fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'd rather have a better shooter at the PF spot, especially if Mitch isn't able to develop one.

Also- do you still want Randle if we end up signing KD, or is he a fallback option?

total fall back. Assume we whiff on KD/Kawhi/etc... We need to REALLY upgrade the talent level of this roster. Not sure I see the upside of 1 year deals and I dont think another tank season where we take contracts for assets is feasible either.

With Mitch, 3rd pick, $75mm in cap space and some OK young players I think you need to have some kind of core moving forward next year.
Russell and Randle represent a lot of firepower coming on the roster at age 23/25.

See I'd rather use the space to see if you can land Kelly Olynyk (2yrs 13mil per) and Dragic ($19mil expiring) along with a 1st or two and Whiteside ($27mil), I'd rather kind of suck next season (aim for 30wins), but have useful vets to help install a culture on the young guys to aid their development. The key is to land a high pick next year and hope RJ is better than advertised (and Knox, Mitch and DSj take a step forward)- think signing Randle (or D-Lo) is a bit of a red herring, but I get the arguments for it

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'd rather have a better shooter at the PF spot, especially if Mitch isn't able to develop one.

Also- do you still want Randle if we end up signing KD, or is he a fallback option?

total fall back. Assume we whiff on KD/Kawhi/etc... We need to REALLY upgrade the talent level of this roster. Not sure I see the upside of 1 year deals and I dont think another tank season where we take contracts for assets is feasible either.

With Mitch, 3rd pick, $75mm in cap space and some OK young players I think you need to have some kind of core moving forward next year.
Russell and Randle represent a lot of firepower coming on the roster at age 23/25.

See I'd rather use the space to see if you can land Kelly Olynyk (2yrs 13mil per) and Dragic ($19mil expiring) along with a 1st or two and Whiteside ($27mil), I'd rather kind of suck next season (aim for 30wins), but have useful vets to help install a culture on the young guys to aid their development. The key is to land a high pick next year and hope RJ is better than advertised (and Knox, Mitch and DSj take a step forward)- think signing Randle (or D-Lo) is a bit of a red herring, but I get the arguments for it

I'm more in this camp

Get's back to the issue of cap/value and you need bargains to have more talent for the same money

You can get that with max contract guys who are better than their max contract or via drafting

Getting sub max FAs -- you are probably paying market rate (not bargain) OR OVERPAYING

I'm just as tired of the losing as the next guy, but we should not be getting sub-max guys (if we were one piece away and plugging a hole, i'd feel differently)

I play basketball in a league every Sunday with one of Julius Randles boys from high school in Dallas. He just got back from a week vacation with him and apparently the Knicks told him KD is there if he opts out of Warriors contract. If Knicks can’t get any other big names they are signing Julius to a reasonable close to Max deal for 1-2 years. Coming of a 21.4 PPG season I don’t mind it. Obviously want Kyrie/Kemba but Julius is a young high ceiling prospect!
Thoughts?

Marv wrote:

Chandler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'd rather have a better shooter at the PF spot, especially if Mitch isn't able to develop one.

Also- do you still want Randle if we end up signing KD, or is he a fallback option?

total fall back. Assume we whiff on KD/Kawhi/etc... We need to REALLY upgrade the talent level of this roster. Not sure I see the upside of 1 year deals and I dont think another tank season where we take contracts for assets is feasible either.

With Mitch, 3rd pick, $75mm in cap space and some OK young players I think you need to have some kind of core moving forward next year.
Russell and Randle represent a lot of firepower coming on the roster at age 23/25.

See I'd rather use the space to see if you can land Kelly Olynyk (2yrs 13mil per) and Dragic ($19mil expiring) along with a 1st or two and Whiteside ($27mil), I'd rather kind of suck next season (aim for 30wins), but have useful vets to help install a culture on the young guys to aid their development. The key is to land a high pick next year and hope RJ is better than advertised (and Knox, Mitch and DSj take a step forward)- think signing Randle (or D-Lo) is a bit of a red herring, but I get the arguments for it

I'm more in this camp

Get's back to the issue of cap/value and you need bargains to have more talent for the same money

You can get that with max contract guys who are better than their max contract or via drafting

Getting sub max FAs -- you are probably paying market rate (not bargain) OR OVERPAYING

I'm just as tired of the losing as the next guy, but we should not be getting sub-max guys (if we were one piece away and plugging a hole, i'd feel differently)

it's a good argument but i'm coming down on the other side of it. there's a lot of fa's this year that are young and have already figured out how to play in the nba (randle, russell, middleton, brogdon, harris). they're playing efficient good basketball - what we're hoping our youngs will be able to reach . we got a shot at them without losing players/picks. we continue to develop and assess our young guys. we got a chance to build a culture, develop assets for other moves and find the right chemistry among them. i see that as a no-lose proposition when i look at our other options.

Knicks are a super young team. If you come away locking up DRussell and Randle for the next 4 years you really helped yourself. Barring injury both of them should retain value, and the Knicks max isnt the crazy #s for some of the others because of their age. Those guys are already good NBA players at 23/25. You have a chance to get them to another level while developing a long term chemistry.

I would be happy with an offseason we added RJ/Russell/Randle and gave up nothing.

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Why not just stick with Kornet and MR. Kornet is able to spread the floor and plays well defensively. MR and Kornet compliment each other well.

because Kornet sucks and is a bench role player and has shown nothing the says he's an NBA starter. That being said I love him and hope he's back but lets be realistic about his role

Randle is gonna get you to the promise land I’ll start fitting everyone for a championship ring. Your the epitome of desperation. Kornet brings as much to the table as Randle. By the way what does randle bring that Vonleh can’t. Come on man the grass isn’t greener with this one. Costly player who will do nothing but make the situation worse.

