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DSJr mechanics improvement
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HofstraBBall
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7/22/2019  12:53 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:https://nypost.com/2019/07/21/knicks-shot-doctor-is-trying-to-save-dennis-smith-jr/

between this and the Summer League interview...this is music to my ears. Acknowledging and working on the problem are 2 big steps. Now to see it in game.

Wonder why Carlisle and company didn't address this sooner?


Most NBA players can hit an alarming rate of shots in an empty gym and not at NBA "game speed"

When you are tired, hurt, mentally drained and frustrated, also with the immense pressures involved, then you are asked to do it at top level speed against world class athletes, this is a different story.

Changing something you've done TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES already is just very difficult to do.

A real competitor would have ID'ed and started to work on this stuff before you even get drafted. This is why Jimmy Butler is such a good player. Even before he was in the NBA, he outworked everyone.

Carlisle is one of the best coaches in the current NBA. But you can't make someone care enough to bleed everything they've got to relentlessly get better.

DSJr wants a new contract. His rookie deal and his primary developmental window are closing. Sure he's gonna start realizing he needs to work harder to get that money. How about working hard before you get to that point?

How is it the coaches fault that the player just doesn't care enough about his own game to develop it relentlessly?

Acknowledging the problem means jack ****. You put in the work and you execute. That's all that matters. Can you get it done? This is the same **** I've talked about before, giving credit to NBA players for SHIT THEY SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY TO JUST BE A BASELINE PROFESSIONAL.

He's such a good teammate!

You want a mother****ing cookie? It's your JOB to be a good teammate.

He's shown up in shape!

You want a gold star? It's your ****ing JOB to show up in elite condition.

So many fans set the bar so ****ing low it's sad.

If DSJr was actually doing his job to be the best player he could be from the time he was drafted, he wouldn't be in this situation now. ( Dumped to a losing team trying to salvage his career)

I'm not giving him credit for realizing he has a duty to do his ****ing job in the first place. If he wants a cookie, he can get one from you instead.

A bit too much bitterness in this post. Dont think he is looking for a cookie. Specially not from some forum posters. Is he looking to do so so he can raise his value in a walk year? Sure. So what? So does every single pro in any sport. Just makes sense.

Yes there is still much he has to prove in terms of fixing his shot. Of course he has to do so in a game and not practice. Of course all guys that are pros need to be in shape and work on their craft. But ****, the kid is in his third year and all of 21 years old and you have a problem with hearing he is working hard on his game?

Point being missed is that he is DOING SO and working hard. If we are going to trash people for what they COULD have done, then you better get to work on that endless list every player and person can obsess with.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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Chandler
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7/22/2019  2:04 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Chandler wrote:Triple raises a lot of good points

I recall Ainge saying that when he played for Celts guys would shoot like 80% in warmups and drills (he was including Bird et al.)

Game situation is a different beast. I am hoping that between our three pgs at least one of them improves enough so the defense won't sag off -- I'm not expecting them to morph into steph curry any time soon

Saying a real competitor would have identified the shooting issue and worked on it before the draft is a bit harsh in my opinion. DSJ is an elite athlete among the best athletes in the world. His athleticism allowed him to be very successful in a very high level of competition. His peers voted him most likely to win the roy after summer league his rookie year. He wasn't the 30th pick in the draft after four years of college like Jimmy Butler. Athletes should be putting in the work and trying to evolve into better players in the offseason. If Smith fixes his shot, raise his free throw percentage and three point percentage he could be elite. DRose shot 37% from three last year. These things do happen.

Yes, fair enough point. I agree with you, Nalod and Hofstra re tone.

It's also very easy to forget that a lot of the guys we're talking about (Knox,Frank, DSJ, Barret) are still teenagers.

If DSJ can develop a consistent jump shot it can really elevate his offense; I hope he is working on his D too.

