NYKBocker wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1145704153806770176

Woj is right. This isn't sexy but this is Plan B. Plan A was swinging for the fences but Durant's achilles gave out and that basically ruined Plan A. They are building this team with a core of RJ, Mitch and Kevin. These 2 year contracts for capable, professional vets is what you need for this team. Please re-sign Kornet and Mario and I will be content.

It's not a horrible group, and they are solid role players, but these are the type of players you need to put around all stars.

arkrud wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I can't give the Knicks FO a good mark for this FA.

And no, it's not because of KD and Kyrie. In fact, I think we may have dodged bullets with one or both of them for all of the reasons stated above

The reason I don't like the moves is because the guys we are getting, we are getting for a reason; they are not team transformational talents; they are guys that current teams didn't want and we're not getting any bargains. The only bargains in FA are transformational players or if you believe your FO has that special eye for talent in a system you can get a bargain there too. We will likely move out of the lottery (not good) and be looking to dump these guys in 2 years to chase the next pipe dream (Giannis)

If our current process is building through the draft we should have pulled some of the deals other teams did eg Iggy

If our current team strategy is defense, passing, and smart players we probably scored a D+ or C-

So I'm happy we dodged bullets; happy the deals are only 2 years. Honestly things could have gone worse. But there is no way to realistically spin this as positive. We have these guys because we need to reach the cap floor, and the FO and CS are desperate to get some more wins to save their jobs. Sorry to be such a downer on this; just calling it like I see it

We got Perry from Sacramento for no compensation; mull that over. His resume is Orlando and Sacramento -- ouch. He thought Mario was a good player not once but twice. I am very happy with his Mitch pick and Alonzo but overall supremely skeptical of the FO and this both are desperate to retain their jobs. Does anyone honestly think that when they are fired from Knicks either will have a president or GM gig in the future?

You are all over the place.
You state that we actually did everything correctly considering next year weak FA and draft and interesting opportunities coming in 2 years.
But at the same time you complain we did not get more assets like NBA teams are lining up to give it to us for nothing (as we have nothing to offer yet).
The development stage we are in required our young players to play for the win and so we get reinforcements and vets to balance the roster.
We also managed to get more prospects to increase the probability of getting good player or good trade asset.
So set you mind straight on what the goals and abilities are. This will put all in place.

Wrong.

I'm saying things sucked but could have been even worse. If you think that's good, throw a party!

Look, it's apparent we're not getting Kawhi and we know that because of the way FO has spent money (we couldn't sign him now even if he wanted to come). As soon as we knew those great FEs weren't coming (i.e., the primary justification for dumping KP) we should have been collecting other teams bad contracts and assets, and continue to focus on rebuild -- the hard way

Getting a bunch of mediocre players is going to take us out of the lottery. For what? to now give Randle and Portis a chance to showcase themselves instead of Mudiay and Vonleh

The moves are all desperation. They could have been worse; that doesn't make them good

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

I like the Randle and Portia moves. The rest. It not so much. We do need to move away from Fizz sooner rather than later. Player development isn’t a strength of his or the Knicks for that matter. The Knicks need to start and address this by getting a coach that get these players to work as a team and teach the young players to work as a team.

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:Very satisfied with the free agency results.
No malcontents, no albatross contracts, no overpaying.
Great job by FO in another step into right direction.
Respect.

95% of knicks fans disagree, we are currently the biggest laughing stock on social media, and every single sport show across the board has labeled us losers x100.

So far no Team IN the NBA has overpaid for anyone, in fact you have a few players that took less so their respected teams can add more..

Next yrs Draft class and FA class will be the worst in decades..

