’t see past a bad deal which every GM/President seems to have.

Phil is a great coach and arguably the greatest coach of all time. So tired of Phil bashing. He is a Knick for life and wears the NYK rings.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

Thats coaching, We were running the Triangle (or at least trying) with Rose and what did he do? Call his number most of the time, play hero ball. D'antoni's system wasnt the problem in NY, it was his coaching. MDA didnt care if it was a good look at the rim would just yell "keep shooting". Other coaches have taken MDA's system, but insisted on better shot selection.

The Triangle, SSOL, are only as good as the coaches who run them.

Coaches need talent. Plain and simple. Great coaches make it look easy so we then say "Hey, Anyone could coach that........"

A number of great coaches could have won with Jordan? But they didn't.
Nash and Harden were all stars, but not MVPs!!!! Jordan and Kobe have any rings outside of Phil? Nope.
Kerr elevated a good team into a great one. I've been around here long enough to see how Knick fans devalue guys like Larry Brown, MDA, Nelson, but look at the rosters they had. MDA in my mind got validated with what he has done in Houston. That is no championshop roster and to me he takes them further than what is on paper. Great coaches don't always have great rosters.

It is comical to insinuate Phil was not as great because he had great talent. If you read his books he gives a ton of credit to the players especially when they bought into the team concept. The way Michael embraced Rodman as told by phil was a great read. Rodman tried to kick up but rather than isolate him Michael and Dennis stayed up one night smoked cigars and drank. They let Dennis be dennis until he saw he was being a problem They used different rules for Rodman.
Phil devised that stragegy. Not pure X's and O's but a culture. He permitted a double standard until the team took care of itself. Phil was known to lay back and let the team sort thru its issues. That was seen as a lack of coaching but the fact is a good team knows what to do. Its created in practice. All that zen stuff worked when the players bought in. Kobe did not always buy in.

Don't have to take my word for it. He has more rings than anyone. Yes he had Shaq and Kobe. But he also had to coach them. Maybe a better coach could have gotten more from them? Open concept. The rings are where they are.

As for this stint as knick president? Great idea. Badly executed. Bad result. Too old? Too Arrogant? Too ambitious? Perhaps. He hired Kerr. I guess when he had health issues he resigns. Painful enough to rebuild in NYC. Fish? Good idea. Not the right guy. He was not ready for the commitment. Rambis? He was Herb Willimas. If he made the playoffs maybe. He didn't. He got exiled as he should. Hornacek? Not awful. He wanted to mentor Luke Walton.

I thought Phil too was cooked and he handled KP wrong at the time. In retrospect he might have been correct all along. He got fired for wanting to trade KP. Fact is, we did.

Does any of this add up to justify keeping him? No. The triangle was for him and Tex to teach and install. Not administer. The article was a great readable history of the Triangle and Tex winters unique traits as a coach and as a man. If you can't away from an article like that with some appreciation for his history, What Krause did in ChiTown, Jordan, Jax, and winters...........you might be a die hard knick fan, but your missing out. I admit I hated the bulls and Jordan. I learned in their second threepeat to better appreciate the greatness that was. I vowed to not be a homer to the degree of not appreciating other teams. The bulls were special. The Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau were special. but winning with Robert Horry, Fox, Walton, Fish was also to be admired.

Just wrote its about the coach, not the system. The 72 win Bulls could have one with a more traditional system, with the talent on hand. That and Phil. The Triangle was just another tool in the toolbox for a talented team and coach. You treat it almost as if it were a religion.

Phil was a God awful exec in NY, thats the only legacy worth talking about on a Knicks board. Not what he was, long before he came back to NY...occasionally.

Yes the Bulls could have won with another system but they didn’t. Yes the Lakers could have won with another system but they didn’t. You think Jordan goes perfect using another system? You think Kobe would have won as many using another system.

Man some of you guys will go to extremes just to hate on Phil. The man set this stupid franchise which wasn’t exactly winning anything and gave it direction of youth. Yet some of you can’t see past a bad deal which every GM/President seems to have.

Phil is a great coach and arguably the greatest coach of all time. So tired of Phil bashing. He is a Knick for life and wears the NYK rings.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

Thats coaching, We were running the Triangle (or at least trying) with Rose and what did he do? Call his number most of the time, play hero ball. D'antoni's system wasnt the problem in NY, it was his coaching. MDA didnt care if it was a good look at the rim would just yell "keep shooting". Other coaches have taken MDA's system, but insisted on better shot selection.

The Triangle, SSOL, are only as good as the coaches who run them.

Coaches need talent. Plain and simple. Great coaches make it look easy so we then say "Hey, Anyone could coach that........"

A number of great coaches could have won with Jordan? But they didn't.
Nash and Harden were all stars, but not MVPs!!!! Jordan and Kobe have any rings outside of Phil? Nope.
Kerr elevated a good team into a great one. I've been around here long enough to see how Knick fans devalue guys like Larry Brown, MDA, Nelson, but look at the rosters they had. MDA in my mind got validated with what he has done in Houston. That is no championshop roster and to me he takes them further than what is on paper. Great coaches don't always have great rosters.

