What will scare them off IMO is if Dolan takes the wheel again. The front office might keep it quiet, but word will likely get out.

Dolan's 3 strengths as an owner are MSG, his willingness to pay top dollar, without much hesitation. Last but not least, letting Perry/Mills reshape the front office for the first time in many years.

Dolan has made the changes fans have been rightfully asking for, for years. Believe Perry and Mills can make that case to agents and players. In spite of Dolan's occasional trips to Louie DiPalmaland, lol.

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:Jay Williams this week saying he prefers Zion not go to knicks because of Dolan, but does not mention why.
This article by Waldenhttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/19/sports/knicks-durant-kyrie-dolan.html also hammers Dolan but only for past misgivings and that he did not want mills to grant interviews to some media outlet deemed unfair to Dolan. That's not cool, but not a deal breaker in my opinion. His generosity with many players over the years far exceeds his beef with Oakley which in my opinion both are culpable to some extent. No doubt his starphuched past and overreach to get Melo was ignorant and to me keeping him was a concession phil made to him. Melo's inability to adapt and sudden decline in the face of a NTC is not something that can be a chronic redundant offense.
I believe Dolan hiring Isiah and Phil were well intended but obviously not well executed. He has vowed to stay out of basketball decisions and the lack of starphuch in this FO is a good thing.
The Jury is still out on them.

Does Durant not come because of Dolan? A staring infusion of Zion, Durant and Kyrie is a hell of a thing. Dolan is not the factor to Zion, math is. Durant and his agent knows all about Dolan. If there is truth to the rumors its not a factor. If Durant was not considering NY he'd have plenty of opportunity to refute. Might not say he was staying, but he could refute Knicks.
Other than what I mentioned, what is it other than good media fodder about Dolan??

It's just become lazy group-think for writers and commentators now- none of them ever question it. Dolan's been fine the past few seasons, he's taken the step back that we wanted him too except when he stepped in to fire Phil. Sure the oakley thing stunk, but he hasn't interfered with the day to day runnings since Phil took over.

Exactly.

You really think free agents are going to come play for Dolan? You think insulting a few writers changes the facts? You think pointing out how old some of the things he did changes anything?

They still meet with him. They see what he did to Oakley. How everyone talks about him. You think this is some work of fiction by sports writers?

Enjoy discussing which secound rounder can help them... in a year from now. Which Lottery pick. This is finally going to be the year! Enjoying giving the max to the 10th and 18th best free agents, and winning 28 games.

toodarkmark wrote:You Dolan apologists are hilarious. He's the worst owner in sports. He is the reason the Knicks have been mostly bad for TWENTY YEARS.

You really think free agents are going to come play for Dolan? You think insulting a few writers changes the facts? You think pointing out how old some of the things he did changes anything?

They still meet with him. They see what he did to Oakley. How everyone talks about him. You think this is some work of fiction by sports writers?

Enjoy discussing which secound rounder can help them... in a year from now. Which Lottery pick. This is finally going to be the year! Enjoying giving the max to the 10th and 18th best free agents, and winning 28 games.

You hear some of the old Steinbrenner stories and you'd think he was a garbage, vindictive human being that made Dolan look like a saint. Get a stable front office, a period of sustained success and maybe people will forget. Yeah, Dolan can be a piece of work at times. But I doubt free agents care if he treats the media well. But he's stayed out of the way for the most part and he pays up. Let's hope that Perry and Mills bring enough stability to put any concerns potential free agents have to rest.

arkrud wrote:Does anybody care when they get a job what a person the owner of the company is?
People care about the paycheck, about the contract, about the benefits, and about the work environment.
For top athletes it also endorsements, media market, brands, etc.
The owners oddities are for fans and media to have their distractions fulfilled.
For top FA it will be strictly business decision with some part of putting themselves into line of greats who changed the fortunes of a franchise.
Knicks as they are is the low hanging fruit to get all this opportunities realized.
But it is always a fear to fail in front of the whole wold. And many failed miserably.
So it is not about right or wrong choice for the perspective FAs in NY but about them being ready to take the challenge and commitment.
Who will take it will be a right choice for Knicks and who will not we do not need.
If no one of top FA will be courageous enough we need nobody.
We been there and it is time to stop madness by doing the same thing that fails over and over again.

Our FA "Fails" are really not that many. We rarely had many opportunities. The "Decision" were were granted a presentation with Lebron but fact is we had little to offer other than a rebuild. Miami had Wade and the ability to sign Bosh too. Riles had the swag also. Dolan had castrated Walsh. I think we had MDA which should have been a good thing but the roster was not close to being able to round out to contend. Rather than exhibit patience we signed Amare.
If we pursue Durant/Kyrie my only issue is the timeline of rookies to those two if they demand immediate roster for contention. Logic says "What player wouldn't?" But fact is if Durant wants to move on no team can offer him that. Kyrie in Boston is likely in the best situation to win now but Horford is a FA, he is a FA and can they get a trade for AD and see a still mending Haywood as the third wheel?

How we get there is no in my wheelhouse unless we get Zion.
A core of:

Durant
Kyrie
Mitchell
Zion.....

