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Upon Further Review, The Knicks Free Agent Haul Doesn’t Suck That Bad
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misterearl
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7/12/2019  11:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2019  11:50 AM
Four potential starters, each with a solid pro resume:
Julius Randle, 21.4 points, 8.7 rebounds, 3.1 assists per game
Marcus Morris, 14 points pg, 44.7 fg pct, 37.5 from 3, 6.1 rebounds
Bobby Portis, 14.2 pts, 8.1 rebounds, 39 pct on 3-pointers
Elfrid Payton, averaged 10.1 points and 7.6 assists

Two rotation players who can be trusted:
Taj Gibson, 10.8 points and 6.4 rebounds per game
Wayne Ellington, 10.3 pg on 40.3 percent, 37.1 pct from long distance.

One thing they have in common is that they all go to the glass strong. They ALL rebound. Ellington is 6’5. Payton 6’4. No shrimps allowed.

Show me seven players scoring in double figures every night,
and I’ll show you a playoff contender.

Added Height:
Gibson: 6’9
Morris 6’9
Randle 6’9
Portis 6’11

Can they take advantage of their experience and positively influence the preparation culture?

“We talkin’ bout practice...”
Each and every one of our teenagers now has a role model to work, and measure themselves, against:

Ntilikina - Payton
Barrett - Ellington
Knox - Morris
Brazdeikis - Gibson
Robinson - Portis

Is mentorship is a good thing?
As a matter of fact, it is.

once a knick always a knick
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StarksEwing1
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7/12/2019  11:35 AM
Despite what the critics said we have improved and will be a better team. The important thing is we didn't do any panic moves. We have young pieces, all our picks, and future flexibility. The guys we picked up will help this year and even if some don't work out they are only 1 year deals basically. I really like that we are sticking to the plan and we have learned from past mistakes
fishmike
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7/12/2019  11:42 AM
they built a team. Its not that pretty (yet) but its a start. We have a balanced squad, a deep pipeline of youth, quality vets with minimal commitment.

What it lacks is high end talent (all unproven).

Mentorship IS good and perhaps even better is the ability to evaluate both the young players next to veterans who can play and also Fizdale's ability to coach.

In some ways they are following the Nets path, however the Knicks are already much more flexible and own additional draft picks rather than being in debt to other teams.

Nets hired Atkinson.
Year 1 20 wins
Year 2 28 wins
Year 3 42 wins

Knicks have added the kind of depth of vets who are young and hungry (hopefully) Fizdale can rally similar to how Atkinson did with the Nets this year. Whether the Knicks make the playoffs or not its a developmental year. Doesnt mean that cant include a push in a very weak conference.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
KnickDanger
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7/12/2019  1:04 PM
Of the FAs we signed only Randle, maybe Payton seem longer term options to my mind. The others are solid pros who are all on short contracts. The team will be more competitive this year possibly in the playoff hunt but barring a miracle I have no illusions about what the current roster will be. What I am especially pleased about is the FO seems to have a solid vision and plan and is not caving in to the extended nonsense from imbecilic media gasbags and ADD mom's basement fans. We have a few genuine prospects (RJ, Mitch, Knox), some possibles (DSJ, Frank, Dotson), all our draft picks plus a couple from the Mavs, cap flexibility after this season, and players who could be flipped for picks or whatever. Despite the rush to crowd onto the Nets bandwagon (let's see how that plays out) and the trendy Knicks hate, I'm good with where we're at.
SupremeCommander
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7/12/2019  1:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2019  1:22 PM
Bobby Portis is not a starter. Everyone ripped on Kanter here, people are gonna have the same issues with Portis.

We got lucky that Morris bailed on the Spurs. We legit signed our one-two punch in the offseason. Before everyone goes 'wow, everything is beautiful and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows everywhere' please let it sink in that Julius Randle and Marcus Morris are our two best players. Hopefully we make the playoffs. That would be nice. But that's a team that is lucky to win one game in May and I think it's a ~30 win team.

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
Marv
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7/12/2019  2:39 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:Bobby Portis is not a starter. Everyone ripped on Kanter here, people are gonna have the same issues with Portis.

We got lucky that Morris bailed on the Spurs. We legit signed our one-two punch in the offseason. Before everyone goes 'wow, everything is beautiful and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows everywhere' please let it sink in that Julius Randle and Marcus Morris are our two best players. Hopefully we make the playoffs. That would be nice. But that's a team that is lucky to win one game in May and I think it's a ~30 win team.

hopefully someone cracks that 1-2 list by season’s end, e.g., mitch, dsj, rj, knox or trier.