It is comical to insinuate Phil was not as great because he had great talent. If you read his books he gives a ton of credit to the players especially when they bought into the team concept. The way Michael embraced Rodman as told by phil was a great read. Rodman tried to kick up but rather than isolate him Michael and Dennis stayed up one night smoked cigars and drank. They let Dennis be dennis until he saw he was being a problem They used different rules for Rodman.
Phil devised that stragegy. Not pure X's and O's but a culture. He permitted a double standard until the team took care of itself. Phil was known to lay back and let the team sort thru its issues. That was seen as a lack of coaching but the fact is a good team knows what to do. Its created in practice. All that zen stuff worked when the players bought in. Kobe did not always buy in.

Don't have to take my word for it. He has more rings than anyone. Yes he had Shaq and Kobe. But he also had to coach them. Maybe a better coach could have gotten more from them? Open concept. The rings are where they are.

As for this stint as knick president? Great idea. Badly executed. Bad result. Too old? Too Arrogant? Too ambitious? Perhaps. He hired Kerr. I guess when he had health issues he resigns. Painful enough to rebuild in NYC. Fish? Good idea. Not the right guy. He was not ready for the commitment. Rambis? He was Herb Willimas. If he made the playoffs maybe. He didn't. He got exiled as he should. Hornacek? Not awful. He wanted to mentor Luke Walton.

I thought Phil too was cooked and he handled KP wrong at the time. In retrospect he might have been correct all along. He got fired for wanting to trade KP. Fact is, we did.

Does any of this add up to justify keeping him? No. The triangle was for him and Tex to teach and install. Not administer. The article was a great readable history of the Triangle and Tex winters unique traits as a coach and as a man. If you can't away from an article like that with some appreciation for his history, What Krause did in ChiTown, Jordan, Jax, and winters...........you might be a die hard knick fan, but your missing out. I admit I hated the bulls and Jordan. I learned in their second threepeat to better appreciate the greatness that was. I vowed to not be a homer to the degree of not appreciating other teams. The bulls were special. The Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau were special. but winning with Robert Horry, Fox, Walton, Fish was also to be admired.

Just wrote its about the coach, not the system. The 72 win Bulls could have one with a more traditional system, with the talent on hand. That and Phil. The Triangle was just another tool in the toolbox for a talented team and coach. You treat it almost as if it were a religion.

Phil was a God awful exec in NY, thats the only legacy worth talking about on a Knicks board. Not what he was, long before he came back to NY...occasionally.

Yes the Bulls could have won with another system but they didn’t. Yes the Lakers could have won with another system but they didn’t. You think Jordan goes perfect using another system? You think Kobe would have won as many using another system.

Man some of you guys will go to extremes just to hate on Phil. The man set this stupid franchise which wasn’t exactly winning anything and gave it direction of youth. Yet some of you can’t see past a bad deal which every GM/President seems to have.

Phil is a great coach and arguably the greatest coach of all time. So tired of Phil bashing. He is a Knick for life and wears the NYK rings.

Great! Then we agree. So how about we stop treating the Triangle like it was out of some book in Harry Potter?

80-166

For the first 2 years I defended Phil's move, because he wasnt handing out bad deals. Was trying to develop youth. Lost me when Noah/Rose were brought to NY. Awful move the team is still paying for with Noah. All this "Phil hater" stuff is silly. Watched him as a player at MSG, wanted him to represent. All he represented was a desire to do as little work as possible for that mega contract.

I might imagine this happening if Phil went to a bad small market team. Too old and rich to care.
Not the Knicks. Not where he really learned the game. Players couldnt even talk to him in the hallway.

Enough with the hero worship. Phil was a great coach and a lousy exec.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They could have run "ring around the rosie" and still won those chips, lol. Let Phil rest in peace!

You didn’t read it did you? Keeping it real..........

I was the one who first posted this article on UK. Not saying that Phil was a lousy coach. I am saying that a lot of great coaches could have run their system and achieved the same results, with the talent on hand.

I'm not so sure about that, talent is only part of the equation, phil taught Jordan how to play winning basketball instead of hero ball, he also raised the IQ of all his players, and again, these players they acquired fit the system like a glove.

A perfect example of of fit is Steve Novak and JR Smith under MDA and Mike woodson(who used much of Mda's system)those 2 had career yrs because of the system.

Thats coaching, We were running the Triangle (or at least trying) with Rose and what did he do? Call his number most of the time, play hero ball. D'antoni's system wasnt the problem in NY, it was his coaching. MDA didnt care if it was a good look at the rim would just yell "keep shooting". Other coaches have taken MDA's system, but insisted on better shot selection.

The Triangle, SSOL, are only as good as the coaches who run them.

Coaches need talent. Plain and simple. Great coaches make it look easy so we then say "Hey, Anyone could coach that........"