That's very compelling. We have enough assets to trade if we win now. Zion is not a ready made commodity and thus logic says 2 years. We a playoff team that will need chemistry to develop.
But Zion is a low probable dream and I dont' think anyone after him can be seen as a third wheel. Tatum on an established team was able to grow quickly. Barrett or Culver might also be similar. Tatum was good in college, but nobody saw what has become.

I can't think of too many FA "fails" we have had other than pipe dreams. I recall we wooed Brian Grant but we did not have the cap space at the time.
Grant Hill there was a buzz about but it was largely media fueled and while cap rules were different, we did have the space unless we made deals.
That's all old stuff. Im sure some of you might recall others.

MS wrote:There is no bias. Dolan is an *******. The Knicks are toxic, why would you blame Jay Williams and media bias. Right now, we have an unproven management team that's accomplished what to date? Signing Tim Hardaway to a big contract, trading KP for Dennis Smith Jr? We did a nice job in the draft last year, but does anyone think Fizdale is a good coach? There are a lot of questions around this team. People like Fiz, but a lot of guys can be well liked as assistants.

Dolan, has been far from fine. He literally had a Knicks legend thrown out of the building and then trolled him about potential alcohol and mental problems? He got into it with a fan outside the building and then questioned if the fan had substance abuse problems. Pretty amazing when he himself battled those demons. He had a fan banned from MSG because they filmed a kid yelling sell the team.

This is not a stable man, nor is it a stable franchise. Do the Knicks have a history of winning? No they do not. They are the worst team in the NBA and have been a terrible franchise for 15 years.

Greatness does not offer a guarantee for the future. Lakers have been a shyt show now for 8 years now.
All you say are true, but there is an opportunity. If we begin to turn it around few will troll Dolan to sell the team.
Oak is culpable. Oak has a fine history away from MSG.
Dolan is a terrible little man. As long as he stays away he can keep that to himself.
Hardaway is not a reason to not play in NY. Fiz is well liked and attractive to players. There was a reason he was vetted to sign here.

arkrud wrote:

Nalod wrote:

arkrud wrote:Does anybody care when they get a job what a person the owner of the company is?
People care about the paycheck, about the contract, about the benefits, and about the work environment.
For top athletes it also endorsements, media market, brands, etc.
The owners oddities are for fans and media to have their distractions fulfilled.
For top FA it will be strictly business decision with some part of putting themselves into line of greats who changed the fortunes of a franchise.
Knicks as they are is the low hanging fruit to get all this opportunities realized.
But it is always a fear to fail in front of the whole wold. And many failed miserably.
So it is not about right or wrong choice for the perspective FAs in NY but about them being ready to take the challenge and commitment.
Who will take it will be a right choice for Knicks and who will not we do not need.
If no one of top FA will be courageous enough we need nobody.
We been there and it is time to stop madness by doing the same thing that fails over and over again.

Our FA "Fails" are really not that many. We rarely had many opportunities. The "Decision" were were granted a presentation with Lebron but fact is we had little to offer other than a rebuild. Miami had Wade and the ability to sign Bosh too. Riles had the swag also. Dolan had castrated Walsh. I think we had MDA which should have been a good thing but the roster was not close to being able to round out to contend. Rather than exhibit patience we signed Amare.
If we pursue Durant/Kyrie my only issue is the timeline of rookies to those two if they demand immediate roster for contention. Logic says "What player wouldn't?" But fact is if Durant wants to move on no team can offer him that. Kyrie in Boston is likely in the best situation to win now but Horford is a FA, he is a FA and can they get a trade for AD and see a still mending Haywood as the third wheel?

How we get there is no in my wheelhouse unless we get Zion.
A core of:

Durant
Kyrie
Mitchell
Zion.....

That's very compelling. We have enough assets to trade if we win now. Zion is not a ready made commodity and thus logic says 2 years. We a playoff team that will need chemistry to develop.
But Zion is a low probable dream and I dont' think anyone after him can be seen as a third wheel. Tatum on an established team was able to grow quickly. Barrett or Culver might also be similar. Tatum was good in college, but nobody saw what has become.

I can't think of too many FA "fails" we have had other than pipe dreams. I recall we wooed Brian Grant but we did not have the cap space at the time.
Grant Hill there was a buzz about but it was largely media fueled and while cap rules were different, we did have the space unless we made deals.
That's all old stuff. Im sure some of you might recall others.

I was not referring NY only for "Fails" FA.
It is our perspective not the players who will think about coming to NY.
They do not have NY fans perspective about the organization Dolan included.
Chips are end-of-it-all for us but for KD or Irving its a bonus to the ultimate money, brand, and legacy grab.
It will be hard to pass on this opportunity and not for our Knicks fans sake...
Of course they will need a plan to be presented which they PERSONALLY like.
The rest are technicalities.

It would be great to see a presentation like the one they will be shown. Mills was damn near the head of the players union before Dolan seduced him with riches. My take from that is he is respected. Perry does not have the cred but the team is working on a story. They will want to know why KP wanted out. I do too BTW. There is a perspective. Not Racist Janis and his "Pro Melo" Stance, but there was a divide or a lack of trust I think from both ends. Mills and Perry were hesitant to Max him out. We don't know the full story.