NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This free agency feels exactly like 2015 when we burned several million as well on Robin Lopez, Aaron Afflalo, Derrick Williams and Kevin Seraphin for $30 million. And we were using the same nonsense talking points about doing it for "veteran leadership" and how we shouldn't worry because they were only "short-term deals". One season later, not a single one of those players were on our team. Had we only used a fraction of the money spent on those guys instead on taking Jason Thompson, Carl Landry and Nik Stauskaus into space (~$20 million), we would've had the 3rd pick in the 2017 draft and the 14th pick in the 2019 draft. I definitely would've preferred those picks.

We ****ed ourselves in the same manner this offseason. We could've had the Warriors 2024 first round pick OUTRIGHT when Stephen Curry will be 36 years old, Klay Thompson will be 34 years old and Draymond Green might not even be on the team. The cost? Taking on Andre Iguodala who provides every bit the "veteran leadership" a Taj Gibson could and likely could be flipped for assets at the deadline.

We could've also had the Heat 2023 first round pick (top 5 protected; unprotected by 2026) when Jimmy Butler won't be in the NBA and Pat Riley might not even be on this plane of existence. The cost? The $10.5 million attached to Mo Harkless, who is a useful player in his own right and might even be able to get you a good 2nd round pick at the deadline.

If it came down to it, we could've still signed the bulk of these horse**** contracts, if that's what we wanted to do. But you can't fix stupid I'm told and the Knicks are exactly that. I just don't understand how the fans aren't picking up on how we're screwing ourselves the same way every year.

The difference between 2015 and 2019 was in 2015 the goal was to sign guys to make a playoff run. In 2019 the goal was to sign guys that would help a very young team grow organically and learn how to win. The front office had a plan b and executed it quickly. Reportedly they had 5 players targeted and got 4.

And what I'm saying is that the goal was stupid then and now. We're trying to sign guys that can help a young team "grow...and learn how to win"? Exactly what has any of these guys won? I could tolerate Julius Randle but all these other guys? They're castoffs when we got them and will be castoffs when they float onto other teams when these contracts expire. I could understand making these decisions if there were no other opportunities you could follow up on but this obviously wasn't the case.

EDIT: For the record, I thought we were at a fork-in-the-road in 2015. Either we should've traded that 4th pick (Porzingis) for an opportunity to reload around Melo or trade Melo and begin a rebuild. I preferred the rebuild even then though. The writing was obviously on the wall with Melo and his health. Thought we should've tried flipping him for that MIA pick at 10 and expirings. When we decided to go the middle of the pack route, I thought the Afflalo signing was alright. Was even fine with the Lopez signing. But it always felt like we were settling in to be a threadmill team that would would be poorly positioned for the future and incapable of competing meaningfully. I feel the same way now.

NardDogNation wrote:This free agency feels exactly like 2015 when we burned several million as well on Robin Lopez, Aaron Afflalo, Derrick Williams and Kevin Seraphin for $30 million. And we were using the same nonsense talking points about doing it for "veteran leadership" and how we shouldn't worry because they were only "short-term deals". One season later, not a single one of those players were on our team. Had we only used a fraction of the money spent on those guys instead on taking Jason Thompson, Carl Landry and Nik Stauskaus into space (~$20 million), we would've had the 3rd pick in the 2017 draft and the 14th pick in the 2019 draft. I definitely would've preferred those picks.

We ****ed ourselves in the same manner this offseason. We could've had the Warriors 2024 first round pick OUTRIGHT when Stephen Curry will be 36 years old, Klay Thompson will be 34 years old and Draymond Green might not even be on the team. The cost? Taking on Andre Iguodala who provides every bit the "veteran leadership" a Taj Gibson could and likely could be flipped for assets at the deadline.

We could've also had the Heat 2023 first round pick (top 5 protected; unprotected by 2026) when Jimmy Butler won't be in the NBA and Pat Riley might not even be on this plane of existence. The cost? The $10.5 million attached to Mo Harkless, who is a useful player in his own right and might even be able to get you a good 2nd round pick at the deadline.

If it came down to it, we could've still signed the bulk of these horse**** contracts, if that's what we wanted to do. But you can't fix stupid I'm told and the Knicks are exactly that. I just don't understand how the fans aren't picking up on how we're screwing ourselves the same way every year.

Those trades weren't there for the Knicks. Just because another set of teams do a trade doesn't mean that trade option was EXACTLY the same and open for the Knicks. It just doesn't work that way.

The Knicks TRIED to get into the Iguodala trade but were denied.

Heat never offered Harkless to the Knicks.(You might want to consider Riley's history with the Knicks here too...)

Some deals that you see with other teams just aren't universally there for every team.

Some of you only care about draft picks, fck winning, if we can't win a TITLE we mind as well be the worst team in the league, and ya'll are cool with that.

You don't even notice how Mills moves are very similar to Phils moves minus the TRIANGLE

knicks1248 wrote:Either you haven't come to grips with how in experience this FO is, or your just a homer that will support anything they do.

