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Free Agency 2019 (6/30 6pm ET)
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smackeddog
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6/13/2019  11:53 AM
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

AUTOADVERT
smackeddog
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6/13/2019  12:28 PM

Free agency is pretty much over before it began. So looking very likely:

Kemba: Hornets
Kyrie: Nets
Butler: Nets/Lakers/Sixers
Harris: Nets/Sixers
KD: Knicks/Nets
Klay: Warriors
Kawhi: ????????

Chandler
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6/13/2019  12:35 PM
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

I agree with this. RIsk reward is way out of whack

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ekstarks94
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6/13/2019  12:50 PM
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

I agree with this. RIsk reward is way out of whack


I hear everything you are saying...but who is coming out as FA the next 5 years....majority of players do not make it to "true" free agency for 9-10 years after being drafted....

We can build with the kids and roll the dice on KD. With McDyess all we had was him and no real promising youth...

If you save up your chips who are you targeting in the next 5 years...are you overpaying...poison pilling another teams player on a rookie deal...alah Tim Hardaway....

I am not saying this a signular move...but a calculated risk.....any other players aside from KD and Kawhi...I would not do it...for them I would conisder

smackeddog
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6/13/2019  1:07 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/13/2019  1:09 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

I agree with this. RIsk reward is way out of whack


I hear everything you are saying...but who is coming out as FA the next 5 years....majority of players do not make it to "true" free agency for 9-10 years after being drafted....

We can build with the kids and roll the dice on KD. With McDyess all we had was him and no real promising youth...

If you save up your chips who are you targeting in the next 5 years...are you overpaying...poison pilling another teams player on a rookie deal...alah Tim Hardaway....

I am not saying this a signular move...but a calculated risk.....any other players aside from KD and Kawhi...I would not do it...for them I would conisder

I'm ready to give up on the world of max free agency. Under this CBA you use free agency to add role players, you use the draft to add franchise changing talent. You use cap space to take on contracts for picks to help you draft role players and good supporting players. You can also use this cap space/ role players and picks to trade for superstars when they become available.

This years free agency was a once in a blue moon/exception free agency, where so many stars were on the move and it looked like some of them wanted to come to NY. Of course we were right to take a chance on that, but it's very rare (2010 was the last one), so shouldn't be our strategy going forward.

Signing KD would be a mistake, but at the end of the day I agree that we're not landing any max free agents, so it's not the end of the world. Priority going forward is draft picks and lottery position and player development- that's what will determine our future.

ekstarks94
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6/13/2019  1:14 PM
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

I agree with this. RIsk reward is way out of whack


I hear everything you are saying...but who is coming out as FA the next 5 years....majority of players do not make it to "true" free agency for 9-10 years after being drafted....

We can build with the kids and roll the dice on KD. With McDyess all we had was him and no real promising youth...

If you save up your chips who are you targeting in the next 5 years...are you overpaying...poison pilling another teams player on a rookie deal...alah Tim Hardaway....

I am not saying this a signular move...but a calculated risk.....any other players aside from KD and Kawhi...I would not do it...for them I would conisder

I'm ready to give up on the world of max free agency. Under this CBA you use free agency to add role players, you use the draft to add franchise changing talent. You use cap space to take on contracts for picks to help you draft role players and good supporting players. You can also use this cap space/ role players and picks to trade for superstars when they become available.

This years free agency was a once in a blue moon/exception free agency, where so many stars were on the move and it looked like some of them wanted to come to NY. Of course we were right to take a chance on that, but it's very rare (2010 was the last one), so shouldn't be our strategy going forward.

Signing KD would be a mistake, but at the end of the day I agree that we're not landing any max free agents, so it's not the end of the world. Priority going forward is draft picks and lottery position and player development- that's what will determine our future.

I hear you saying rolling with the draft....but that is literally playing the lottery again...after you have won the lottery....not everyone pans out...look at Philly...not now...6 years ago....I personally cannot stomach 4 seasons of 17 wins choosing lottery talent and seasoning them...particularly with these lottery odds...

All I am saying is why you cannot do both? KD and youth....

If we could get Kawhi I would say him...but he is not coming here...

Chandler
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6/13/2019  2:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/13/2019  2:32 PM
We have a cap, so the key to success is value. there are a lot of good players who are FAs but that doesn't mean they're good values.

