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Anthony Davis decision highlights Knicks’ grim reality
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knicks1248
Posts: 39028
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6/17/2019  10:30 AM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knicks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

5 straight lottery season(with mills as GM/prez) and your talking about we shouldn't seek instant gratification...

They has been zero progress under MILs I mean absolutely none..other a few extra draft picks.

The knicks FO started out saying the are in the talent acquisition faze, but all they have managae is a couple of tunnel vision players in Trier and Knox, a deer in headlights in frank, a defensive Center, who took all of 2 jump shots the entire season, and a couple of role players in Dotson and luke.

Barely any of their talent can fetch them an aLL STAR.

If Dolan was a smart man, he would have HIRED Griffin, who more than likely would have hired Mike Budenholzer .. Mills seem like it was more important to have a black prez/GM/Coach..instead of hiring a more proven experience coach and GM.

This dude watched in experience Fisher and JH crumble in NY as head coaches, and runs out and hires a similar candidate..smh..all 3 of these guys should be assistants on a coaching staff

ES
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StarksEwing1
Posts: 31855
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6/17/2019  10:47 AM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knocks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

Actually from what ive seen on here most fans are pretty relieved the Knicks passed on Davis and felt we did the right thing( we did).
arkrud
Posts: 31810
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6/17/2019  11:08 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/17/2019  11:11 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knicks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

5 straight lottery season(with mills as GM/prez) and your talking about we shouldn't seek instant gratification...

They has been zero progress under MILs I mean absolutely none..other a few extra draft picks.

The knicks FO started out saying the are in the talent acquisition faze, but all they have managae is a couple of tunnel vision players in Trier and Knox, a deer in headlights in frank, a defensive Center, who took all of 2 jump shots the entire season, and a couple of role players in Dotson and luke.

Barely any of their talent can fetch them an aLL STAR.

If Dolan was a smart man, he would have HIRED Griffin, who more than likely would have hired Mike Budenholzer .. Mills seem like it was more important to have a black prez/GM/Coach..instead of hiring a more proven experience coach and GM.

This dude watched in experience Fisher and JH crumble in NY as head coaches, and runs out and hires a similar candidate..smh..all 3 of these guys should be assistants on a coaching staff

5 years???
My observations of rush-rush MSG business started in 1998.
Since then it was nothing but bad tactical decisions which all misfired from little to badly.
I do not care who Mils was and what Jackson did. Its all dust of the past. Forgotten.
I only look at what is done now in the framework of new strategy started with Jackson and Melo gone.
So far I can see no deviation.
2 years is nothing for building NBA team from below ground zero.
I will start complaining in 3-5 years and this is still not patient enough.
For now the only things I am looking for strategy of collecting assets, developing young players and making smart marginal moves to support this strategy.
If the right setup for getting super-star player in FA will present itself this should be done. This called - get lucky.
As this kind of possibilities are rare. This year chips never land right. So we should pass and continue grinding.
Baby steps.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
Posts: 31810
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6/17/2019  11:09 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knocks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

Actually from what ive seen on here most fans are pretty relieved the Knicks passed on Davis and felt we did the right thing( we did).

UK is for the most part the collection of savvy and knowledgeable NY Knicks fans.
So this is not surprising.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
StarksEwing1
Posts: 31855
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Joined: 12/28/2012
Member: #4451

6/17/2019  11:16 AM
arkrud wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knocks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

Actually from what ive seen on here most fans are pretty relieved the Knicks passed on Davis and felt we did the right thing( we did).

UK is for the most part the collection of savvy and knowledgeable NY Knicks fans.
So this is not surprising.

Very true
Nalod
Posts: 58103
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Member: #508
USA
6/17/2019  12:08 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:We were right to not trade for AD- can you imagine going into the season with just AD, watching him walk in the off-season then having the pelicans control all our unprotected firsts for the next 7 years?!