SupremeCommander
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7/12/2019  3:01 PM
Marv wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Bobby Portis is not a starter. Everyone ripped on Kanter here, people are gonna have the same issues with Portis.

We got lucky that Morris bailed on the Spurs. We legit signed our one-two punch in the offseason. Before everyone goes 'wow, everything is beautiful and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows everywhere' please let it sink in that Julius Randle and Marcus Morris are our two best players. Hopefully we make the playoffs. That would be nice. But that's a team that is lucky to win one game in May and I think it's a ~30 win team.

hopefully someone cracks that 1-2 list by season’s end, e.g., mitch, dsj, rj, knox or trier.

at some point I'm willing to bet at least two exceed Randle/Morris... but I think by season's end is a ambitious

Sambakick wrote: Gives a whole new meaning to "Jazz Hands"
misterearl
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7/12/2019  3:09 PM
Remember how the Oakland Raiders invested in veterans back in the day? They bonded over the idea of winning despite the “experts” describing them as too old, too different and too far away from the norm.

The Raiders put all the noise aside and simply played football.

If there has ever been a place more famous for noise than New York, it has not been invented. The media sharks pounce in every flaw like a helpless tuna. Do sharks eat tuna? Hell if I know, but you get the idea.

The NYK veteran leadership, still to be determined, will set the tone in October. Throw all the stats and history out the window. What matters is everyone sharing the ball (even Trier) and everyone calling out picks.

Team building starts.

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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7/12/2019  3:09 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:Bobby Portis is not a starter. Everyone ripped on Kanter here, people are gonna have the same issues with Portis.

We got lucky that Morris bailed on the Spurs. We legit signed our one-two punch in the offseason. Before everyone goes 'wow, everything is beautiful and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows everywhere' please let it sink in that Julius Randle and Marcus Morris are our two best players. Hopefully we make the playoffs. That would be nice. But that's a team that is lucky to win one game in May and I think it's a ~30 win team.

luck is an incredibly important part of the process. Very few teams transition from terrible to top shelf without a good dose of it. And by NBA luck I simply mean something happening that people didnt really see coming. Things like a role player like Ben Wallace, really a throw in to the Grant Hill trade becoming the best defensive player of his generation. Or a MLE signing of a guy like Billups who becomes your leader and clutch finisher. Or that a draft day trade for George Hill and that 15th pick included becomes the possibly the best 2 way player.. ever.

So to your point on Morris and being lucky I will take it. I dont expect him to him Billups or Kawhi, but maybe he's the guy who sets the tone for guys like RJ, Knox, Frank and Iggy and THOSE are the guys who change our luck. He's certainly the kind of player we need and the kind of player we need our youth to be like, tough, versatile and physical.

Knicks have not taken risks trading picks for an available star player. They have not taken big risks on long deals to anyone. Their biggest commitment was to Randle. This guy could be a breakout scorer in the league, or he could just be good. They didnt take risks in the first round taking the best player on the board and looks like they got another good 2nd rounder in Iggy.

The talent level on this roster is nothing to be farting rainbows over. I dont think anyone is. I think what some people recognize is the FO has stuck to their promise of being methodical and not cutting corners... so far. I think some people see that we added some good players on very flexible deals.

Most see big tests coming up. Big test for Fizdale. Big test for Mitch, Smith, Knox, Trier, Frank or anyone else you are hoping will take the next step. Knicks have had a very sane offseason and that has some folks excited for these next steps.

Before everyone goes 'wow, everything is beautiful and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows everywhere' please let it sink in that Julius Randle and Marcus Morris are our two best players

What is it about being positive that offends you so? I mean what is the most mild prediction around here? That the Knicks make the playoffs based on decent veteran play, roster stays healthy and some guys take nice steps forward like Smith, Mitch, Trier, Knox etc... and 40ish wins prolly does it.

If I had to wager I would say 34 wins.... mostly I am looking for good signs (youth breaking out and Fizdale can coach).

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HofstraBBall
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7/12/2019  3:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/12/2019  4:04 PM
KnickDanger wrote:Of the FAs we signed only Randle, maybe Payton seem longer term options to my mind. The others are solid pros who are all on short contracts. The team will be more competitive this year possibly in the playoff hunt but barring a miracle I have no illusions about what the current roster will be. What I am especially pleased about is the FO seems to have a solid vision and plan and is not caving in to the extended nonsense from imbecilic media gasbags and ADD mom's basement fans. We have a few genuine prospects (RJ, Mitch, Knox), some possibles (DSJ, Frank, Dotson), all our draft picks plus a couple from the Mavs, cap flexibility after this season, and players who could be flipped for picks or whatever. Despite the rush to crowd onto the Nets bandwagon (let's see how that plays out) and the trendy Knicks hate, I'm good with where we're at.

