[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Assessing Mitch
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 58170
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
3/31/2019  9:59 AM
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Pretty harsh assessment on Frank and Knox.

I see Knox really turning that around. He can easily become a 40% 3pt shooter. He is aggressive on offense and will learn. He can benefit from becoming a complimentary player instead of the first option he is now essentially. Frank i'm not sure about. He doesn't seem to want it. As for Mitch, he is a fascinating prospect who is becoming our most important young piece moving forward. I still think both he and Knox would be top 10 in a redraft. Knox isn't producing well, but anyone can see the tools are there.

O RLY

I too think Knox will improve but man you want to bank on it to be EASY to be a 40% 3P shooter? 40% is the mark of excellence. Man I certainly screwed up my financial future by not becoming a 40% three point shot

Well he's a 35% shooter as a rookie. He's been operating without an effective playmaker for most of the year, so his open shots are limited. Plus rookies tend to take a year to adjust to the 3pt line. Look at most great shooters. Their rookie years were mid-30s from 3, maybe worse. With his adjusting to the NBA line and working as more of a complimentary scorer in the future, he will get more open looks. I think a 5% jump should be pretty attainable.

I hope you are right. I do. But I don't see him making any progress. He doesn't get ready buckets for himself. He doesn't offer anything at an above average level. He provides nothing other than below average overall shooting

I'm just thinking that if he were in more of a Jason Tatum role you would see him shooting numbers much higher. Tatum is a better defender, but i don't see a huge difference in terms of offensive talent. Knox would be a 43% FG and 38% 3pt right now in an offense with better players around him.

I think you are right. Also, Smacked dog made the point that Knox's numbers/offense seemed to suffer when Kanter was taken out of the starting line up in late December.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
technomaster
Posts: 22341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
3/31/2019  4:16 PM
Well, there are 2 general factors:
* Knox plays better when he had veteran big men next to him.
* Knox has tended not to play well when Trier is on the floor with him.

Regardless, Knox had a pretty solid March. Perhaps in part thanks to the competition getting lighter with many teams out of contention, personal improvements to his game, plus the addition of Jordan's veteran play alongside him.

Here's a snippet of the splits (courtesy of Basketball-reference):

Split	Value	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	3P	3PA	FT	FTA	ORB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS	FG%	3P%	FT%	TS%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	+/-	MP	PTS	TRB	AST
Month October 3 0 56 11 31 4 9 2 5 3 6 0 2 1 2 5 28 .355 .444 .400 .422 25.5 86 107 -2.3 18.6 9.3 2.0 0.0
November 13 3 232 30 95 13 43 19 25 8 38 6 5 5 14 26 92 .316 .302 .760 .434 21.3 87 119 -19.1 17.8 7.1 2.9 0.5
December 14 9 488 87 216 33 86 32 50 17 84 21 8 5 21 37 239 .403 .384 .640 .502 22.5 99 119 -13.9 34.9 17.1 6.0 1.5
January 13 13 399 59 161 19 64 32 42 9 53 11 9 3 21 35 169 .366 .297 .762 .471 22.1 88 116 -12.2 30.7 13.0 4.1 0.8
February 12 12 382 57 175 20 68 26 31 13 64 17 5 3 26 32 160 .326 .294 .839 .424 24.3 84 115 -15.6 31.8 13.3 5.3 1.4
March 14 14 400 63 152 25 58 29 40 5 48 15 11 4 17 31 180 .414 .431 .725 .531 20.3 100 118 -17.4 28.6 12.9 3.4 1.1
Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
SupremeCommander
Posts: 32529
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

4/1/2019  9:27 AM
@technomaster, sorry I'm at the doctor's office, couldn't figure out how to quote you

The problem I see with Knox is he has so much to work on. He's 19 and doesn't have any average 1 on 1 moves IMO. He's so weak... I feel like I could take him a fight. That seems absurd when talking about a pro athlete. I would run away from Zion so this isn't a bravado thing

So which skill set will he develop this off-season? Will it work out like it has with Frank? Will Knox ever outperform his contract? Will he develop fully after we decide to let him walk as a free agent? I haven't been impressed with his progress so far. He's a rookie so I won't get to critical with him but I need to see something out of the gate next year. I want efficiency and I want him to do something other than shoot, for example make an impact rebounding the basketball for the entire month of December

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
4/1/2019  10:12 PM
MItch is the real deal. THis summer, needs to develop a post game. Send him to Hakeem!
Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
technomaster
Posts: 22341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
4/1/2019  11:42 PM
@SupremeCommander

My quote of his stats was a bad idea.

Anyway, let’s just focus on his March Stats and look at that as a baseline.

12.9ppg, .414fg, 43.1%3pt, .725ft 3.4rpg, 1.1apg.

If we can take that most recent month and extend that over a season that’s a pretty decent rotation player - it kind of looks like a career year from Courtney Lee!

So I think the Knicks feel that if Knox can simply magure physically and improve his strength/conditioning, he’ll make incremental consistency with his finishing, rebounding and defense. He should get better in those areas.

I don’t know if players as bad as he’s been defensively ever suddenly “get it” and develop into plus defenders but considering that he’s really young, we can’t really judge him as a finished product. He’s shown flashes of brilliance and I think the Knicks plan for him this year is to play him extended minutes and try to teach him to give it his all even when he’s tired.