They wanted 3 picks, including this yrs pick plus next yrs dallas pick (which will not be a lottery one with KP and Doncic)

Take a look at our last 5 1st round picks Knox, Frank, KP, THJ, shumpert, only 2 are still on the roster, and Frank has one foot out the door. The knicks have done nothing with their draft picks for you to be so concern with losing them for a TOP 5 proven NBA player


When was the last time the knicks had a NBA top 5 player.

Who's the face of the knicks franchise right now..DSJ, Mitch? lol

Shump was not lottery. Nor was THJ. You forgot Mitch, Trier (FA rookie), and the over reach that was David lee (Allstar), and Landry Fields, who got hurt but still outperformed his draft position.

Even with those oversights, your forgetting we are drafting higher blue chip prospects that are very young. Channing Frye was 22 and was more of a final product player. You forgot Trevor Aliza who we prematurely traded. You also forgot the price Eddy Curry cost us. Lamarcus Aldridge is still pounding away. In prime Noah was a good pick for the Bulls!!! Imagine a from line up for 5-7 years of Reezy, Aldridge and Noah as a core to draft and trade around?

Just because knicks did not succeed in developing under a different mindset does not mean you continue the very things that got you in trouble.

who's to say we would have drafted noah or Marcus, we took frank over DSJ and Mitchel.

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..

It's NOT all because of The FO and coach (why the knicks suck at it) a big part is there is just too many distractions IN NYC, TOO much Press, FOR YOUNG PLAYERS..EVERY EXPERIENCE gm/pres knows this..Walsh, Grunwald, IT, Ernie, even phil.

Mills is trying to reinvent the wheel with this young boy sht resulting in 17 wins

The knicks REGIME don't surround their young players with winners, all stars and veterans, they put other young clueless players around them, and tell them don't worry about winning..Why you think the vets(THJ, Lee, Kanter, lance) were turned off by Triers style of play (losing basketball)

Too many fans like knicks1248... The biggest Knicks problem.
And many of them are very influential and vocal (in the owner ear).
Pressure to satisfy instant gratification to much the overpriced Garden tickets and over-sized New-Yonkers ego is huge.
Hopefully the new FO is up to task to shrug all this aside and finally do a right thing over extended period of time.

5 straight lottery season(with mills as GM/prez) and your talking about we shouldn't seek instant gratification...

They has been zero progress under MILs I mean absolutely none..other a few extra draft picks.

The knicks FO started out saying the are in the talent acquisition faze, but all they have managae is a couple of tunnel vision players in Trier and Knox, a deer in headlights in frank, a defensive Center, who took all of 2 jump shots the entire season, and a couple of role players in Dotson and luke.

Barely any of their talent can fetch them an aLL STAR.

If Dolan was a smart man, he would have HIRED Griffin, who more than likely would have hired Mike Budenholzer .. Mills seem like it was more important to have a black prez/GM/Coach..instead of hiring a more proven experience coach and GM.

This dude watched in experience Fisher and JH crumble in NY as head coaches, and runs out and hires a similar candidate..smh..all 3 of these guys should be assistants on a coaching staff

You think Griffin would have done what instead??
Coach Bud would have won how many games?
What roster do you think either would have wanted?
If dolan was a smart man? Like you? With hindsight and lazy open concepts that "Things would have been better"?
You say "we failed to land AD". Some of us think we should not have even tried.
Few if any of us are happy with losing, but we are happy we did not mortgage the future to improve short term embarrassment. In fact things are so different with this team and its make up its nearly foolish to over look the potential. But you manage to find a way.

Can't erase history, but a quick study to determine we are not repeating the decision process of the past.

Trolling Facts.........
TripleThreat
Posts: 22331
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6/17/2019  1:48 PM
knicks1248 wrote:

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..


There is very little actual "development" in the NBA. Some talk about it because it's an easier way to not have to discuss actual team building to the general public, much of whom have no clue about actual pro sports resource management ( Much like you)

You draft a guy, you hope he pans out. Sometimes he does, most time he does not. If he does not, he wouldn't for all of the NBA. That's it.

