martin wrote:

MooK wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:If we can't get max guys who play above max value, we should be focusing on draft alone OR WORST CASE short term deals

C'mon guys you know better. If we get some FAs to merely improve to .500 ball (which itself will be hard need +24) we'll be stuck with iffy draft picks. If we don't get to .500 then why bother with the FA and handcuffing our flexibility

We need to stay disciplined and avoid the temptation of mere improvement which really risks mediocrity.

you dont look at predicting wins and losses. You look at whether it makes sense to add guys and what that commitment will look like.
1) there should be no fear of slow progress hurting us in the draft. If we learned anything from this last draft its that tanking has huge perils. Of ALL the bottom teams we were the only ones who stayed high.

Middleton is a top 20 player, or very close. Randle could be a great short term look (2 years $40mm should get him). This is how you get better. You dont go from bad to good by staying flexible. You do it by adding talent.

I know folks differ wildly on this but people fall too in love with flexible.

Also- we...have....to...start...adding...players....who....play....defense! Nearly every player mentioned on these boards is a trash defender.

Randle is a trash defender for sure. What he is is a good scorer. High % and a decent ball mover. He's a bucket getter and a rebounder. I love him on the boards. Middleton is one of the league's top 10 defenders, top 5 if you take out the rim protectors. Middleton is a fantastic ball mover and passer. He's a guy who makes others better. He's a very high impact guy and worth making a $$$ commitment too. If he signed him it would immediately help our young guys and help them look better

so I thought about this a bit. I wouldn't be opposed to trying to develop more players but re-sing Jordan and signing Patrick Beverly. Just surround young guys by those two. Defense is really about culture and it really wouldn't be such a bad thing for anyone young and developmental to learn from guys like that. Not really a great offseason but neither of those guys would require a long term deal

I like this. Patrick Beverly would bring that fire! Teach these young dudes how to play with intensity on defense. Gimme DJ and bring Vonleh back. I like Randle but Noah gave us good defense and rebounding at a much lower price tag. His shot improved as well. I'd like to see if he can build on what he did last season...

Dont mind the idea of Beverly but one of DSJr/Frank would need to be moved and I like Kadeem Allen on the roster.

I have a feeling frank gets moved. He's never been given a fair shake IMHO because he got drafted to run the triangle and then poof

TheGame wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

TheGame wrote:Randall would be THJR all over again, i.e. Paying big money for a defensively challenged mid tier player. If we don't get KD or Leonard, then I say we only use our cap space to facilitate trades and acquire draft picks. Use this year to really see what we have in Knox, Trier, Dotson, Mitch, and Barrett

I think this is inaccurate. THJ has 1 13.5 PER for his career. Last year he was 13.6. When we signed him he was a 15.2, which is basically average.

Julius Randle has a career PER of 17.7. Last year he was a 21.0. Al Horford had a 20.2. Randle will be 25 years old. I think Randolph gets better.

I think this guy is a journeyman through no fault of his own. The Lakers jettisoned one all-star for LBJ, possibly two. The possible all star imho is getting jettisoned by a team that is gutting its roster two build around Zion. I think Julius Randle is a lot better than most are giving him credit for. Randle had 1.9 defensive win shares. By comparison, KP had DWS of 2.9, 2.1, and 1.8. Yes, injuries are a huge piece of that but Randolph is pretty available and healthy

I will give you this, Randall is a better player than Hardaway was when we signed him. I guess it really depends on how much Randall costs. If we can sign him for $15-$16 mill a year, then It would be a solid deal. If we have to pay him $23-$25 mill a year, I don't know that he is worth that much.

I think Randle has a nice chance to breakout. As SC mentioned Randle's journey has had some turns that werent really on him. Starting with the fact that he was a regarded as a top recruit and top 3 pick before he broke his leg in college. You are already getting a highly eff% bucketmaker. Maybe he is a stop gap, but at 24 everyone of his #s were trending up and if his 3 point shot gets better this guy is an all star scorer. He's also an excellent rebounder and runs like a deer.

I am pretty happy with this grab. I feel like we got one of the better young emerging players on a very team friendly deal.

fishmike wrote:Randle is very mobile. Not the best from 3... last year was the first he really added the shot but he showed promise.
Nice handle for a big
Very good rebounder
Great in the open floor
Highly athletic
Ball mover
Turns 25 next year

Will be costly... this will likely require an investment.

Is he really highly athletic?

I think he's got athleticism, and it's clearly more than we had with Kanter, but he's not really an explosive player. It's the work rate/motor he has combined with his good level of athleticism and skill with the ball that is what stands out.