A number of great coaches could have won with Jordan? But they didn't.
Nash and Harden were all stars, but not MVPs!!!! Jordan and Kobe have any rings outside of Phil? Nope.
Kerr elevated a good team into a great one. I've been around here long enough to see how Knick fans devalue guys like Larry Brown, MDA, Nelson, but look at the rosters they had. MDA in my mind got validated with what he has done in Houston. That is no championshop roster and to me he takes them further than what is on paper. Great coaches don't always have great rosters.

It is comical to insinuate Phil was not as great because he had great talent. If you read his books he gives a ton of credit to the players especially when they bought into the team concept. The way Michael embraced Rodman as told by phil was a great read. Rodman tried to kick up but rather than isolate him Michael and Dennis stayed up one night smoked cigars and drank. They let Dennis be dennis until he saw he was being a problem They used different rules for Rodman.
Phil devised that stragegy. Not pure X's and O's but a culture. He permitted a double standard until the team took care of itself. Phil was known to lay back and let the team sort thru its issues. That was seen as a lack of coaching but the fact is a good team knows what to do. Its created in practice. All that zen stuff worked when the players bought in. Kobe did not always buy in.

Don't have to take my word for it. He has more rings than anyone. Yes he had Shaq and Kobe. But he also had to coach them. Maybe a better coach could have gotten more from them? Open concept. The rings are where they are.

As for this stint as knick president? Great idea. Badly executed. Bad result. Too old? Too Arrogant? Too ambitious? Perhaps. He hired Kerr. I guess when he had health issues he resigns. Painful enough to rebuild in NYC. Fish? Good idea. Not the right guy. He was not ready for the commitment. Rambis? He was Herb Willimas. If he made the playoffs maybe. He didn't. He got exiled as he should. Hornacek? Not awful. He wanted to mentor Luke Walton.

I thought Phil too was cooked and he handled KP wrong at the time. In retrospect he might have been correct all along. He got fired for wanting to trade KP. Fact is, we did.

Does any of this add up to justify keeping him? No. The triangle was for him and Tex to teach and install. Not administer. The article was a great readable history of the Triangle and Tex winters unique traits as a coach and as a man. If you can't away from an article like that with some appreciation for his history, What Krause did in ChiTown, Jordan, Jax, and winters...........you might be a die hard knick fan, but your missing out. I admit I hated the bulls and Jordan. I learned in their second threepeat to better appreciate the greatness that was. I vowed to not be a homer to the degree of not appreciating other teams. The bulls were special. The Lakers with Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Pau were special. but winning with Robert Horry, Fox, Walton, Fish was also to be admired.

Just wrote its about the coach, not the system. The 72 win Bulls could have one with a more traditional system, with the talent on hand. That and Phil. The Triangle was just another tool in the toolbox for a talented team and coach. You treat it almost as if it were a religion.

Phil was a God awful exec in NY, thats the only legacy worth talking about on a Knicks board. Not what he was, long before he came back to NY...occasionally.

Yes the Bulls could have won with another system but they didn’t. Yes the Lakers could have won with another system but they didn’t. You think Jordan goes perfect using another system? You think Kobe would have won as many using another system.

Man some of you guys will go to extremes just to hate on Phil. The man set this stupid franchise which wasn’t exactly winning anything and gave it direction of youth. Yet some of you can’t see past a bad deal which every GM/President seems to have.

Phil is a great coach and arguably the greatest coach of all time. So tired of Phil bashing. He is a Knick for life and wears the NYK rings.

Great! Then we agree. So how about we stop treating the Triangle like it was out of some book in Harry Potter?

80-166

For the first 2 years I defended Phil's move, because he wasnt handing out bad deals. Was trying to develop youth. Lost me when Noah/Rose were brought to NY. Awful move the team is still paying for with Noah. All this "Phil hater" stuff is silly. Watched him as a player at MSG, wanted him to represent. All he represented was a desire to do as little work as possible for that mega contract.

I might imagine this happening if Phil went to a bad small market team. Too old and rich to care.
Not the Knicks. Not where he really learned the game. Players couldnt even talk to him in the hallway.

Enough with the hero worship. Phil was a great coach and a lousy exec.

If he did little work, who was he relying on to make his deals, to speak with other execs, because we have all read that he hardly ever spoke to anyone that wasn't in his circle.

Spent a lot of time in LA. GMs apparently tried to call about deals, and couldnt reach him. Mandated a system, then spent practically no time with the players, even though he was the most qualified to teach it (not the asst. who was one of the worst coaches in NBA history)

He literally slept through a workout. Not saying Phil didnt put in any work, am saying it wasnt nearly enough. The results speak for themselves. If you are trying to pin it all on Mills, you are on the wrong track. "Triangle ready" players wasnt his idea. Trying to teach players who only lasted months a system which even Jordan/Kobe/Shaq admitted takes seasons to learn. And thats with a HOF coach, and HOF asst.

All of the 2nd and 3rd tier level players that were brought in under phil and mills are the same type of players we are bringing now under Mills and perry.

The only thing that has changed since phil is the TRIANGLE BS is gone. Mills treats Perry the way phil treated him, like an advisor/consultant.