Things that help young players - Better competition/Building a rapport with the refs/Learning the grind and lifestyle of the brutal regular season schedule/growing into their bodies and frames more/Getting real time film work and scouting and game time against guys they will see all the time.

One of the reasons Jayson Tatum shifted over so quickly as a pro is because much of his earlier training was against NBA caliber competition and NBA players. This is the same reason many companies like to hire people already in their system. They are known quantities and those people already know the culture in place.

The Knicks do not lower the players value after drafted. The guy usually just doesn't pan out ( Most draftees don't) and they have to move on, most franchises have to deal with this.

For basketball prospects, where landing spots matter is the most critical from the high school to college stage. At this point, you do need to take real care in picking a place that has room for you but also has a system in place that will play to your strengths. At the NBA level, it's much different. At the NBA level, you have multiple years as a first round pick. At the college level, you can be One And Done.

The Knicks like most teams, NEED TO PICK BETTER. Development however is just a buzzword that means mostly nothing. But all teams struggle at picking better. That being said, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE? There is none.

You are, however, correct in that if the Knicks could get a Top 3 player, you do it, cost be damned.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
knicks1248
Posts: 39028
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Member: #582
6/17/2019  3:07 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..


There is very little actual "development" in the NBA. Some talk about it because it's an easier way to not have to discuss actual team building to the general public, much of whom have no clue about actual pro sports resource management ( Much like you)

You draft a guy, you hope he pans out. Sometimes he does, most time he does not. If he does not, he wouldn't for all of the NBA. That's it.

Things that help young players - Better competition/Building a rapport with the refs/Learning the grind and lifestyle of the brutal regular season schedule/growing into their bodies and frames more/Getting real time film work and scouting and game time against guys they will see all the time.

One of the reasons Jayson Tatum shifted over so quickly as a pro is because much of his earlier training was against NBA caliber competition and NBA players. This is the same reason many companies like to hire people already in their system. They are known quantities and those people already know the culture in place.

The Knicks do not lower the players value after drafted. The guy usually just doesn't pan out ( Most draftees don't) and they have to move on, most franchises have to deal with this.

For basketball prospects, where landing spots matter is the most critical from the high school to college stage. At this point, you do need to take real care in picking a place that has room for you but also has a system in place that will play to your strengths. At the NBA level, it's much different. At the NBA level, you have multiple years as a first round pick. At the college level, you can be One And Done.

The Knicks like most teams, NEED TO PICK BETTER. Development however is just a buzzword that means mostly nothing. But all teams struggle at picking better. That being said, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE? There is none.

You are, however, correct in that if the Knicks could get a Top 3 player, you do it, cost be damned.

Having the right coach, having the right system, having the right veterans, having the right mentor, and putting the player in the right role is how you develop a player..we do the complete opposite on every front.

we have a president that has never came close to building a roster period..no experience whats so ever

we have a coach that has a 1yr and half experience and has no system to even know what kind of a player fits.

We have a GM that has been part of some failing rebuilds

we have players that only care about their own #s

And you see the results.

ES
nyknickzingis
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6/17/2019  10:12 PM
Assets would have looked better had they offered Porzingis, Knox, Frank, #3 and another draft pick.
Instead they sent Porzingis packing for capspace and DSJ.
arkrud
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6/17/2019  10:25 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..


There is very little actual "development" in the NBA. Some talk about it because it's an easier way to not have to discuss actual team building to the general public, much of whom have no clue about actual pro sports resource management ( Much like you)

You draft a guy, you hope he pans out. Sometimes he does, most time he does not. If he does not, he wouldn't for all of the NBA. That's it.

Things that help young players - Better competition/Building a rapport with the refs/Learning the grind and lifestyle of the brutal regular season schedule/growing into their bodies and frames more/Getting real time film work and scouting and game time against guys they will see all the time.

One of the reasons Jayson Tatum shifted over so quickly as a pro is because much of his earlier training was against NBA caliber competition and NBA players. This is the same reason many companies like to hire people already in their system. They are known quantities and those people already know the culture in place.