Nonsense from media? Maybe. However calling Fans that have been around for a LONG time and are tired of being told, hey lets wait two years for Kobe, lets wait a couple of years for Lebron, Lets wait a few years for KD, now lets wait a couple of years for Giannis imbeciles is a bit unfair. Think it is warranted feeling as we have seen this football pull away many times before. Fact is we had the Durant/Irving signing teed up. Yes I know, KI is a bum and Durant will never play again. But Fact is that the Nets are now looking at competing for a chip in two years and we are looking to rebuild, yet again, in two years. But okay, I get it, KD got hurt and Knicks needed to change strategies, Got it, no worries. Eyes for 2021. Here is the way I see the Plan B moves:

1- Commit to a possible next level player. Not bad, you have to sometimes take a chance. Randle is young and has shown annual improvement.
2- Taj Gibson. Did not see the need for such an early commitment for a vet that could be had later in the week and one, that it can be argued, does not bring much more than LT at $1M. Makes even less sense with Randle, Knox, Morris taking up a lot of the4 minutes.
3- Early commitment on Portis at $15M per? Seemed a bit of a rush and a bit much for a player that has yet to put it together at a consistent stint. Why not leave the cap space open for salary dumps and added picks? Seemed like the same type of move from last year (Vonleh, Hezonja) without the low price.
4- Bullock, a bit high in salary but good outside shooter and decent player.
5- Ellington- OK, Worth $8M?
6- Payton- Good signing, IMO, like his vision and attack of the basket. He will compete for a the starting PG or if Smith plays well, will be a solid back up. Question is how will he benefit a team that needs outside shooting.
7- Morris, like the signing, good player and will hold Knox accountable and may teach him to be a better all around player.

Think overall, we started the Free agency on a disappointing note. At least for me. May have made some commitments a bit too early and over paid due to the pressure of missing signing the big names. But think we signed a good young player, and finished by signing two solid NBA players to help be competitive and teach the young players. Of the contracts that I feel were over paid and signed prematurely, most are short term commitments and have flexibility. Think overall the FA gets a B+. Just hope at some point the whole "we will be good in three years" (groundhog day scenario) will come to an end.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
KnickDanger
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7/12/2019  4:08 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Of the FAs we signed only Randle, maybe Payton seem longer term options to my mind. The others are solid pros who are all on short contracts. The team will be more competitive this year possibly in the playoff hunt but barring a miracle I have no illusions about what the current roster will be. What I am especially pleased about is the FO seems to have a solid vision and plan and is not caving in to the extended nonsense from imbecilic media gasbags and ADD mom's basement fans. We have a few genuine prospects (RJ, Mitch, Knox), some possibles (DSJ, Frank, Dotson), all our draft picks plus a couple from the Mavs, cap flexibility after this season, and players who could be flipped for picks or whatever. Despite the rush to crowd onto the Nets bandwagon (let's see how that plays out) and the trendy Knicks hate, I'm good with where we're at.

Nonsense from media? Maybe. However calling Fans that have been around for a LONG time and are tired of being told, hey lets wait two years for Kobe, lets wait a couple of years for Lebron, Lets wait a few years for KD, now lets wait a couple of years for Giannis imbeciles is a bit unfair. Think it is warranted feeling as we have seen this football pull away many times before. Fact is we had the Durant/Irving signing teed up. Yes I know, KI is a bum and Durant will never play again. But Fact is that the Nets are now looking at competing for a chip in two years and we are looking to rebuild, yet again, in two years. But okay, I get it, KD got hurt and Knicks needed to change strategies, Got it, no worries. Eyes for 2021. Here is the way I see the Plan B moves:

1- Commit to a possible next level player. Not bad, you have to sometimes take a chance. Randle is young and has shown annual improvement.
2- Taj Gibson. Did not see the need for such an early commitment for a vet that could be had later in the week and one, that it can be argued, does not bring much more than LT at $1M
3- Early commitment on Portis at $15M per? Seemed a bit of a rush and a bit much for a player that has yet to put it together at a consistent stint. Why not leave the cap space open for salary dumps and added picks? Seemed like the same type of move from last year (Vonleh, Hezonja) without the low price.
4- Bullock, a bit high in salary but good outside shooter and decent player.
5- Ellington- OK, Worth $8M?
6- Payton- Good signing, IMO, like his vision and attack of the basket. He will compete for a the starting PG or if Smith plays well, will be a solid back up. Question is how will he benefit a team that needs outside shooting.
7- Morris, like the signing, good player and will hold Knox accountable and may teach him to be a better all around player.