No Rainman most knick fans arent doom and gloom like you. They understand that in years past we would throw away all our picks or cap space for injury prone players or headcases. I know you hate that we are building through the draft but its the best move in the longrun. We are building a solid young core but also adding good support around them. Sure they may not be the "sexy" names but they will help a lot. We also keeps our assets and financial flexibility for the future so when we do get a BIG Free agent we will be in even better shape

You said the same thing when we drafted KP, Willy and frank and we signed THJ, where are they now..YOUNG CORES STAY TOGETHER WHEN THEY ARE WINNING..not when the winning % is .308..are you in denial about that

If rules state you can only trade 1 pick in 3 yrs why are you acting like the FO did wonders...lol

When was the LAST TIME THE NETS had Lottery picks and Cap money, they just made the P/O and had just as Much money as we did...

You and I both know that KD and Kyrie's contracts will have expire and the knicks will be no closer to a championship..

You probably the one trying the whole life to win the lottery by buying one ticket every time it runs.
The truth it you lost before you started unless you will leave million years.
There is no lottery in pro sports. It's very hard frustrating business when you pay for every mistake.
Being a fan of the org which made so many is hard road to take.
So if you want to continue stop buying the lottery tickets and put your mind to work.

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https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/1145447828027666432

Who gives s sh^t about the media? Its their job to cause controversy. if you honestly believe all that then you are far more guillible and far gone than I thought lol

Awwh cmon dude, if they were singing praises you would be supporting every word.

I went back and looked at all the praises you were giving KP in OCT/NOV/DEC, funny to here how your talking about him now.

when I was pointing out my concerns of his health, fatigue and wanting to play for a winner and not signing an extension, you pretty much laughed and knock my concerns to the floor, I was raining on your parade.

Only to flip the script and side with the FO now that his gone, you did the same with phil. Anything Mills does you support..Anything.

You running think everyone is against the knicks

Arent these the type of moves you have wanted the Knicks to make though? Of course KD and Kwahi were the best case scenario etc. But after that wasn't signing productive veterans what you pushed for over depending on draft picks? You pushed for Rondo, Hill, Holiday 2 years ago.

Portis is 24 and put up 14-8 in 26 mins last season. Will get 15mil per over 2 seasons. When we had Willy you complained about his lack of 3 point shooting. Portis shot it at a 39% clip last season.
Randle is 24 who put up 21.4-8.7-3.1 in 30mins last season. Will get 21mil over 2 years with a TO.

Taj, Bullock, Ellington are all seasoned veterans forcing guys like Mitch, Dotson, Trier, Knox, Frank to have to beat them out. Which is exactly what you have clammored for.

Where is the consistency in your beliefs?

Chandler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I can't give the Knicks FO a good mark for this FA.

And no, it's not because of KD and Kyrie. In fact, I think we may have dodged bullets with one or both of them for all of the reasons stated above

The reason I don't like the moves is because the guys we are getting, we are getting for a reason; they are not team transformational talents; they are guys that current teams didn't want and we're not getting any bargains. The only bargains in FA are transformational players or if you believe your FO has that special eye for talent in a system you can get a bargain there too. We will likely move out of the lottery (not good) and be looking to dump these guys in 2 years to chase the next pipe dream (Giannis)

If our current process is building through the draft we should have pulled some of the deals other teams did eg Iggy

If our current team strategy is defense, passing, and smart players we probably scored a D+ or C-

So I'm happy we dodged bullets; happy the deals are only 2 years. Honestly things could have gone worse. But there is no way to realistically spin this as positive. We have these guys because we need to reach the cap floor, and the FO and CS are desperate to get some more wins to save their jobs. Sorry to be such a downer on this; just calling it like I see it

We got Perry from Sacramento for no compensation; mull that over. His resume is Orlando and Sacramento -- ouch. He thought Mario was a good player not once but twice. I am very happy with his Mitch pick and Alonzo but overall supremely skeptical of the FO and this both are desperate to retain their jobs. Does anyone honestly think that when they are fired from Knicks either will have a president or GM gig in the future?

You are all over the place.
You state that we actually did everything correctly considering next year weak FA and draft and interesting opportunities coming in 2 years.
But at the same time you complain we did not get more assets like NBA teams are lining up to give it to us for nothing (as we have nothing to offer yet).
The development stage we are in required our young players to play for the win and so we get reinforcements and vets to balance the roster.
We also managed to get more prospects to increase the probability of getting good player or good trade asset.
So set you mind straight on what the goals and abilities are. This will put all in place.