You can certainly argue that Randle would be THjr 2.0.

But to compare him to Kornet is a bit absurd.

The difference with Randle vs THjr is we don't have as much dead weight with C Lee and Noah. He's young and took a big step last year. He's a big, and you need size.

I certainly don't want to spend all my money this year and take myself out of future FA markets.

smackeddog wrote:Ha, I should know better than to trust reddit forums but some poster said this on the knicks board:

I play basketball in a league every Sunday with one of Julius Randles boys from high school in Dallas. He just got back from a week vacation with him and apparently the Knicks told him KD is there if he opts out of Warriors contract. If Knicks can’t get any other big names they are signing Julius to a reasonable close to Max deal for 1-2 years. Coming of a 21.4 PPG season I don’t mind it. Obviously want Kyrie/Kemba but Julius is a young high ceiling prospect!
Thoughts?

I could live with a one to 2 year deal. I don't think his ceiling is that high. Maybe his three improves? But a move like that would help improve the roster while giving us some flexibility.

franco12 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:Why not just stick with Kornet and MR. Kornet is able to spread the floor and plays well defensively. MR and Kornet compliment each other well.

because Kornet sucks and is a bench role player and has shown nothing the says he's an NBA starter. That being said I love him and hope he's back but lets be realistic about his role

Randle is gonna get you to the promise land I’ll start fitting everyone for a championship ring. Your the epitome of desperation. Kornet brings as much to the table as Randle. By the way what does randle bring that Vonleh can’t. Come on man the grass isn’t greener with this one. Costly player who will do nothing but make the situation worse.

You can certainly argue that Randle would be THjr 2.0.

But to compare him to Kornet is a bit absurd.

The difference with Randle vs THjr is we don't have as much dead weight with C Lee and Noah. He's young and took a big step last year. He's a big, and you need size.

I certainly don't want to spend all my money this year and take myself out of future FA markets.

Randle was a top 5 loto pick in his draft. Is more proven than Thjr was when he signed. Thjr was a protipical gunner SG. Randle is a unique PF/C who can handle, shoot, create. With quickness, high motor, and attitude. But I do agree with in terms of price and role. Signing him to be the Knicks franchise player and signing him at a price range that values him as that would be a mistake.

Signing him at a quality price range with the expectations that he fits our timeline, and will be a cog that they can move forward with would be the way to go. As Triplethreat would say, good market based decison.

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:

Chandler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

fishmike wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I'd rather have a better shooter at the PF spot, especially if Mitch isn't able to develop one.

Also- do you still want Randle if we end up signing KD, or is he a fallback option?

total fall back. Assume we whiff on KD/Kawhi/etc... We need to REALLY upgrade the talent level of this roster. Not sure I see the upside of 1 year deals and I dont think another tank season where we take contracts for assets is feasible either.

With Mitch, 3rd pick, $75mm in cap space and some OK young players I think you need to have some kind of core moving forward next year.
Russell and Randle represent a lot of firepower coming on the roster at age 23/25.

See I'd rather use the space to see if you can land Kelly Olynyk (2yrs 13mil per) and Dragic ($19mil expiring) along with a 1st or two and Whiteside ($27mil), I'd rather kind of suck next season (aim for 30wins), but have useful vets to help install a culture on the young guys to aid their development. The key is to land a high pick next year and hope RJ is better than advertised (and Knox, Mitch and DSj take a step forward)- think signing Randle (or D-Lo) is a bit of a red herring, but I get the arguments for it

I'm more in this camp

Get's back to the issue of cap/value and you need bargains to have more talent for the same money

You can get that with max contract guys who are better than their max contract or via drafting

Getting sub max FAs -- you are probably paying market rate (not bargain) OR OVERPAYING

I'm just as tired of the losing as the next guy, but we should not be getting sub-max guys (if we were one piece away and plugging a hole, i'd feel differently)

it's a good argument but i'm coming down on the other side of it. there's a lot of fa's this year that are young and have already figured out how to play in the nba (randle, russell, middleton, brogdon, harris). they're playing efficient good basketball - what we're hoping our youngs will be able to reach . we got a shot at them without losing players/picks. we continue to develop and assess our young guys. we got a chance to build a culture, develop assets for other moves and find the right chemistry among them. i see that as a no-lose proposition when i look at our other options.

We took a huge step back in losing KP. That was a foundation player. So we have cap space now. I think priority #1 is using that cap space to greatly increase the talent on the roster which is pretty low or unproven. Love the tier 1 guys. 2 are already out for next year. Some of the tier 2 guys are very good and we saw some perform well in the post season as well.

Knicks are a super young team. If you come away locking up DRussell and Randle for the next 4 years you really helped yourself. Barring injury both of them should retain value, and the Knicks max isnt the crazy #s for some of the others because of their age. Those guys are already good NBA players at 23/25. You have a chance to get them to another level while developing a long term chemistry.

I would be happy with an offseason we added RJ/Russell/Randle and gave up nothing.

No doubt we would improve. but are we talking improve and no championship, or putting a team together to win the whole thing

My default rule for FA is only max guys who play above max value, or if your championship caliber already and need some ad hoc filler

I suspect I could be talking into a sub max player if we trusted the FO and CS to identify that under-utilized gem who just needed the right context to improve his value . Personally not sure if Randall is that -- no disrespect to him. But we need bargains when you're in a capped system