CTKnicksfan wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CTKnicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

I have a hard time believing that THJ with 2 years left on his deal could have been moved for an expiring with no other assets attached. Agree with the rest of this though, There was no reason that they couldn't have tried to repair the damage with KP - even after the trade request. That should have been a wake up call. Instead they hit the panic button.

KP marches into your office with brother, tells you that either you trade him to one of his dream destinations, or he's breaking his contract and going back to playing in Europe. Are you going to treat it like a bluff? Or are you going to get as much back as you can for him, before he pulls the trigger?

If anyone hit the panic button it was KP and brother. He was rehabbing from an injury, didnt wait to see what Perry would do over the summer.

I absolutely would have called his bluff - would have looked him in the eye and said, look, we get that you're not happy, but you are our franchise player and we want to build around you. We are not trading you right now, full stop. We will be offering the 5 year max this summer but we needed to hold off for cap flexibility.

He's on the active roster the moment he walks out the door, too, so if he jets off to Spain he starts missing checks. They want to play hardball I would have played it right back. Don't believe for a second that he's taking the QO either. 7'3 guy coming off an ACL repair who hasn't played in 20 months is going to turn down 150m guaranteed to play out a season on a 7.5m QO? Or sit out another year just to get free of the Knicks?

IMO, worst case that would have actually happened is that he goes out and signs a 2+1 offer sheet and the Knicks are forced to match. Then they would be on the clock to trade him before his walk year if he was still disgruntled - but you'd have some time to work on that, and for other things to develop (draft picks, FA signings, KP getting healty and maybe growing up a bit.)

Knicks acted like they didn't have matching rights. Gave up their leverage way too soon, and for too little in return.

good points. Was KP going to do what Cousins did rejecting an offer??

And i don't think the only option was calling a bluff. (1) the CS should have know where he was in his recovery and they certainly shouldn't have said something so stupid as to imply his injry was more severe (hurting his market). I don't think CS did that to be malicous and trap him in NY. I just think Coach runs his mouth sometimes without thinking. (2) they should have realized KAT got paid and KP was going to compare his situation to KATs -- sometimes "trust me" isn't enough. You need to plan for that -- they didn't. (3)His brother and probably KP himself have been asses (they're not the first), how the hell do you let the situation get that bad, and is FO so immature or fanbase so stupid to place it all on them -- even if they are asses? Look, every time a player is insisting on a super max you can call him an ******* too. It almost always (I can't think of an exception) compromises the teams ability to get talent going forward, diminishes the ability to put more winning assets around that star to compete for a championship. You can argue logic to most player until you're blue in the face. Most players (not all there are exceptions) will insist on getting paid. Any of the elite franchises would have had a plan to figure this out. Our plan was for KP to trust a heretofore dysfunctional franchise was going to make things right, and he would be made whole.

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1148695944856162304

meaning we spent 20 million on a player without knowing he had a bum foot and the agent did tell us; so now he complements us because we're not fully dropping the deal for fraud!

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CTKnicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

I have a hard time believing that THJ with 2 years left on his deal could have been moved for an expiring with no other assets attached. Agree with the rest of this though, There was no reason that they couldn't have tried to repair the damage with KP - even after the trade request. That should have been a wake up call. Instead they hit the panic button.

KP marches into your office with brother, tells you that either you trade him to one of his dream destinations, or he's breaking his contract and going back to playing in Europe. Are you going to treat it like a bluff? Or are you going to get as much back as you can for him, before he pulls the trigger?

If anyone hit the panic button it was KP and brother. He was rehabbing from an injury, didnt wait to see what Perry would do over the summer.

There is a report he asked to speak to Dolan; they said no [perhaps fearing he would tell Dolan he lost confidence in FO/CS] and they traded his ass. If that report is true, that suggests FO hit the panic button and it reeks of immaturity on the FO part.

As a comparable, Kyrie (CLe), AD, Kawhi (SAS) (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other ones) all went public saying they want out, and the organization didn't dump them rashly in five minutes. They tried to salvage things and when that failed they maximized value

Now it could be the case that the FO nailed it and squeezed out eveything they could and then some. But the cap room didn't pan out as initially presented. If KP dominates we'll look super dumb for getting rid of a super young talent and we'll be further burned with worse picks.

Time will tell.