Two areas of bargains are drafting (rookies who outplay their contract) and Super star FAs (who have their own max contract capping their salary and if they're better than thet they're a bargain as weird as that sounds when a guy is making 30 million). IMO a healthy KD could qualify; a younger and healthy KD would certainly qualify. At the moment KD risk/reward is horrible. We have to hope (let's be honest about that) he has a full recovery and then we still have the serious concern of an aging superstar (which we now have Exhibit A being rubbed in our face). We have been burned by this so many times.


FA may be a tool to fill holes in a roster but you can't really expect a bargain (except for the superstar case)Instead you're probably paying close to precisely what they're worth which is not a competitive advantage in a cap based system

We should be focusing on guys entering their prime not leaving it. Kawhi is my choice

Our team is horrible at the moment, if we can't get guys in their mid 20s or a bit older we should consider using our cap space to collect more trash from a team looking to dump a mistake, in exchange for picks. ATM our strategy seems to be to collect other team's trash, give those players opportunities, and get absolutely nothing in return: no picks, no team options in case the guy revitalizes his game (see, e.g., Mario, Mudiay, etc.). We're a bunch of dummies.

If we had an excellent team, I might feel differently about KD bringing us over the top. but we stink. think about it. do you think through FAs we're going to add 43 wins to get to 60!

Also we should keep in mind that the system is rigged against sucky teams like the Knicks. Good players want to go to good teams. You need to pay them more to go to a **** show and hope that they're greedy enough to chase the money. Sucky teams have to take risks on players (e.g., convince themselves a player will bounce back --see Noah) or overpay to get them to come here. On top of that if you make a mistake (e.g., Noah) you can't simply pay the guy and restart. That bad salary will poison your cap. (Football has a better solution -- just use guaranteed money to compensate the stars but if they turn out to be bums teams can cut them and not have it poison their cap)

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GustavBahler
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6/13/2019  6:08 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hornets-walker-willing-sign-below-181117452.html


Charlotte Hornets point guard Kemba Walker said Thursday that to stay with the team long term, he is willing to sign for less than the supermax contract terms he earned by being on an All-NBA team in 2019.

The 2017 collective bargaining agreement projects that Walker's supermax contract would be worth five years and $221 million. The maximum Walker could make by signing with another team is four years and $140 million.

"Yeah I would take less," Walker said Thursday, according to Nick Carboni of WCNC, from the guard's summer basketball camp. "Sure, why not? I would take less."

GustavBahler
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6/13/2019  8:20 PM
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-anthony-davis-kyle-kuzma-20190612-story.html

The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingramor Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.

Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option. Ball’s contract also has two years left with a club option, but it’s worth $19.72 million. Ingram has a year left at $7.27 million and could then become a restricted free agent.

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.

Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland has been heavily linked to the Lakers by people familiar with their draft discussions as a likely selection with the No. 4 pick should they keep it. Garland is represented by Rich Paul, who is the agent for Davis and Lakers star LeBron James.


Though the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics have inquired about Davis, neither team is willing to gut its roster for the multiskilled, 6-foot-10 forward because both believe it would leave them without a strong enough core to contend

stanleybostitch
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6/13/2019  8:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2019  2:43 PM
GustavBahler wrote:https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-anthony-davis-kyle-kuzma-20190612-story.html

The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingramor Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.

Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option. Ball’s contract also has two years left with a club option, but it’s worth $19.72 million. Ingram has a year left at $7.27 million and could then become a restricted free agent.

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.

Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland has been heavily linked to the Lakers by people familiar with their draft discussions as a likely selection with the No. 4 pick should they keep it. Garland is represented by Rich Paul, who is the agent for Davis and Lakers star LeBron James.


Though the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics have inquired about Davis, neither team is willing to gut its roster for the multiskilled, 6-foot-10 forward because both believe it would leave them without a strong enough core to contend

Anyone give thought on whether, if the Pels pull off the above, they would then send us the No 4 pick and one of those three players for the #3 pick if they are convinced Zion+Barrett is the key? And would you do that? If we could get Kuzma or Ingram + Garland or Hunter, well that wouldn't suck.