Think overall, we started the Free agency on a disappointing note. At least for me. May have made some commitments a bit too early and over paid due to the pressure of missing signing the big names. But think we signed a good young player, and finished by signing two solid NBA players to help be competitive and teach the young players. Of the contracts that I feel were over paid and signed prematurely, most are short term commitments and have flexibility. Think overall the FA gets a B+. Just hope at some point the whole "we will be good in three years" (groundhog day scenario) will come to an end.

Well even if people don't care for the moves the FO is making, I would think they could at least admit they are doing things differently. We have draft picks, flexibility, and hopefully some genuine prospects. If you are a long term Knicks fan, you know that hasn't been the case in quite a while. Anyway, people can argue all they want -- let's see how it plays out.

StarksEwing1
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7/12/2019  4:16 PM
KnickDanger wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Of the FAs we signed only Randle, maybe Payton seem longer term options to my mind. The others are solid pros who are all on short contracts. The team will be more competitive this year possibly in the playoff hunt but barring a miracle I have no illusions about what the current roster will be. What I am especially pleased about is the FO seems to have a solid vision and plan and is not caving in to the extended nonsense from imbecilic media gasbags and ADD mom's basement fans. We have a few genuine prospects (RJ, Mitch, Knox), some possibles (DSJ, Frank, Dotson), all our draft picks plus a couple from the Mavs, cap flexibility after this season, and players who could be flipped for picks or whatever. Despite the rush to crowd onto the Nets bandwagon (let's see how that plays out) and the trendy Knicks hate, I'm good with where we're at.

Nonsense from media? Maybe. However calling Fans that have been around for a LONG time and are tired of being told, hey lets wait two years for Kobe, lets wait a couple of years for Lebron, Lets wait a few years for KD, now lets wait a couple of years for Giannis imbeciles is a bit unfair. Think it is warranted feeling as we have seen this football pull away many times before. Fact is we had the Durant/Irving signing teed up. Yes I know, KI is a bum and Durant will never play again. But Fact is that the Nets are now looking at competing for a chip in two years and we are looking to rebuild, yet again, in two years. But okay, I get it, KD got hurt and Knicks needed to change strategies, Got it, no worries. Eyes for 2021. Here is the way I see the Plan B moves:

1- Commit to a possible next level player. Not bad, you have to sometimes take a chance. Randle is young and has shown annual improvement.
2- Taj Gibson. Did not see the need for such an early commitment for a vet that could be had later in the week and one, that it can be argued, does not bring much more than LT at $1M
3- Early commitment on Portis at $15M per? Seemed a bit of a rush and a bit much for a player that has yet to put it together at a consistent stint. Why not leave the cap space open for salary dumps and added picks? Seemed like the same type of move from last year (Vonleh, Hezonja) without the low price.
4- Bullock, a bit high in salary but good outside shooter and decent player.
5- Ellington- OK, Worth $8M?
6- Payton- Good signing, IMO, like his vision and attack of the basket. He will compete for a the starting PG or if Smith plays well, will be a solid back up. Question is how will he benefit a team that needs outside shooting.
7- Morris, like the signing, good player and will hold Knox accountable and may teach him to be a better all around player.

Think overall, we started the Free agency on a disappointing note. At least for me. May have made some commitments a bit too early and over paid due to the pressure of missing signing the big names. But think we signed a good young player, and finished by signing two solid NBA players to help be competitive and teach the young players. Of the contracts that I feel were over paid and signed prematurely, most are short term commitments and have flexibility. Think overall the FA gets a B+. Just hope at some point the whole "we will be good in three years" (groundhog day scenario) will come to an end.

Well even if people don't care for the moves the FO is making, I would think they could at least admit they are doing things differently. We have draft picks, flexibility, and hopefully some genuine prospects. If you are a long term Knicks fan, you know that hasn't been the case in quite a while. Anyway, people can argue all they want -- let's see how it plays out.

Exactly. For years we chased big names throwing away numerous draft picks in the process. The results ended up being far worse. At least now we have some good young pieces as well as a lot of solid role players and veterans. Most importantly we have future flexibility and extra picks. The media can spin it as a "failure" I could care less since mostly it isn't objective news anyhow. Im just happy we are sticking to a plan instead of making panic moves like we used to do.
smackeddog
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7/13/2019  11:29 AM
Thinking about it, Perry did a similar thing with the Kings- in 2017 he signed:

George Hill: Three years, $57MM. Third year partially guaranteed ($1MM).
Zach Randolph: Two years, $24MM.
Vince Carter: One year, $8MM.