Wrong.

I'm saying things sucked but could have been even worse. If you think that's good, throw a party!

Look, it's apparent we're not getting Kawhi and we know that because of the way FO has spent money (we couldn't sign him now even if he wanted to come). As soon as we knew those great FEs weren't coming (i.e., the primary justification for dumping KP) we should have been collecting other teams bad contracts and assets, and continue to focus on rebuild -- the hard way

Getting a bunch of mediocre players is going to take us out of the lottery. For what? to now give Randle and Portis a chance to showcase themselves instead of Mudiay and Vonleh

The moves are all desperation. They could have been worse; that doesn't make them good

You are forgetting something here. Not that easy to absorb bad contracts with picks attached when all the A list free agents have signed somewhere. Who needs to lose picks at this point? We traded contracts for picks because there was a chance of getting Durant. So far the only guy traded with a picks attached was Iggy. We should have been all over that but maybe we did our due diligence , to say that we didn't is to assume.

As for plan B we have achieved what some of the haters have wanted: remember all the posts like " cannot change the culture by losing, need to make the playoffs to attract FA, tanking is for losers"? Remember that? Well guess what, we are not tanking anymore, we gonna try to change the culture to attract FA, we are in position to sign anyone in 2 years if we want. Everyone we signed is on the upswing of their careers, except Taj. And Taj brings vet leadership and can be a mentor like DJordan was.

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:Very satisfied with the free agency results.
No malcontents, no albatross contracts, no overpaying.
Great job by FO in another step into right direction.
Respect.

95% of knicks fans disagree, we are currently the biggest laughing stock on social media, and every single sport show across the board has labeled us losers x100.

So far no Team IN the NBA has overpaid for anyone, in fact you have a few players that took less so their respected teams can add more..

Next yrs Draft class and FA class will be the worst in decades..

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

Portis was moved from Chi because they drafted Lauri and Carter and needed him to secure Porter. Wiz have Thomas Bryant and Hachimora who they are rebuilding with. They will look to spend the money they have on wing help. Lakers let Randle go just like they did Lopez and Russell. NOP let Randle go because they landed Zion.

Like I said, they're not scum but they were not considered foundational at this point by two separate teams each.

IMO they are players that are good for our current circumstance. Like all teams, we will depend on the progression of Smith & Barrett(2 lotto picks). If Smith and Barrett become high quality players then all of a sudden the combination of Smith, Barrett, Randle, Portis, and whoever steps up out of Robinson, Knox, Trier, Dotson, Frank etc. Will be closer to the level that we are trying to get to.

Maybe we are a borderline playoff now. Then next season a disgruntled star wants out. Randle with one year left putting up 20-8-3 will hold value to match salary and give production to take a further step. Or Smith and Barrett become those all star calibre players and Knicks move from borderline to 6th seed or something in 2 seasons with 60-70mil in cap again.

Young productive players with short term salaries will always hold value in this league.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

I think you are buying into the media bullsh^t. KP turned out to be a jackass plain and simple. he brother has become a notorious douchebag. I understand you are on the negative bandwagon but you act like the Knicks just did things for the hell of it. KP didn't want to be here so they shipped his diva ass out and got back assets for the future. Plus his health is a MAJOR concern. I do think D was the plan but that injury is worse to come back from than any other injury. Instad they turned t plan B which is sign 2 yea deals to players who will help but aren't "sexy names". We will continue to build our young core, keep our picks, and have flexibility for 2021. plus we could probably trade a couple of these guys and get back more assets.

I think KP totally wanted to be here but was simply fed up with losing and seeing dysfunction. I think when Phil left he probably had an open mind and was hopeful but when the head coach didn't even know he was running yet that was bad. When the team said defense and passing, that was good, but when the team actually played no D (worse than Hornacek) and ISO that was bad. we are hearing one side of the story at the moment, but i'm not at the place to give the FO the benefit of the doubt on this. I think they f'd up and continued the disillusionment. To be sure KP was immature and his brother was an ass too but we need to be honest and acknowledge the FO's failure too. Their opening day comments were they were going to make NYC a destination again. Wrong!