Some of you only care about draft picks, fck winning, if we can't win a TITLE we mind as well be the worst team in the league, and ya'll are cool with that.

You don't even notice how Mills moves are very similar to Phils moves minus the TRIANGLE

Until Phil brought Rose/Noah to the Knicks, you are right. The plan was similar. Difference being Perry didnt hit the panic button and go for the quick fix. When Phil signed those two players, the rebuild was officially over.

Unless you see instant results, I doubt you will be satisfied. This franchise has sucked for the better part of 20 years. Going to take more than an offseason or two to repair a dysfunctional franchise. No miracle cures.

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Good points. I think we are still at the tip of the iceberg stage in terms of the facts. I know when Butler was screaming to get off Minny (publicly) and AD did his shenanigans or when KI wanted off of Cavs (again quite publicly), none of those teams were as eager for the cathartic, F-U moment, I'll trade your ass right now.

If KP comes back and dominates (like many envision, and with the qualifier IF) this will go down as the dumbest Knick move yet -- which is pretty impressive given our history over the last 20 years -- we're approaching Sterling territory

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Good points. I think we are still at the tip of the iceberg stage in terms of the facts. I know when Butler was screaming to get off Minny (publicly) and AD did his shenanigans or when KI wanted off of Cavs (again quite publicly), none of those teams were as eager for the cathartic, F-U moment, I'll trade your ass right now.

If KP comes back and dominates (like many envision, and with the qualifier IF) this will go down as the dumbest Knick move yet -- which is pretty impressive given our history over the last 20 years -- we're approaching Sterling territory

The fact that after Phil got Fired, Melo still wanted out and KP still had a problems with the FO(and perry wasn't here for the skipped exit meeting) that is evident that MILLS was just as much to blame for the dysfunction as PHIL was...and perry wasn't(the supposed player friendly GM)able to mend a bridge that had been severely burned..I'm not saying MELO or KP weren't partial to blame as well..

I'm just so sick of PPl wanted to exclude MILLS from anything that went wrong when Phils was here and he was the GM...The only reason mills kept his JOB was because he is VERY GOOD FRIEND OF DOLAN, the guy every knick fan wants gone( that clearly hasn't sunk into the homers heads), it has nothing to to with his qualifications or experience because he HAD NONE, ZERO, NADA..

Where do you get this stuff about you being one of the lone Mills critics on this board? Are you kidding me? As far as Phil, he was calling the shots (when he showed up for work) not Mills. Mills was his "yes man", which had been his role (his choice) for decades.

The smartest thing Mills did was to find someone other than himself to build a team. Smartest thing you can do as a fan is to give Perry some time.

Marv wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Well nobody knows for sure but i’d like to think i wouldn't. That i would have appreciated that this organization featured me from the start, promoted me, started me, supported me, positioned me to be an all-star by my 3rd year. That i was a massive fan favorite, treated like a god in madision square garden. All this in the greatest city in the world with a large latvian population to boot. I still fail to see the wisdom, honor or gain of his move.

Winning is the only thing that matters to players asides from money. The Knicks Mangementbhas failed in that department.

Vmart wrote:

Marv wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Well nobody knows for sure but i’d like to think i wouldn't. That i would have appreciated that this organization featured me from the start, promoted me, started me, supported me, positioned me to be an all-star by my 3rd year. That i was a massive fan favorite, treated like a god in madision square garden. All this in the greatest city in the world with a large latvian population to boot. I still fail to see the wisdom, honor or gain of his move.

Winning is the only thing that matters to players asides from money. The Knicks Mangementbhas failed in that department.

well that’s on opinion. i believe that a guy in his very early twenties isn’t at that point yet where he wants to threaten his team to get to go to wherever a team is winning.

TripleThreat wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:This free agency feels exactly like 2015 when we burned several million as well on Robin Lopez, Aaron Afflalo, Derrick Williams and Kevin Seraphin for $30 million. And we were using the same nonsense talking points about doing it for "veteran leadership" and how we shouldn't worry because they were only "short-term deals". One season later, not a single one of those players were on our team. Had we only used a fraction of the money spent on those guys instead on taking Jason Thompson, Carl Landry and Nik Stauskaus into space (~$20 million), we would've had the 3rd pick in the 2017 draft and the 14th pick in the 2019 draft. I definitely would've preferred those picks.

We ****ed ourselves in the same manner this offseason. We could've had the Warriors 2024 first round pick OUTRIGHT when Stephen Curry will be 36 years old, Klay Thompson will be 34 years old and Draymond Green might not even be on the team. The cost? Taking on Andre Iguodala who provides every bit the "veteran leadership" a Taj Gibson could and likely could be flipped for assets at the deadline.

We could've also had the Heat 2023 first round pick (top 5 protected; unprotected by 2026) when Jimmy Butler won't be in the NBA and Pat Riley might not even be on this plane of existence. The cost? The $10.5 million attached to Mo Harkless, who is a useful player in his own right and might even be able to get you a good 2nd round pick at the deadline.