So again he overpaid vets, but on short deals with the aim of providing veteran leadership for the young players.

misterearl
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7/13/2019  11:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2019  11:43 AM
Nice Catch

smackeddog wrote:Thinking about it, Perry did a similar thing with the Kings- in 2017 he signed:

George Hill: Three years, $57MM. Third year partially guaranteed ($1MM).
Zach Randolph: Two years, $24MM.
Vince Carter: One year, $8MM.

So again he overpaid vets, but on short deals with the aim of providing veteran leadership for the young players.

The operative word is leadership.
Each of our Yutes has a role model.
“You could look it up.”

once a knick always a knick
Jmpasq
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7/13/2019  2:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2019  2:41 PM
Portis is a horrendus defensive player. What every he brings on the offensive end goes right back out on defense and some. Im shocked we got Morris I thought he would end up on a good team. We have way to many frontcourt players. The team now has legitmate rotation players now so thats good but out starting lineup is putrid. I don't know how accurate scout.com projections are but they have us 25 wins with 0 percent chance of making the playoffs. Hopefully fate smiles on us in the lottery because what else do we have. Maybe Lillard and Towns force their way to NY
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BigDaddyG
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7/13/2019  2:56 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Of the FAs we signed only Randle, maybe Payton seem longer term options to my mind. The others are solid pros who are all on short contracts. The team will be more competitive this year possibly in the playoff hunt but barring a miracle I have no illusions about what the current roster will be. What I am especially pleased about is the FO seems to have a solid vision and plan and is not caving in to the extended nonsense from imbecilic media gasbags and ADD mom's basement fans. We have a few genuine prospects (RJ, Mitch, Knox), some possibles (DSJ, Frank, Dotson), all our draft picks plus a couple from the Mavs, cap flexibility after this season, and players who could be flipped for picks or whatever. Despite the rush to crowd onto the Nets bandwagon (let's see how that plays out) and the trendy Knicks hate, I'm good with where we're at.

.
2- Taj Gibson. Did not see the need for such an early commitment for a vet that could be had later in the week and one, that it can be argued, does not bring much more than LT at $1M. Makes even less sense with Randle, Knox, Morris taking up a lot of the4 minutes.

Minnesota fans seem to think Gibson can still consistently contribute in limited minutes. That ismore than I could ever say about Lance last season. Still, I agree that it was probably an overpay. It's not cap crippling, so I can live with it for a season.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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7/13/2019  3:39 PM
Most of these additions are role players. With the exception of Randle, want to see the rest on the bench. Otherwise this is the Knicks circa 2002. Might as well bring back Eisley and Anderson. Start the young guys.
BigDaddyG
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7/13/2019  7:16 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Most of these additions are role players. With the exception of Randle, want to see the rest on the bench. Otherwise this is the Knicks circa 2002. Might as well bring back Eisley and Anderson. Start the young guys.

Yeah...but at least with have young guys now. It was painful watching us roll out a squad of mediocreundersized PFs every night.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
misterearl
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7/13/2019  7:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2019  7:30 PM
Sheesh.

Jmpasq wrote:Portis is a horrendus defensive player. What every he brings on the offensive end goes right back out on defense and some.

Horrendous you say? Based on what exactly?

Im shocked we got Morris I thought he would end up on a good team. We have way to many frontcourt players.

You can never have to(o) many frontcourt players in an 82 game schedule,

The team now has legitmate rotation players now so thats good but out starting lineup is putrid.

The starting lineup in your head, or the starting Lineup that will start in November?

Or the starting lineup in January.

I don't know how accurate scout.com projections are but they have us 25 wins with 0 percent chance of making the playoffs.


Who died and made scout.com boss?

Hopefully fate smiles on us in the lottery because what else do we have.

We have a triple double machine at lead guard.


Maybe Lillard and Towns force their way to NY

Maybe the games should be played first

once a knick always a knick
Jmpasq
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7/13/2019  9:41 PM
misterearl wrote:
Portis is a horrendus defensive player. What every he brings on the offensive end goes right back out on defense and some.

Horrendous you say? Based on what exactly?

Maybe the games should be played first

What standard do you want to use? Rim protection? He brings none. Pick and roll defense? Terrible. Perimeter defense? Nope he sux at that too.

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Upon Further Review, The Knicks Free Agent Haul Doesn’t Suck That Bad

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