ANd it's idiotic to question KP's medical when he's 23 and it's a knee, but not triple-question KD and achilles at 30.

As i said before I think we dodged a bullet not signing KD or KI. My issue is if we're rebuilding we should have been grabbing bad contracts like at least Atlanta and Grizz did. We would have stayed in the lottery, and grabbed more picks. Now we'll be out of the lottery and stuck in that vicious vortex of subpar to mediocre

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:never underestimate the power of denial. We traded our star to which Dolan said, "this is gonna be a BIG YEAR IN FREE AGENCY!!!" We signed three guys that play the same position. Why didn't we just sign a SG to pair with THJ and CLee? This offseason reminds me of getting late to your fantasy draft and you find out your top three picks play the same ****ing postion

The denial about the state of the team as far as readiness to any significant moves this year is really out of charts.
Live is hard my man. Nothing is coming easy. And if is coming easy it slips away even easier.
Only hard road brings the joy of reaching the destination.

There is a middle ground. Losing KP and not replacing him with marquee talent hurt very much. How much of that was KP being a snake/diva or our FO just screwing up the relationship we may or may not know over time. Bottom line is in terms of building the team the KP trade was a big step back and the trade to clear cap space most certainly did not replace that talent. There are legit reasons to be plenty upset with how the team has been handled since the KP trade. Tank/draft was good but the talent didnt go post KP.

As for the guys we signed they 100% address the roster needs. Stop acting like we just signed Al Harrington, Othella Harrington and Clarence Weatherspoon.

Portis and Randle are 24. Both are trending upwards in their careers. Both represent chances to add cornerstone players. Either of those guys could take big steps forward in the next couple years. Look at Portis shooting #s. He was just under 40% from 3 last year. Randle is an eff% horse in the paint. Taj is pure muscle. Ellington a nice vet.

Sucks we whiffed on the big fish. So instead we signed guys with upside to short deals and left us flexible moving forward.

This also puts good pressure on Fizdale to produce.

Fish I like 99% of your posts but only half of this one. Portis and Randle are on their third teams for a reason. It's not that their scum; they're not; but they're not worth the money they just got according to the teams that knew them best. Randle has never been accused of being a high IQ guy, and his defense is suspect. I liked Portis but fear there is something up with Chicago and then Wiz deciding he wasn't a piece to build around.

If KP buys into Dallas and dominates, this current FO will go down as the worst ever. Alienated their best player (a process started by Phil); all of the supposed "charisma" in the world so we could lure Gibson, ELlington and Bullock to our empire

Portis was moved from Chi because they drafted Lauri and Carter and needed him to secure Porter. Wiz have Thomas Bryant and Hachimora who they are rebuilding with. They will look to spend the money they have on wing help. Lakers let Randle go just like they did Lopez and Russell. NOP let Randle go because they landed Zion.

Like I said, they're not scum but they were not considered foundational at this point by two separate teams each.

IMO they are players that are good for our current circumstance. Like all teams, we will depend on the progression of Smith & Barrett(2 lotto picks). If Smith and Barrett become high quality players then all of a sudden the combination of Smith, Barrett, Randle, Portis, and whoever steps up out of Robinson, Knox, Trier, Dotson, Frank etc. Will be closer to the level that we are trying to get to.

Maybe we are a borderline playoff now. Then next season a disgruntled star wants out. Randle with one year left putting up 20-8-3 will hold value to match salary and give production to take a further step. Or Smith and Barrett become those all star calibre players and Knicks move from borderline to 6th seed or something in 2 seasons with 60-70mil in cap again.

Young productive players with short term salaries will always hold value in this league.

You may be right, and I hope you are. I'd rather the Knicks succeed and I be wrong. Time will tell