As I told another poster, you are assuming that Mills would greenlight a trade of this magnitude without keeping Dolan informed, every step of the way. Dolan has said before that he is staying away from big decisions when it comes to trades, but he wants to be in the loop. If Dolan really wanted to talk to KP and his "stage Mom" of a brother, he would have.

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CTKnicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

I have a hard time believing that THJ with 2 years left on his deal could have been moved for an expiring with no other assets attached. Agree with the rest of this though, There was no reason that they couldn't have tried to repair the damage with KP - even after the trade request. That should have been a wake up call. Instead they hit the panic button.

KP marches into your office with brother, tells you that either you trade him to one of his dream destinations, or he's breaking his contract and going back to playing in Europe. Are you going to treat it like a bluff? Or are you going to get as much back as you can for him, before he pulls the trigger?

If anyone hit the panic button it was KP and brother. He was rehabbing from an injury, didnt wait to see what Perry would do over the summer.

There is a report he asked to speak to Dolan; they said no [perhaps fearing he would tell Dolan he lost confidence in FO/CS] and they traded his ass. If that report is true, that suggests FO hit the panic button and it reeks of immaturity on the FO part.

As a comparable, Kyrie (CLe), AD, Kawhi (SAS) (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other ones) all went public saying they want out, and the organization didn't dump them rashly in five minutes. They tried to salvage things and when that failed they maximized value

Now it could be the case that the FO nailed it and squeezed out eveything they could and then some. But the cap room didn't pan out as initially presented. If KP dominates we'll look super dumb for getting rid of a super young talent and we'll be further burned with worse picks.

Time will tell.

As I told another poster, you are assuming that Mills would greenlight a trade of this magnitude without keeping Dolan informed, every step of the way. Dolan has said before that he is staying away from big decisions when it comes to trades, but he wants to be in the loop. If Dolan really wanted to talk to KP and his "stage Mom" of a brother, he would have.

Funny, your claiming others are "assuming" Dolan knew about trade. Yet yout okay "assuming" KP matched into the office,,demanded a trade, and threatened to go back to Europe? What about anything we kniw about KP makes anyine think he would want to play in Europe?

You keep advocating a very childish amd unprofessional response to a player coming to a NBA FO and fielding grievances. I do agree that Mills was guilty of a knee jerk short sighted response. Probably kept Dolan in the loop with "his version" of circumstances. Dolan being just as childish, see Oakley incident, probably reacted as emotionally as one wpuld expect,a child to react. Feel other more experienced Presidents and ownership would have salvaged the relationship and shown KP in the following months that they were being genuine to any promises made. But ONCE again, no one but KP, his reps, Mills and Perry know what really happened. But I will never take the word of our professional ass kissing Ivy League piranha. People will see, Mills only concern is extending his professional life with the Knicks. Every rebuild gets him another 5 years of paychecks. Who do you think got Uncle Phil (Another FO genius) ousted?

This is a child-like view of how the NBA works. If thats not what happened then you are calling Perry/Mills liars. Because thats their story.

After 20 years of Mills being a yes man for Dolan, you actually believe he didnt know what was going on? Talk about naive.

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1148695944856162304

meaning we spent 20 million on a player without knowing he had a bum foot and the agent did tell us; so now he complements us because we're not fully dropping the deal for fraud!

We didn't spend $20mil because the deal isn't finalised until a player passes his physical- you offer a contract contingent on them passing a physical- that's a basic fundamental, again I don't know why you're pretending not o know this (just like you were pretending the vice president of bball ops makes the draft choices). There's plenty of stuff you can criticize this team for without just making stuff up.

smackeddog wrote:

Chandler wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1148695944856162304

meaning we spent 20 million on a player without knowing he had a bum foot and the agent did tell us; so now he complements us because we're not fully dropping the deal for fraud!

Jesus dude, stop being so short sighted and whatnot, you are really exposing yourself

Knicks, just like any team, perform physicals on players before signing them.