The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
GustavBahler
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6/13/2019  9:08 PM
stanleybostitch wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-anthony-davis-kyle-kuzma-20190612-story.html

The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingramor Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.

Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option. Ball’s contract also has two years left with a club option, but it’s worth $19.72 million. Ingram has a year left at $7.27 million and could then become a restricted free agent.

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.

Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland has been heavily linked to the Lakers by people familiar with their draft discussions as a likely selection with the No. 4 pick should they keep it. Garland is represented by Rich Paul, who is the agent for Davis and Lakers star LeBron James.


Though the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics have inquired about Davis, neither team is willing to gut its roster for the multiskilled, 6-foot-10 forward because both believe it would leave them without a strong enough core to contend

Anyone give thought on whether, if the Pels pull of the above, they would then send us the No 4 pick and one of those three players for the #3 pick if they are convinced Zion+Barrett is the key? And would you do that? If we could get Kuzma or Ingram + Garland or Hunter, well that wouldn't suck.

Id rather draft Barrett.But if they did that, would want Ball to go to NY. Hi BBall, IQ, believe Ball is going to do well his next stop.

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6/13/2019  11:41 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
stanleybostitch wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-anthony-davis-kyle-kuzma-20190612-story.html

The Pelicans are interested in three of the Lakers’ young players — whether that’s Kuzma, Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingramor Josh Hart — and the No. 4 draft pick in order to acquire Davis, according to people familiar with the trade discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly. It’s possible New Orleans could use the No. 4 pick to acquire a player from a third team.

Among the young Lakers, New Orleans covets Kuzma the most.

Kuzma’s contract is less than those of Ingram and Ball. Kuzma has two years left on his contract that are worth about $5.5 million, the second of which is a team option. Ball’s contract also has two years left with a club option, but it’s worth $19.72 million. Ingram has a year left at $7.27 million and could then become a restricted free agent.

According to people familiar with the Lakers’ thinking, Kuzma has ingratiated himself with the organization both on the court and off, and management does not want to trade the forward, who is entering his third season. The Lakers might have an opportunity to keep their No. 4 pick should they agree to part with Kuzma.

Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland has been heavily linked to the Lakers by people familiar with their draft discussions as a likely selection with the No. 4 pick should they keep it. Garland is represented by Rich Paul, who is the agent for Davis and Lakers star LeBron James.


Though the New York Knicks and Boston Celtics have inquired about Davis, neither team is willing to gut its roster for the multiskilled, 6-foot-10 forward because both believe it would leave them without a strong enough core to contend

Anyone give thought on whether, if the Pels pull of the above, they would then send us the No 4 pick and one of those three players for the #3 pick if they are convinced Zion+Barrett is the key? And would you do that? If we could get Kuzma or Ingram + Garland or Hunter, well that wouldn't suck.

Id rather draft Barrett.But if they did that, would want Ball to go to NY. Hi BBall, IQ, believe Ball is going to do well his next stop.


Lakers trying to move 4 for a player, preferably an all star or a rising all star....no way can we get involved in that trade nor do I want to. Just draft RJ...this yrs draft is a finger roll.
Knicksfan
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6/14/2019  9:32 AM
Isn't this like a worst case scenario for free agency?

Wow, two of the top players available, two of the guys most of us were wondering where would they sign, both have really terrible injuries! Really terrible.

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knickstorrents
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6/14/2019  10:06 AM
It's a silver lining I think. Prevents us from skipping steps in our rebuild. We need to draft and develop players, we need 3 to 4 solid rotation guys on good contracts before we can think of putting the super star free agent cherry on top. We're not there yet!
Rose is not the answer.
martin
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6/14/2019  10:37 AM
knickstorrents wrote:It's a silver lining I think. Prevents us from skipping steps in our rebuild. We need to draft and develop players, we need 3 to 4 solid rotation guys on good contracts before we can think of putting the super star free agent cherry on top. We're not there yet!

we may not be but if the development of those young guys moves into the last years of their respective contract, the cap space evaporates. It's like having a couple high first round picks and not using them.