The Knicks do not lower the players value after drafted. The guy usually just doesn't pan out ( Most draftees don't) and they have to move on, most franchises have to deal with this.

For basketball prospects, where landing spots matter is the most critical from the high school to college stage. At this point, you do need to take real care in picking a place that has room for you but also has a system in place that will play to your strengths. At the NBA level, it's much different. At the NBA level, you have multiple years as a first round pick. At the college level, you can be One And Done.

The Knicks like most teams, NEED TO PICK BETTER. Development however is just a buzzword that means mostly nothing. But all teams struggle at picking better. That being said, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE? There is none.

You are, however, correct in that if the Knicks could get a Top 3 player, you do it, cost be damned.

Having the right coach, having the right system, having the right veterans, having the right mentor, and putting the player in the right role is how you develop a player..we do the complete opposite on every front.

we have a president that has never came close to building a roster period..no experience whats so ever

we have a coach that has a 1yr and half experience and has no system to even know what kind of a player fits.

We have a GM that has been part of some failing rebuilds

we have players that only care about their own #s

And you see the results.

Lets say you right.
So how get from this to whatever Pres, GM, Coach, Players you want?
I guess the only way is to switch the team you root for.
Quick and easy... And a variety of choices.
So what the hold?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
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6/17/2019  10:47 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:Assets would have looked better had they offered Porzingis, Knox, Frank, #3 and another draft pick.
Instead they sent Porzingis packing for capspace and DSJ.
And two first round picks including an unprotected pick. If you have a guy saying he is going back to Europe to rehab if he isn’t traded, will only sign his qualifying offer if you don’t trade him, he gives you a list of teams he wants to be traded to, you know he is going to be accused of rape and you are pretty sure you can sign two stars if you have cap space you make that deal. KD’s injury changes things. Look at what the Nets gave up to get off one year of Crabbe’s deal. Tim had two years on his deal and the Knicks would need to trade Lee as well.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
StarksEwing1
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6/18/2019  1:03 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Assets would have looked better had they offered Porzingis, Knox, Frank, #3 and another draft pick.
Instead they sent Porzingis packing for capspace and DSJ.
They did offer KP...they werent interested. Also the knicks got back 2 firsts
Nalod
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6/18/2019  8:05 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..


There is very little actual "development" in the NBA. Some talk about it because it's an easier way to not have to discuss actual team building to the general public, much of whom have no clue about actual pro sports resource management ( Much like you)

You draft a guy, you hope he pans out. Sometimes he does, most time he does not. If he does not, he wouldn't for all of the NBA. That's it.

Things that help young players - Better competition/Building a rapport with the refs/Learning the grind and lifestyle of the brutal regular season schedule/growing into their bodies and frames more/Getting real time film work and scouting and game time against guys they will see all the time.

One of the reasons Jayson Tatum shifted over so quickly as a pro is because much of his earlier training was against NBA caliber competition and NBA players. This is the same reason many companies like to hire people already in their system. They are known quantities and those people already know the culture in place.

The Knicks do not lower the players value after drafted. The guy usually just doesn't pan out ( Most draftees don't) and they have to move on, most franchises have to deal with this.

For basketball prospects, where landing spots matter is the most critical from the high school to college stage. At this point, you do need to take real care in picking a place that has room for you but also has a system in place that will play to your strengths. At the NBA level, it's much different. At the NBA level, you have multiple years as a first round pick. At the college level, you can be One And Done.

The Knicks like most teams, NEED TO PICK BETTER. Development however is just a buzzword that means mostly nothing. But all teams struggle at picking better. That being said, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE? There is none.

You are, however, correct in that if the Knicks could get a Top 3 player, you do it, cost be damned.

Having the right coach, having the right system, having the right veterans, having the right mentor, and putting the player in the right role is how you develop a player..we do the complete opposite on every front.

we have a president that has never came close to building a roster period..no experience whats so ever

we have a coach that has a 1yr and half experience and has no system to even know what kind of a player fits.

We have a GM that has been part of some failing rebuilds

we have players that only care about their own #s

And you see the results.