He obviously failed and now both sides are figuring out what to do

if the deal was contingent on a physical and he failed the deal should be dead. failed condition precedent

When he's supposedly better we sign him then if healthy and if we still want him. What's to figure out.

we suffered a opportunity cost by thinking his money was tied up when it shouldn't have been

I don't think this is over-reacting. Sorry if it comes across that way

All FA deals (and traded) are contingent on a player passing a medical (unless that requirement is waived- i.e if you already know the player is injured). The deal is dead. Now we're looking at offering him a room exemption as an act of good will, likely because part of the reason for signing him was his personality/presence, so even if he can't play this whole season, he's worth having around (remember, otherwise that roster spot is going to Lance Thomas or Vince)

Nothing is being made up. that's what a "condition precedent" means -- it's not a "real" deal unless this condition (e.g., physical) is satisfied first. There are other forms of conditions, such as condition subsequent, which say in effect this deal is dead if you do something prohibited after the fact, e.g., commit some crime... Having said that, there are always negotiations before that happens and thus must be conducted in good faith and candor. As part of that one would reasonably expect someone on the Knicks askedd -- Are you healthy? among a host of other things. Obviously this would be followed up with the physical itself as part of due diligence. Entities wouldn't be satisfying their fiduciary duties without that DD -- even if they believed the guy 100% -- meaning even as a C-level executive he could be legally accountable.

IMO even if everything was done in good faith etc. (e.g., reggie and his agent didn't know about an injury), if he failed a physical the Knicks should just walk away from the deal, and talk when he's healthy. the benefit of this deal was a 1+1 structure. He's Bullock, not KD,

If there is any evidence that he knew about an injury and didn't pipe up about it, the Knicks should be furious -- there was an opportunity cost in thinking they had 10+ mill of cap space tied up with him

And FWIW regarding your other post, there's nothing being made up about AGM. Of course the GM has final say, but it's ridiculous to think that any GM goes solo. It's also ridiculous to read into any of my posts that I was saying these were Perry's picks -- and Perry's alone. Perry's own web page acknowledges or attempts to take credit for his roles in drafting and building rosters. Now if you don't like his record -- fine, pretend he had nothing to do with it. (He actually had much better suggestions but the GM over-ruled; he had no say in dumping Victor before he was good) We hired him for some other reason. If you like his record, you should be happy because that's probably a pretty good indicator of what to expect going forward. (I acknowledge his success with Knicks second rounders and UDFAs; I am unimpressed with his prior record -- not horrible but far from great IMO).

As a Knicks fan I would much prefer that he excel and that all my concerns be wrong.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CTKnicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

I have a hard time believing that THJ with 2 years left on his deal could have been moved for an expiring with no other assets attached. Agree with the rest of this though, There was no reason that they couldn't have tried to repair the damage with KP - even after the trade request. That should have been a wake up call. Instead they hit the panic button.

KP marches into your office with brother, tells you that either you trade him to one of his dream destinations, or he's breaking his contract and going back to playing in Europe. Are you going to treat it like a bluff? Or are you going to get as much back as you can for him, before he pulls the trigger?

If anyone hit the panic button it was KP and brother. He was rehabbing from an injury, didnt wait to see what Perry would do over the summer.

There is a report he asked to speak to Dolan; they said no [perhaps fearing he would tell Dolan he lost confidence in FO/CS] and they traded his ass. If that report is true, that suggests FO hit the panic button and it reeks of immaturity on the FO part.

As a comparable, Kyrie (CLe), AD, Kawhi (SAS) (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other ones) all went public saying they want out, and the organization didn't dump them rashly in five minutes. They tried to salvage things and when that failed they maximized value

Now it could be the case that the FO nailed it and squeezed out eveything they could and then some. But the cap room didn't pan out as initially presented. If KP dominates we'll look super dumb for getting rid of a super young talent and we'll be further burned with worse picks.

Time will tell.

As I told another poster, you are assuming that Mills would greenlight a trade of this magnitude without keeping Dolan informed, every step of the way. Dolan has said before that he is staying away from big decisions when it comes to trades, but he wants to be in the loop. If Dolan really wanted to talk to KP and his "stage Mom" of a brother, he would have.

Funny, your claiming others are "assuming" Dolan knew about trade. Yet yout okay "assuming" KP matched into the office,,demanded a trade, and threatened to go back to Europe? What about anything we kniw about KP makes anyine think he would want to play in Europe?