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ankurk
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6/14/2019  10:55 AM
OKC is looking at 50 mil in luxury tax
We have to look to absorb Patrick Patterson with their 21st overall pick.
Pickup goga or bol bol unless Brandon Clarke or someone else falls
ankurk
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6/14/2019  10:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/14/2019  11:00 AM
Another option is taking on Marvin williams or Biyombo for number 12 and 52

Whoever drops in the lottery - hayes sekou little rui

Absorb and waive these guys

GustavBahler
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6/14/2019  8:45 PM
Jimmy Butler expects a max contract – which projects to carry a starting salary of about $33 million – wherever he goes.

So, he darn sure isn’t locking into his $19,841,627 player option.

Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports:

Philadelphia 76ers forward Jimmy Butler intends to decline his player option — barring an unforeseen change of circumstances — yet the Sixers remain adamant about doing whatever it takes to retain the star, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

The Los Angeles Lakers have genuine interest in acquiring Butler, sources said.

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6/14/2019  9:56 PM
Just hear Ric Bucher on Volin Cowherd show, he said that KD is staying in NY....not going back to the west coast....said that him and Kyrie met about still playing together. He is pushing Knicks kyrie is pushing Nets
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6/14/2019  10:17 PM
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:

Im with KnicksFilmSchool Macri on this.

It's an awful move, I remember going through this s*** with Antonio McDyesse- always waiting, always deluding myself that he was going to come back okay. However if you must convince yourself this is a great idea, think of it this way:

It allows us to stink another year and hopefully land another high pick in next years draft. Furthermore 2020 is a terrible free agent class, so you don't really need any cap space that year as there's literally no one worth signing- it's complete trash. So really KD's salary only becomes a problem in year 3 and 4, by which point it's either sink or swim- either our young guys have started developing and showing their worth, or we're a trash team and are continuing to land high picks in the draft.

I agree with this. RIsk reward is way out of whack


I hear everything you are saying...but who is coming out as FA the next 5 years....majority of players do not make it to "true" free agency for 9-10 years after being drafted....

We can build with the kids and roll the dice on KD. With McDyess all we had was him and no real promising youth...

If you save up your chips who are you targeting in the next 5 years...are you overpaying...poison pilling another teams player on a rookie deal...alah Tim Hardaway....

I am not saying this a signular move...but a calculated risk.....any other players aside from KD and Kawhi...I would not do it...for them I would conisder

I'm ready to give up on the world of max free agency. Under this CBA you use free agency to add role players, you use the draft to add franchise changing talent. You use cap space to take on contracts for picks to help you draft role players and good supporting players. You can also use this cap space/ role players and picks to trade for superstars when they become available.

This years free agency was a once in a blue moon/exception free agency, where so many stars were on the move and it looked like some of them wanted to come to NY. Of course we were right to take a chance on that, but it's very rare (2010 was the last one), so shouldn't be our strategy going forward.

Signing KD would be a mistake, but at the end of the day I agree that we're not landing any max free agents, so it's not the end of the world. Priority going forward is draft picks and lottery position and player development- that's what will determine our future.

..."give up on the world of max free agency. Under this CBA you use free agency to add role players,..."

Yes. This is the new talent management pattern that's been established by all of the fiscal and procedural farces currently in play.

I would also suggest that, in addition to role players, that teams fish for heretofore unrealized talent. Players entering their fourth or fifth year who still show desire just might turn a corner for you. The bonus is that these kinds of contracts don't require huge cap space reserves nor long term contracts.


..."you use the draft to add franchise changing talent..."

Let's refine this a bit as well. No need to tank until and unless an inevitably bad ending is imminent because it guarantees very little.

Now if your actual pick lands in the cradle of franchise changing talent by all means mine that talent. If your pick falls outside that range - triangulate to the best talent available and this includes potential trades.


..."You use cap space to take on contracts for picks to help you draft role players and good supporting players. You can also use this cap space/ role players and picks to trade for superstars when they become available...."

Pretty much spot on.


Translating that to the Knicks - FA signings may be the retention of players who've paid their dues this year. Trier has already been picked up. Vonleah remains a desirable resigning. Numerous complementary, less-than-MAXX FAs could harden the roster.

There's lots of cap space to absorb a useful contract.

Memphis's draft night decision will be interesting. LA could very well persuade them to take Barrett and trade him to NO for LA's pick and a sweetner.

Regardless, Morant or Barrett are worth holding on to for a season or two.


The roster will be eclectic to say the least.

Free Agency 2019 (6/30 6pm ET)

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