(5)(5)
Nalod
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7/22/2019  2:14 PM
My opinion is this kid has missed a lot of time. He sat his senior year in HS and really did not find his game until the second half of his only year at NC State.
He got to rely on athletic advantage to his game, but he is hampered by a bad back his rookie year. Half thru year two he gets traded. This kid has not had a long stretch to find his groove. Not making excuses. If he is healthy he now gets to work on his shot. Should he have had better mechanics by now? Yeah. We need to blame someone? Is he under a lot of pressure? Yep. So is Frank. The dream is slipping for them.
Smith likely will be inconsistent for while as he burns the shot in. Only thing I ever did like this was rebuild my golf swing back when I played golf. It messed me up and took a long time for it to be natural. Have to have faith in it. I suspect players are not all to enthused to rebuild their shot as it can mess them up worse. Maybe some experienced players can chime in.
I have not played golf in over decade. I started playing in my late 20's and was never really good. When I played 2x a week and burned in that new swing (took 2 years)!!!! it was fun and My scores really dropped. got bored with it and took up tennis. Had to get in cardio!!! Golf is a game, not a sport. LOL!!!!
SupremeCommander
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7/22/2019  3:04 PM
Nalod wrote:My opinion is this kid has missed a lot of time. He sat his senior year in HS and really did not find his game until the second half of his only year at NC State.
He got to rely on athletic advantage to his game, but he is hampered by a bad back his rookie year. Half thru year two he gets traded. This kid has not had a long stretch to find his groove. Not making excuses. If he is healthy he now gets to work on his shot. Should he have had better mechanics by now? Yeah. We need to blame someone? Is he under a lot of pressure? Yep. So is Frank. The dream is slipping for them.
Smith likely will be inconsistent for while as he burns the shot in. Only thing I ever did like this was rebuild my golf swing back when I played golf. It messed me up and took a long time for it to be natural. Have to have faith in it. I suspect players are not all to enthused to rebuild their shot as it can mess them up worse. Maybe some experienced players can chime in.
I have not played golf in over decade. I started playing in my late 20's and was never really good. When I played 2x a week and burned in that new swing (took 2 years)!!!! it was fun and My scores really dropped. got bored with it and took up tennis. Had to get in cardio!!! Golf is a game, not a sport. LOL!!!!

if he can get a decent shot--not a great shot but a decent shot--it is going to open up some daylight for him. I think the Knicks development people (for once) really hammered the nail down on this one. If he develops that he won't have to be Westbrook to get his. I'm really a fan of points that have different gears they can hit. If he can keep them honest for the first three quarters and then abuse the absolute **** out of them in the 4th I will be ecstatic

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CleaverGreene
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7/22/2019  5:28 PM
Easy to work on shooting...harder to show off the work you have done in competition and under pressure.

You have years of muscle memory created, and under pressure, in the heat of the moment, you don't have time to think about the new techniques you've learned to shoot better, and you sometimes revert back to older techniques ingrained in your brain.

I heard Barrett had done a lot of work on his jumper, but he still has many flaws as a shooter from what I saw.

Only time will tell with Smith. I've always found that the superior athletes, those who can get by on athleticism alone, sometimes forget to work on shooting fundamentals.

Hopefully Smith can use what he's learned and not get frustrated or fall back into bad habits...it would be a game changer for him as a player.

There are three classes of men; lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. (Plato)
CrushAlot
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7/24/2019  10:42 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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7/25/2019  12:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/25/2019  12:08 AM
CrushAlot wrote:

Would like to have seen a few more makes, but his stroke looks good. Between Smith working on his, conditioning, shooting mechanics, work with Fizdale, and apparently 100 percent recovered from his back issues. Im encouraged. Should be a good competition for minutes with Payton in camp.

CrushAlot
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7/25/2019  9:03 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Would like to have seen a few more makes, but his stroke looks good. Between Smith working on his, conditioning, shooting mechanics, work with Fizdale, and apparently 100 percent recovered from his back issues. Im encouraged. Should be a good competition for minutes with Payton in camp.

I do t have Instagram but there is a longer video on Knicks reddit from this workout. If I can find it I will post the link.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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7/25/2019  9:16 AM
Here’s the link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/chfo6y/closer_look_on_dsjs_new_and_improved_jumper/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
HofstraBBall
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7/25/2019  9:20 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:

Would like to have seen a few more makes, but his stroke looks good. Between Smith working on his, conditioning, shooting mechanics, work with Fizdale, and apparently 100 percent recovered from his back issues. Im encouraged. Should be a good competition for minutes with Payton in camp.