He also lacks wingspan so that's why he also doesn't really rack up the blocks.

That being said, I'm down with the signing and curious to see how he does with Mitch on the floor, especially.

PresIke wrote:

fishmike wrote:Randle is very mobile. Not the best from 3... last year was the first he really added the shot but he showed promise.
Nice handle for a big
Very good rebounder
Great in the open floor
Highly athletic
Ball mover
Turns 25 next year

Will be costly... this will likely require an investment.

Is he really highly athletic?

I think he's got athleticism, and it's clearly more than we had with Kanter, but he's not really an explosive player. It's the work rate/motor he has combined with his good level of athleticism and skill with the ball that is what stands out.

He also lacks wingspan so that's why he also doesn't really rack up the blocks.

That being said, I'm down with the signing and curious to see how he does with Mitch on the floor, especially.

nyknickzingis wrote:Two bigs who can not shoot well from outside not a good plan in today's NBA

Good thing that Randle is expanding his range effectively while Robinson is still a project that has it on his agenda too.

DJ did not look great in his NY stint. Very slow for todays game and nothing outside. Randle and Portis are mobile and can shoot from 3.

Randle looks good. He played well wehn AD and Cousins were out. He has ability.

fishmike wrote:

PresIke wrote:

fishmike wrote:Randle is very mobile. Not the best from 3... last year was the first he really added the shot but he showed promise.
Nice handle for a big
Very good rebounder
Great in the open floor
Highly athletic
Ball mover
Turns 25 next year

Will be costly... this will likely require an investment.

Is he really highly athletic?

I think he's got athleticism, and it's clearly more than we had with Kanter, but he's not really an explosive player. It's the work rate/motor he has combined with his good level of athleticism and skill with the ball that is what stands out.

He also lacks wingspan so that's why he also doesn't really rack up the blocks.

That being said, I'm down with the signing and curious to see how he does with Mitch on the floor, especially.

he's absolutely highly athletic. He shows a below the rim post game because so much of that scoring comes against slower centers who cant guard him in the post. He's not unlike a young Melo in that regard. He looks to bang against someone bigger and use that little separation to get his shot off. When you dont get in front of him he will destroy you with a dunk. check out the 0:55 mark for example

Kinda looks like a very athletic ZBo. I like it.

smackeddog wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

fishmike wrote:

PresIke wrote:

fishmike wrote:Randle is very mobile. Not the best from 3... last year was the first he really added the shot but he showed promise.
Nice handle for a big
Very good rebounder
Great in the open floor
Highly athletic
Ball mover
Turns 25 next year

Will be costly... this will likely require an investment.

Is he really highly athletic?

I think he's got athleticism, and it's clearly more than we had with Kanter, but he's not really an explosive player. It's the work rate/motor he has combined with his good level of athleticism and skill with the ball that is what stands out.

He also lacks wingspan so that's why he also doesn't really rack up the blocks.

That being said, I'm down with the signing and curious to see how he does with Mitch on the floor, especially.

he's absolutely highly athletic. He shows a below the rim post game because so much of that scoring comes against slower centers who cant guard him in the post. He's not unlike a young Melo in that regard. He looks to bang against someone bigger and use that little separation to get his shot off. When you dont get in front of him he will destroy you with a dunk. check out the 0:55 mark for example

Kinda looks like a very athletic ZBo. I like it.

That's who he reminds me of- I used to like Zach a lot, but I'm not sure if a Zach-style player can prosper in todays NBA. I'll be rooting for him though, I do like his game on the offensive end (I do like that old-school play down low- reminds me of LJ with the spin moves too), even though his lack of d is a big worry (especially next to Knox, RJ and DSJ )

That's why you need to start Mitchell Robinson and Frank. MRob protecting the rim and Frank hounding the ball will do wonders for team defense.

Oddly, much has been made about Randle having short arms. He measured at 6'9" in shoes with a 7' wingspan at the 2014 pre-draft combine. He's no KP, but he's also no T-rex. He has a 35.5" vertical leap. Like Zion he's a bit of a wide body guy, a little of Z Bo and perhaps Anthony Mason.

Zion's measurements listed on the internet are 6'7" height and 6'10" wingspan plus a 40" vertical. Of course, he didn't go through the combine measurement process so who knows how much of that is accurate.

Interestingly, when you look at his work with the Pelicans last season, you often get a glimpse of a two man game with Elfrid. We should see a more fluid offense this year with RJ/Randle as the focal points compared with last year's THJr/Kanter combo.