You keep advocating a very childish amd unprofessional response to a player coming to a NBA FO and fielding grievances. I do agree that Mills was guilty of a knee jerk short sighted response. Probably kept Dolan in the loop with "his version" of circumstances. Dolan being just as childish, see Oakley incident, probably reacted as emotionally as one wpuld expect,a child to react. Feel other more experienced Presidents and ownership would have salvaged the relationship and shown KP in the following months that they were being genuine to any promises made. But ONCE again, no one but KP, his reps, Mills and Perry know what really happened. But I will never take the word of our professional ass kissing Ivy League piranha. People will see, Mills only concern is extending his professional life with the Knicks. Every rebuild gets him another 5 years of paychecks. Who do you think got Uncle Phil (Another FO genius) ousted?

This is a child-like view of how the NBA works. If thats not what happened then you are calling Perry/Mills liars. Because thats their story.

After 20 years of Mills being a yes man for Dolan, you actually believe he didnt know what was going on? Talk about naive.

Of course Dolan knew. I don't think that's the issue

Whether Dolan knew through a Perry/Mills filter or heard directly from KP and his idiot brother is completely different question and I think the heart of the issue. From Stephen A. Smith (apply huge grain of salt here) seems like KP wanted to pull a LBJ act and Perry/Mills said no dice

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

CTKnicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

I have a hard time believing that THJ with 2 years left on his deal could have been moved for an expiring with no other assets attached. Agree with the rest of this though, There was no reason that they couldn't have tried to repair the damage with KP - even after the trade request. That should have been a wake up call. Instead they hit the panic button.

KP marches into your office with brother, tells you that either you trade him to one of his dream destinations, or he's breaking his contract and going back to playing in Europe. Are you going to treat it like a bluff? Or are you going to get as much back as you can for him, before he pulls the trigger?

If anyone hit the panic button it was KP and brother. He was rehabbing from an injury, didnt wait to see what Perry would do over the summer.

There is a report he asked to speak to Dolan; they said no [perhaps fearing he would tell Dolan he lost confidence in FO/CS] and they traded his ass. If that report is true, that suggests FO hit the panic button and it reeks of immaturity on the FO part.

As a comparable, Kyrie (CLe), AD, Kawhi (SAS) (and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other ones) all went public saying they want out, and the organization didn't dump them rashly in five minutes. They tried to salvage things and when that failed they maximized value

Now it could be the case that the FO nailed it and squeezed out eveything they could and then some. But the cap room didn't pan out as initially presented. If KP dominates we'll look super dumb for getting rid of a super young talent and we'll be further burned with worse picks.

Time will tell.

As I told another poster, you are assuming that Mills would greenlight a trade of this magnitude without keeping Dolan informed, every step of the way. Dolan has said before that he is staying away from big decisions when it comes to trades, but he wants to be in the loop. If Dolan really wanted to talk to KP and his "stage Mom" of a brother, he would have.

Funny, your claiming others are "assuming" Dolan knew about trade. Yet yout okay "assuming" KP matched into the office,,demanded a trade, and threatened to go back to Europe? What about anything we kniw about KP makes anyine think he would want to play in Europe?

You keep advocating a very childish amd unprofessional response to a player coming to a NBA FO and fielding grievances. I do agree that Mills was guilty of a knee jerk short sighted response. Probably kept Dolan in the loop with "his version" of circumstances. Dolan being just as childish, see Oakley incident, probably reacted as emotionally as one wpuld expect,a child to react. Feel other more experienced Presidents and ownership would have salvaged the relationship and shown KP in the following months that they were being genuine to any promises made. But ONCE again, no one but KP, his reps, Mills and Perry know what really happened. But I will never take the word of our professional ass kissing Ivy League piranha. People will see, Mills only concern is extending his professional life with the Knicks. Every rebuild gets him another 5 years of paychecks. Who do you think got Uncle Phil (Another FO genius) ousted?

This is a child-like view of how the NBA works. If thats not what happened then you are calling Perry/Mills liars. Because thats their story.

After 20 years of Mills being a yes man for Dolan, you actually believe he didnt know what was going on? Talk about naive.

Of course Dolan knew. I don't think that's the issue

Whether Dolan knew through a Perry/Mills filter or heard directly from KP and his idiot brother is completely different question and I think the heart of the issue. From Stephen A. Smith (apply huge grain of salt here) seems like KP wanted to pull a LBJ act and Perry/Mills said no dice

Juice card DENIED and sent packing

No "Latvian" pulp in the big apple!