I do t have Instagram but there is a longer video on Knicks reddit from this workout. If I can find it I will post the link.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
blkexec
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7/25/2019  9:52 AM
Shout out to lifetime....that's my second home.

I never understood this hitch people are talking about. Reminds me of someone who told me to trust my follow through. He said I kept aiming my shots, and wasnt consistent. Went to the gym and shot 100 jumpers a day or every other day and next season I was a reliable 3pt shooter.

Repetition....that's all it takes. Once his confidence increases, along with his IQ, its over. Always been a fan and wished the knicks drafted him. Glad hes on our team now with a chance to shine.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
martin
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7/25/2019  9:57 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Here’s the link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYKnicks/comments/chfo6y/closer_look_on_dsjs_new_and_improved_jumper/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

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martin
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7/25/2019  10:00 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:

OMG I think there is a Melo appearance! Dude is king of summer video clips

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Cartman718
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7/27/2019  2:44 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:https://nypost.com/2019/07/21/knicks-shot-doctor-is-trying-to-save-dennis-smith-jr/

between this and the Summer League interview...this is music to my ears. Acknowledging and working on the problem are 2 big steps. Now to see it in game.

Wonder why Carlisle and company didn't address this sooner?


Most NBA players can hit an alarming rate of shots in an empty gym and not at NBA "game speed"

When you are tired, hurt, mentally drained and frustrated, also with the immense pressures involved, then you are asked to do it at top level speed against world class athletes, this is a different story.

Changing something you've done TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES already is just very difficult to do.

A real competitor would have ID'ed and started to work on this stuff before you even get drafted. This is why Jimmy Butler is such a good player. Even before he was in the NBA, he outworked everyone.

Carlisle is one of the best coaches in the current NBA. But you can't make someone care enough to bleed everything they've got to relentlessly get better.

DSJr wants a new contract. His rookie deal and his primary developmental window are closing. Sure he's gonna start realizing he needs to work harder to get that money. How about working hard before you get to that point?

How is it the coaches fault that the player just doesn't care enough about his own game to develop it relentlessly?

Acknowledging the problem means jack ****. You put in the work and you execute. That's all that matters. Can you get it done? This is the same **** I've talked about before, giving credit to NBA players for SHIT THEY SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY TO JUST BE A BASELINE PROFESSIONAL.

He's such a good teammate!

You want a mother****ing cookie? It's your JOB to be a good teammate.

He's shown up in shape!

You want a gold star? It's your ****ing JOB to show up in elite condition.

So many fans set the bar so ****ing low it's sad.

If DSJr was actually doing his job to be the best player he could be from the time he was drafted, he wouldn't be in this situation now. ( Dumped to a losing team trying to salvage his career)

I'm not giving him credit for realizing he has a duty to do his ****ing job in the first place. If he wants a cookie, he can get one from you instead.

A bit too much bitterness in this post. Dont think he is looking for a cookie. Specially not from some forum posters. Is he looking to do so so he can raise his value in a walk year? Sure. So what? So does every single pro in any sport. Just makes sense.

Yes there is still much he has to prove in terms of fixing his shot. Of course he has to do so in a game and not practice. Of course all guys that are pros need to be in shape and work on their craft. But ****, the kid is in his third year and all of 21 years old and you have a problem with hearing he is working hard on his game?

Point being missed is that he is DOING SO and working hard. If we are going to trash people for what they COULD have done, then you better get to work on that endless list every player and person can obsess with.

exactly. i am beginning to think dude has an agenda against me lol

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TripleThreat
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7/27/2019  4:31 AM
HofstraBBall wrote: But ****, the kid is in his third year and all of 21 years old and you have a problem with hearing he is working hard on his game?


A) Careers in professional sports are very very very very short. You have a limited window to prove yourself and establish your value to your franchise and to your league in general.

B) The trends towards the value of long range shooting has been in all levels of true competitive basketball for a decade now. This is not some grand secret. The "Space And Pace" game is here to stay and any player coming up not working on his long range shooting now is three steps behind the curve.

