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Expectations for Next Season


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Knicksfan
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We all know the story by now: Durant and Kyrie are in Brooklyn. Horford is in Philly. Kemba is in Boston. Kawhi could remain in Toronto or more probably bolt to one of the LA teams. The Atlantic division is tough. The East? Not so much.

We signed Randle, Portis, Bullock, Gibson, Ellington and Payton. Not the bounty we expected, but a clear sign that tanking isn't an option anymore. Is it?

Today, how do you see our season playing out? How many wins do we get?

0-17 wins: Unintentional tank with no progress on youth and Fiz sucks as a coach.
18-29 wins: Slow progress on key young pieces, but we are back at the lottery.
30-37 wins: Marked improvement, future sure is bright but we come up short on playoffs.
38-42 wins: Unexpected playoff run has the city buzzing and fans dreaming of bigger 2021.
43-54 wins: Best case scenario 1 thru 15 as a dream season shocks the world.
55-73 wins: I'm loving this alternate universe with a healthy KD and Kawhi owning NY.
74-82 wins: I just traded Frank for Giannis in 2K! Who needs the real NBA?
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Author Thread
HofstraBBall
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7/3/2019  10:12 AM
Vmart wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Vmart wrote:Lottery.

insightful as always

I’m being positive here.

I think the bigger question is who gets the most playing time and what will be the focus throughout the year. Get the whole we need to win to change perception idea but hope its not a year we try to wimd 35 games with guys that will be elsewhere in 2020.
Hoping we stay with the young core playing most and expanding on chemistry. Mitch, RJ, Smith, Frank, Randle, Iggy. With help from Trier amd Dot. Think getting 30 with that core would be more satisfying.

My opinion and hope now is that Fiz and FO will coach to win from the gate. Then abandon if not working and trade assets for picks. Then roll with young core to end of year. If thats the case I see 30 to 35 wins and added picks. Id be real happy with that after missing on the 2019 crop.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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JesseDark
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7/3/2019  10:16 AM
I am seeing through my rose colored glasses 35-37 wins and a miss on the 7th or 8th seed. Keep hope alive.
Bring back dee-fense
BigDaddyG
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7/3/2019  10:32 AM
Nalod wrote:summer league is not a good indicator. Depends on what your looking at and thats for coaches to see.

If we can win 34 games thats a double from last year. I know we all have our own arbitrary standards but I’m trying to stay grounded on reality. A double would be fantastic!!!
The progress of players is incremental so in a long season I expect fatigue and injuries to play a role as always.
How they deal with it is important. Knox finished strong last year. Says a lot.

There is a lot of potential here. I suppose other teams have this too. Our division is not easy.
Face it, even without Kwahi Toronto is still a playoff team. Boston with Kemba-Tatum-Haywood core is still 48-50 wins good. PHilly should be a powerhouse and Brooklyn healthier with Kyrie is a 42+ win team.


I agree. Summer League is a good way to gauge how a player moves and reacts to near NBA speed. But as we saw with Knox and Frank last year, there's a huuuggggge jump from SL to real NBA games.
I see us winning 25-30 games. As last year showed, you need real vet's out there to lead by example. You can't have guys like Kanter and THJ talking to a guy like Trier about defense and unselfish play. Trier is going to laugh at them. I would.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Vmart
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7/3/2019  10:42 AM
Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.
misterearl
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7/3/2019  10:43 AM
25 assists per game.

Hit the open man.

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/3/2019  10:45 AM
There is a plan VMart

Just not the one you expected, or that was hyped.

Perry had a Plan B, and Mills had his back. They have created the rudiments of a culture and player development. Brought in real talent to contribute to the incremental resuscitation of the franchise.  Sean Marks is much farther ahead, but he’s got a year or two in Perry. 
 
If the Knicks stay true to the plan, and they seem to be, then we need to show incremental but significant growth. 
 
I think with big, athletic young pups like Randle and Portis, a PG on the rise like Payton, and solid vets like Gibson, Ellington and Bullock, we are adding real talent and a degree of professionalism. 
 
I think New York fans are going to be very pleasantly surprised by Randle and Portis, whom I was campaigning for, in my insignificant way. 
 
Why did we give Payton 8 million and Gibson 10 million when Mudiay, Vonleh, Kornet and Herzonja signed for minimum or low MCE. 
 
Who is likely to have a better effect on Mitch and Knox than then TAJ?
 
Advantage GIBSON.  Taj brings the Knicks something they have not had since Kurt Thomas.  In terms of game, toughness and temperament.  Oh, and DEFENSE. 
 
I liked Mudiay, and how he grew, and I am thrilled he is on Utah for the minimum, as playing with Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conley will be fantastic for his continued growth curve. 
 
Mudiay or Payton?  Payton doles out more assists, is more efficient at getting to the rack, and a better defender.  He will make Smith (who has a world of talent), and Frank (still finding his niche) play for their ****ing lives. 
 
Advantage PAYTON. 
 
Kornet or PORTIS?  Two stretch four/centers.  Portis is a better 3-point shooter and rebounder, just tougher, more consistent, has greater experience and is way farther along.  And I liked Kornet. 
 
Advantage PORTIS. 
 
Vonleh or RANDLE.  Come on.  I liked Noah, and what he gave us, bur Randle is a significant step up in talent, offensively, inside and out, better passer, better three point shooter, better rebounder, more physical presence.  Vonleh was a good role player, and will contine to be.  Randle has an opportunity to be SPECIAL. 
 