Fire the GM after one year?
Fire the coach after one year?

Wait, all they have to do is have the “right ones”? “Right system, Right veterans, right mentor and another retread exec, coach, or what ever”. We had a slew of HOF coaches here, Even had Donnie who had that “Experience”.

And it did not work for a many reasons. WHy the hell does 1248 not understand the past and still offer open concept lazy ass ideas? OK, just get the “Right” guys? Brilliant!

Trolling Facts.........
Chandler
Posts: 23478
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6/18/2019  8:18 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:

The knicks suck at developing, stop making excuses, plus they wind up trading their draft picks(after lowering their value) a few short yrs after they draft them anyway, NOT ONE HAS RESIGN AFTER THEIR ROOKIE CONTRACT..That has not happen since CHARLIE WARD..


There is very little actual "development" in the NBA. Some talk about it because it's an easier way to not have to discuss actual team building to the general public, much of whom have no clue about actual pro sports resource management ( Much like you)

You draft a guy, you hope he pans out. Sometimes he does, most time he does not. If he does not, he wouldn't for all of the NBA. That's it.

Things that help young players - Better competition/Building a rapport with the refs/Learning the grind and lifestyle of the brutal regular season schedule/growing into their bodies and frames more/Getting real time film work and scouting and game time against guys they will see all the time.

One of the reasons Jayson Tatum shifted over so quickly as a pro is because much of his earlier training was against NBA caliber competition and NBA players. This is the same reason many companies like to hire people already in their system. They are known quantities and those people already know the culture in place.

The Knicks do not lower the players value after drafted. The guy usually just doesn't pan out ( Most draftees don't) and they have to move on, most franchises have to deal with this.

For basketball prospects, where landing spots matter is the most critical from the high school to college stage. At this point, you do need to take real care in picking a place that has room for you but also has a system in place that will play to your strengths. At the NBA level, it's much different. At the NBA level, you have multiple years as a first round pick. At the college level, you can be One And Done.

The Knicks like most teams, NEED TO PICK BETTER. Development however is just a buzzword that means mostly nothing. But all teams struggle at picking better. That being said, WHAT OTHER CHOICE IS THERE? There is none.

You are, however, correct in that if the Knicks could get a Top 3 player, you do it, cost be damned.

I agree a lot w this. I do think better organizations are committed to development but the first step is better drafting. I have heard it said many things times by GMs and presidents of winning organizations that they want players who truly hate to lose. I think that’s super smart. Of course everyone prefers to win but those guys who really hate to lose are the one who commit to their own development and of course the team needs to meet that

This was one of things I used to hate about melo. Knicks would get their ass kicked and melo would either be all smiles trying to show he was friends w the other teams best players and poor melo was the victim/ hostage of a bad team. Or he would be sing woo is me. Rarely did u see the anger

We should be drafting guys w insecurities who are propelled to constantly improve themselves

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year. Martin was right; I was wrong. :-(
Nalod
Posts: 58103
Alba Posts: 151
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Member: #508
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6/18/2019  10:08 AM
How do you "draft Better"?

Have we not been Doing "OK"? Not 100% because nobody does. How do you "make it right"?
Revamp coaches?
Hire a Craig Robinson to oversee player development? Commit to a Gleague team (all teams are doing this),
What about increasing the frequency to draft? Isn't that most important thing? Have more picks? While we can clamor for trades and toss picks around like they are grapes, you want to "draft better", then also "Draft more"!!!!
Is that not more apparent in the last few years? Phil came in and had one pick in three years. There is a prolonged effect. We are just moving past that. To insinuate we should fire guys while injecting the above after one year is kind of silly.
I can't tell you knicks will "Draft better" or have the "right whatever" but a process of decision making seems to be in place that promotes these things. Draft well and the trades will come. You need assets teams want. We not there yet.
If you want hindsight perfection, the funny thing is Lakers were correct to take Russell, and PHil was correct to want to trade him.
Ironic!!!

Trolling Facts.........
Anthony Davis decision highlights Knicks’ grim reality

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