C) Age does not work in professional sports like other careers. Just being 21 is a good excuse if you are trying to be an accountant or something else. During the middle of your third year in the NBA, barring massive injury, you will likely show 90 percent of what you will be in the league for the rest of your career. THE BASIS OF THE LENGTH OF NBA FIRST ROUND PICKS IS BUILT SPECIFICALLY AROUND THIS GENERALLY ACCEPTED REALITY IN PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL. This is a balance between the owners and the NBAPA ( enough time for owners and franchises to determine a players long term worth, short enough so said players can cash in on free agency given typically short careers)

D) Long range shooting tends to improve INCREMENTALLY. Meaning it just doesn't make a massive leap for most players. It's a little by little thing each season. So yes, you need to work on that **** long before if you want it to be efficient by your third year in the league.

E) In professional sports, the way it actually works, talk is ****ing cheap. No one gives a **** what you say. What matters is what you produce when it counts. "I'm working on my shot!" Means jack ****. Do you have a functional league average three point shot? Then shut the **** up about it. That might sound harsh to many of you, but this is how it works. It's totally ruthless. Produce or get kicked the **** out. That means when you have this OPPORTUNITY, you should be working relentlessly all the time no matter what. Even before you are drafted and know you are likely to be drafted into the NBA.

blkexec
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7/27/2019  8:55 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:https://nypost.com/2019/07/21/knicks-shot-doctor-is-trying-to-save-dennis-smith-jr/

between this and the Summer League interview...this is music to my ears. Acknowledging and working on the problem are 2 big steps. Now to see it in game.

Wonder why Carlisle and company didn't address this sooner?


Most NBA players can hit an alarming rate of shots in an empty gym and not at NBA "game speed"

When you are tired, hurt, mentally drained and frustrated, also with the immense pressures involved, then you are asked to do it at top level speed against world class athletes, this is a different story.

Changing something you've done TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TIMES already is just very difficult to do.

A real competitor would have ID'ed and started to work on this stuff before you even get drafted. This is why Jimmy Butler is such a good player. Even before he was in the NBA, he outworked everyone.

Carlisle is one of the best coaches in the current NBA. But you can't make someone care enough to bleed everything they've got to relentlessly get better.

DSJr wants a new contract. His rookie deal and his primary developmental window are closing. Sure he's gonna start realizing he needs to work harder to get that money. How about working hard before you get to that point?

How is it the coaches fault that the player just doesn't care enough about his own game to develop it relentlessly?

Acknowledging the problem means jack ****. You put in the work and you execute. That's all that matters. Can you get it done? This is the same **** I've talked about before, giving credit to NBA players for SHIT THEY SHOULD BE DOING ANYWAY TO JUST BE A BASELINE PROFESSIONAL.

He's such a good teammate!

You want a mother****ing cookie? It's your JOB to be a good teammate.

He's shown up in shape!

You want a gold star? It's your ****ing JOB to show up in elite condition.

So many fans set the bar so ****ing low it's sad.

If DSJr was actually doing his job to be the best player he could be from the time he was drafted, he wouldn't be in this situation now. ( Dumped to a losing team trying to salvage his career)

I'm not giving him credit for realizing he has a duty to do his ****ing job in the first place. If he wants a cookie, he can get one from you instead.

A bit too much bitterness in this post. Dont think he is looking for a cookie. Specially not from some forum posters. Is he looking to do so so he can raise his value in a walk year? Sure. So what? So does every single pro in any sport. Just makes sense.

Yes there is still much he has to prove in terms of fixing his shot. Of course he has to do so in a game and not practice. Of course all guys that are pros need to be in shape and work on their craft. But ****, the kid is in his third year and all of 21 years old and you have a problem with hearing he is working hard on his game?

Point being missed is that he is DOING SO and working hard. If we are going to trash people for what they COULD have done, then you better get to work on that endless list every player and person can obsess with.

exactly. i am beginning to think dude has an agenda against me lol

Dont take it personal....I used to think the same thing....so I put him on mute. After time went by I realized this is internal pain and nothing against me.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
blkexec
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7/27/2019  9:02 AM
Wheres this hitch? All I see is a baller who needs to increase confidence in his jumper. A baller who relied of his athleticism too much. I just see someone who needs time to mature his game.
Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Uptown
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7/27/2019  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/27/2019  10:15 AM
blkexec wrote:Wheres this hitch? All I see is a baller who needs to increase confidence in his jumper. A baller who relied of his athleticism too much. I just see someone who needs time to mature his game.