If it came down to it, we could've still signed the bulk of these horse**** contracts, if that's what we wanted to do. But you can't fix stupid I'm told and the Knicks are exactly that. I just don't understand how the fans aren't picking up on how we're screwing ourselves the same way every year.

Those trades weren't there for the Knicks. Just because another set of teams do a trade doesn't mean that trade option was EXACTLY the same and open for the Knicks. It just doesn't work that way.

The Knicks TRIED to get into the Iguodala trade but were denied.

Heat never offered Harkless to the Knicks.(You might want to consider Riley's history with the Knicks here too...)

Some deals that you see with other teams just aren't universally there for every team.

I posted the same thing in another thread but just like my post, this will be ignored because it doesn't fit into the agenda that Perry doesn't know what he is doing or the should be fired.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Good points. I think we are still at the tip of the iceberg stage in terms of the facts. I know when Butler was screaming to get off Minny (publicly) and AD did his shenanigans or when KI wanted off of Cavs (again quite publicly), none of those teams were as eager for the cathartic, F-U moment, I'll trade your ass right now.

If KP comes back and dominates (like many envision, and with the qualifier IF) this will go down as the dumbest Knick move yet -- which is pretty impressive given our history over the last 20 years -- we're approaching Sterling territory

The fact that after Phil got Fired, Melo still wanted out and KP still had a problems with the FO(and perry wasn't here for the skipped exit meeting) that is evident that MILLS was just as much to blame for the dysfunction as PHIL was...and perry wasn't(the supposed player friendly GM)able to mend a bridge that had been severely burned..I'm not saying MELO or KP weren't partial to blame as well..

I'm just so sick of PPl wanted to exclude MILLS from anything that went wrong when Phils was here and he was the GM...The only reason mills kept his JOB was because he is VERY GOOD FRIEND OF DOLAN, the guy every knick fan wants gone( that clearly hasn't sunk into the homers heads), it has nothing to to with his qualifications or experience because he HAD NONE, ZERO, NADA..

Where do you get this stuff about you being one of the lone Mills critics on this board? Are you kidding me? As far as Phil, he was calling the shots (when he showed up for work) not Mills. Mills was his "yes man", which had been his role (his choice) for decades.

The smartest thing Mills did was to find someone other than himself to build a team. Smartest thing you can do as a fan is to give Perry some time.

Perry is a yes man like Mills is a yes Man..

How can you go to a person with no experience and asked him for advice..Dolan is clueless, and mills has to answer to him, Mills is clueless and perry has to answer to him..soon as a major decision needs to made, here COMES DOLAN..and mills answer is 'WHATEVER YOU SAY BOSS"

Would you take your car to a shop where no one had any real experience on how to fix it, just a bunch of youtube videos...

Think about it GUST, Walsh turned the franchise into respectability, took him a yr 1/2 yrs ,no FA wanted to come here, so he settled for Amare, and he had to overpay, but at least we were a playoff team every yr he was here and there was NO DRAMA AT ALL..

Perry has very little say other than Signing FA that he drafted in Orlando that were considered BUST..

A yes man does what he is told. Who is telling Perry what deals to make..Mills? Have you seen any questionable long term deals handed out? Big push for Westbrook? Paul? If Perry was a yes man, pretty sure one of these deals would have been made by now.

Marv wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Marv wrote:

MS wrote:What’s interesting in our rush to clear cap space last year, we had an opportunity to move Hardaway for an expiring. Which would have left Courtney Lee who you could have moved for Frank and a future 1 without a doubt. Thus keeping KP.

Listening to Wojo and Ramona on his podcast, he made a point to get into how when KP was drafted they took a car together to the garden, KP told him not to compare him to Darko, and other Europeans. Said all he wanted to do is get better and practice. He also mentioned that on multiple occasions he couldn’t get in the gym because there weren’t staff ready to work with him. He also said on multiple occasions his stuff wasn’t laid out in his locker.

In addition during the Phil Jackson **** storm, the Knicks put him in the middle of the situation and were asking him to take the side of the organization. Which put KP in a very difficult position
because the locker room still had a lot of respect for Melo.

They also said the new regime needed to work harder to repair the damage that had been done.

Everyone is quick to say **** KP and his brother, what has he accomplished? If you’re a budding star, you’re watching this **** show unfold and you want to talk to the owner about the direction of the worst run organization in sports and are denied. Perhaps you would say **** you too.

Well nobody knows for sure but i’d like to think i wouldn't. That i would have appreciated that this organization featured me from the start, promoted me, started me, supported me, positioned me to be an all-star by my 3rd year. That i was a massive fan favorite, treated like a god in madision square garden. All this in the greatest city in the world with a large latvian population to boot. I still fail to see the wisdom, honor or gain of his move.

Winning is the only thing that matters to players asides from money. The Knicks Mangementbhas failed in that department.

well that’s on opinion. i believe that a guy in his very early twenties isn’t at that point yet where he wants to threaten his team to get to go to wherever a team is winning.

So is everything you wrote Marv. Placing your views of loyalty on to KP makes it all an opinion.