Advantage RANDLE. 
 
Herzonja or BULLOCK.  I liked Mario and had a rooting interest, and I was proud of how he played the last month or so, but he was so up and down, so ****ing inconsistent, and whereas Reggie shot close to 40% from trey, Mario was inexplicably around 25%, which is odd, seeing as how that is a strength.  And while Mario showed some toughness on D against LeBron, Bullock is more the template for what the Knicks see going forward in RJ, least ways, in his tadpole stages, though James Harden/Kobe are what RJ suggest, aspires to.  And Bullock is a tough defender, another area where RJ has to get to the next level. 
 
Advantage BULLOCK. 
 
Might just as well say Hardaway or Ellington. Wayne is a better three point shooter, and has carved out a specialist’s niche

Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

-chip stern

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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7/3/2019  10:53 AM
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

once a knick always a knick
martin
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7/3/2019  11:02 AM
misterearl wrote:-chip stern

I haven't heard that name in years, thanks for bringing him back

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Vmart
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7/3/2019  11:19 AM
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

GoNyGoNyGo
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7/3/2019  11:41 AM
38 wins and in playoff contention until the last 2 weeks. Lottery pick and hopefully 1 added by trade.

IF RJ and DSj can light it up in the guard position than maybe they can make the playoffs. That would be a bonus for this team this year. Experience is always good.

knicks1248
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7/3/2019  11:46 AM
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

ES
Vmart
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7/3/2019  11:52 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.

martin
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7/3/2019  12:06 PM
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.

RJ hasn't even suited up for a SL game and you are asking what has Barrett done right now?

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Vmart
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7/3/2019  12:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/3/2019  12:15 PM
martin wrote:
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.

RJ hasn't even suited up for a SL game and you are asking what has Barrett done right now?

Martin you are jumping to conclusions on discussion. It’s what has Barrett done. Right now Dotson is a better player.

knicks1248
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7/3/2019  12:20 PM
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.

To some degree your right, and that's not good either, because if we have to go through another yr of Fizdales 50 different rotations, it's going to lead to another tank yr.

Guys need to know their roles,and what kind of minutes they will get, that's extremely important to have any kind of consistency.

I can see fiz doing the same BS he did last season, sitting guys for several games to see how other guys play...

He may think that's motivation, but it's not, IMO it deflates the confidence of most young players, and we saw that with frank, knox and dotson.

ES
Vmart
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7/3/2019  12:28 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

Since there is no rush for the youth why even start RJ?

we have a better 2g than him?

I think that's actually a decent starting 5

Yeah Dotson. Since we are giving run to tenured players what has Barrett done right now Dotson is a much better player than RJ.

To some degree your right, and that's not good either, because if we have to go through another yr of Fizdales 50 different rotations, it's going to lead to another tank yr.

Guys need to know their roles,and what kind of minutes they will get, that's extremely important to have any kind of consistency.

I can see fiz doing the same BS he did last season, sitting guys for several games to see how other guys play...

He may think that's motivation, but it's not, IMO it deflates the confidence of most young players, and we saw that with frank, knox and dotson.

You have to go back to Miami and what they do. They are as bad at player development as are the Knicks. Sounds crazy right. But to the research in Miami and you will see very little in the development side.

Knicksfan
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7/3/2019  2:20 PM
misterearl wrote:
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.

Experience, no need to rush the Yutes

C: Portis

PF: Randle

SF: Bullock

SG: RJ Barrett

PG: Payton

This might be the lineup, especially if they want to protect Robinson from the start. I think that Knox might be the wild card here. I know most are down on him, but he is a big part of the future and the team made sure to give him help in the offseason to work on many areas of his game. He could get the nod at SF if he has really improved.

Knicks_Fan
CrushAlot
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7/3/2019  2:45 PM
Vmart wrote:Personally they need to play the youth from the very beginning to the end and have them learning how to play and execute an offense. But I don’t trust the Knicks and they are going to go vet heavy and screw up the time line for the young players and simply they will start dumping them for more mediocrity. The ship is rudderless there is no plan and everything is happening on the whim. No rhyme or reason. Accumulating players for the sake of accumulating players.
The only young guy I wanted to see get more minutes last year was Allen. Last year’s rookie minutes average, Mitch 21 a game, Zo 23 a game, Knox 28 a game. Based on that, what makes you think the Fiz kids are going to get less minutes? Also, competing for minutes isn’t a bad thing. Practicing with experienced pros that will lead in practice, in games and on the floor isn't a bad thing. Lance is a great vet but he is limited. Lee was limited last year. I am sure if Lee posted here he could make a strong argument that the Knicks emphasize youth and development. Kanter, and DJ
would echo that in my opinion.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Panos
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7/3/2019  6:03 PM
martin wrote:
Panos wrote:We have *1* player that could start on a playoff team, in Randle. The rest are role players or not there yet. Still scratching my head over Taj and Ellington signings. 25 wins. And that could be over-optimistic.
Pretty sure Taj is there to help out Randle and Robinson with D, on the court and in the lockerroom.

Don't know enough about Ellington but he would be an additional shooter.

I'm scratching my head over the price tag.

MX25
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7/3/2019  6:05 PM
44 wins.
Expectations for Next Season

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