Agreed...I think some were expecting too much too soon from Smith. The potential is there. I'm looking forward to him taking another step forward in his development.

martin
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7/27/2019  10:14 AM
blkexec wrote:Wheres this hitch? All I see is a baller who needs to increase confidence in his jumper. A baller who relied of his athleticism too much. I just see someone who needs time to mature his game.

Surprised you didn’t notice it during his time with the Knicks. It’s more pronounced during FTs.

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HofstraBBall
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7/27/2019  10:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/27/2019  4:29 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote: But ****, the kid is in his third year and all of 21 years old and you have a problem with hearing he is working hard on his game?


A) Careers in professional sports are very very very very short. You have a limited window to prove yourself and establish your value to your franchise and to your league in general.

B) The trends towards the value of long range shooting has been in all levels of true competitive basketball for a decade now. This is not some grand secret. The "Space And Pace" game is here to stay and any player coming up not working on his long range shooting now is three steps behind the curve.

C) Age does not work in professional sports like other careers. Just being 21 is a good excuse if you are trying to be an accountant or something else. During the middle of your third year in the NBA, barring massive injury, you will likely show 90 percent of what you will be in the league for the rest of your career. THE BASIS OF THE LENGTH OF NBA FIRST ROUND PICKS IS BUILT SPECIFICALLY AROUND THIS GENERALLY ACCEPTED REALITY IN PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL. This is a balance between the owners and the NBAPA ( enough time for owners and franchises to determine a players long term worth, short enough so said players can cash in on free agency given typically short careers)

D) Long range shooting tends to improve INCREMENTALLY. Meaning it just doesn't make a massive leap for most players. It's a little by little thing each season. So yes, you need to work on that **** long before if you want it to be efficient by your third year in the league.

E) In professional sports, the way it actually works, talk is ****ing cheap. No one gives a **** what you say. What matters is what you produce when it counts. "I'm working on my shot!" Means jack ****. Do you have a functional league average three point shot? Then shut the **** up about it. That might sound harsh to many of you, but this is how it works. It's totally ruthless. Produce or get kicked the **** out. That means when you have this OPPORTUNITY, you should be working relentlessly all the time no matter what. Even before you are drafted and know you are likely to be drafted into the NBA.

A) What does this have to do with Smith, a kid working on his shot? Are you saying Smith has shown NOTHING else that has value? So you think 2 years and 21 years old is the window? If that was the case Portis, Randle, Morris and about 75% of the current NBA players would be out of the league.

B)Agree, EVERYONE knows the game is centered around the three. Are you saying you should come into the league being able to shoot 40%? So a kid that shot 34% his first year never worked on his shot? So whats the league average for PG's? How bout for 21 year olds in their second year?

C) Bad analogy. 21 is not a good excuse for not knowing how to do someones taxes. That just means that one did not study like one should or that the college you went to did not prepare you properly. To excel in the NBA you need more than just talent and practice. Or did YOU NOT say that in your earlier post? (You said no matter HOW MANY shots you take and make in practice it does not mean it will transfer to an NBA game) Which I agree with but I guess you only feel that way when it helps your point. Fact is it takes most player 3 to 5 years to become rounded players and solid contributors. Btw.. Something Smith has already done in his first 2 years.

D)Are you saying that Smith needs to go from 32% to 50%? Again, post the PG's shooting that? And you feel Smith should have been practicing an NBA distance three point shot in middle school and high school? That's some phenom planning ****. Kinda like middle school kids focusing on College level physics. If you knew as much about basketball as you claim, you would know that the above average athlete, like Smith, has always had a challenge when moving up to the NBA. As they were able to dominate at lower levels just solely on athleticism. Yet your complaining that the kid is noticing that and trying to correct it?

E)This rant means nothing. All it does is prove my "Bitter" remark. Sounds like some grumpy old man **** and not anything to do with insight on a thread of a kid working on his game. Fact is that Smith is shooting at a "Functional league average" for his position. Work ethic is recognized by most and does pay off. Knocking a 21 year old for working on his shortcomings is weak and short sighted. Specially when ignoring the kid is an athletic freak and has already put up very good numbers in scoring and assists at 21.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
DSJr mechanics improvement

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