The big area he’ll need to work on skill wise is seeing his teammates in the floor and improving his play making. The team needs to make it easier for him to create, and perhaps work with him on the pick and roll with him as the ball handler. It might be a simplified way to squeeze an assist or two out of him.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
SupremeCommander
Posts: 32529
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

4/2/2019  9:19 AM
technomaster wrote:@SupremeCommander

My quote of his stats was a bad idea.

Anyway, let’s just focus on his March Stats and look at that as a baseline.

12.9ppg, .414fg, 43.1%3pt, .725ft 3.4rpg, 1.1apg.

If we can take that most recent month and extend that over a season that’s a pretty decent rotation player - it kind of looks like a career year from Courtney Lee!

So I think the Knicks feel that if Knox can simply magure physically and improve his strength/conditioning, he’ll make incremental consistency with his finishing, rebounding and defense. He should get better in those areas.

I don’t know if players as bad as he’s been defensively ever suddenly “get it” and develop into plus defenders but considering that he’s really young, we can’t really judge him as a finished product. He’s shown flashes of brilliance and I think the Knicks plan for him this year is to play him extended minutes and try to teach him to give it his all even when he’s tired.

The big area he’ll need to work on skill wise is seeing his teammates in the floor and improving his play making. The team needs to make it easier for him to create, and perhaps work with him on the pick and roll with him as the ball handler. It might be a simplified way to squeeze an assist or two out of him.

I agree his March has been better. But the three key numbers that jump out to me are:
-41.4% from the field
-3.4rpg
-6'9"

I wouldn't be happy with 45% and and 5rpg, but I wouldn't be as alarmed. Going off your baseline, those numbers are at the core of my concern

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
GustavBahler
Posts: 35352
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

4/2/2019  10:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2019  10:19 AM
Sports writers like to say that if player X was playing in a big market, they would get a lot more attention. These days the adage might be, if Mitch wasnt playing for the Knicks, he would get a lot more attention.

2nd round pick, no organized ball last year. breaking records. Knicks are treated like a small market team, hope that changes next season.

Saw some nice moves under the rim from Mitch that I hadn't seen before. Will be great if Mitch comes back next season with a post game, and eventually a jumper.

knicks1248
Posts: 38510
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/2/2019  10:47 AM
GustavBahler wrote:Sports writers like to say that if player X was playing in a big market, they would get a lot more attention. These days the adage might be, if Mitch wasnt playing for the Knicks, he would get a lot more attention.

2nd round pick, no organized ball last year. breaking records. Knicks are treated like a small market team, hope that changes next season.

Saw some nice moves under the rim from Mitch that I hadn't seen before. Will be great if Mitch comes back next season with a post game, and eventually a jumper.

I doubt he ever gets a true offensive game, but he can be a deadly PnR combo if the right PG (cough cough..Ja morant) is running it.

ES
Chandler
Posts: 23168
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

4/2/2019  11:54 AM

heard a lot of comparisons to Capela but think Mitch has more upside. He's improved on so many things so quickly

And concerning Knox, he gets a pass from me. jumping to 80 game season is tough and rightly or wrongly I don't believe he's getting much coaching, just minutes. I just hope we don't ruin him before he gets coached up

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
GustavBahler
Posts: 35352
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186

4/2/2019  12:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/2/2019  12:20 PM
Chandler wrote:
heard a lot of comparisons to Capela but think Mitch has more upside. He's improved on so many things so quickly

And concerning Knox, he gets a pass from me. jumping to 80 game season is tough and rightly or wrongly I don't believe he's getting much coaching, just minutes. I just hope we don't ruin him before he gets coached up

Agree about Mitch, believe he has better court awareness, anticipation.

Apparently Knox has played more games than any other Knick this season. Youngest player in the league.(or second), and lots of minutes. Not surprising how things played out this season

Last game after the hot start, Knox started hitting the front of the rim. Better conditioning should help elevate his game next season.

knicks1248
Posts: 38510
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/2/2019  12:44 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Chandler wrote:
heard a lot of comparisons to Capela but think Mitch has more upside. He's improved on so many things so quickly

And concerning Knox, he gets a pass from me. jumping to 80 game season is tough and rightly or wrongly I don't believe he's getting much coaching, just minutes. I just hope we don't ruin him before he gets coached up

Agree about Mitch, believe he has better court awareness, anticipation.

Apparently Knox has played more games than any other Knick this season. Youngest player in the league.(or second), and lots of minutes. Not surprising how things played out this season

Last game after the hot start, Knox started hitting the front of the rim. Better conditioning should help elevate his game next season.

He could be in the best shape of his life, he's just not a very smart player. In his first 8 touches yesterday, he pass the ball one time(a frank pass) where the guy he pass the ball to couldn't do nothing with it.

ES
technomaster
Posts: 22341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
4/2/2019  11:12 PM
Other than Mitch, I don't think any of the players drafted after Knox have appreciably more upside than him.

Knox may not evolve into a high BBall IQ superstar. In fact, that's very likely. But at his age and experience level, it's not entirely out of the question that he shows exponential improvement this off-season.

His body might get stiffer, he improves his ft shooting, and he could end up like Steve Novak. He might follow the path of a Tim Thomas (at age 30, he peaked at 5.1rpg, all while looking like an impressive physical specimen) Gallinari (at age 30, having a career rebounding year with the Clippers like Thomas, but with 6.4rpg). He might be an altogether "meh" player like another UK player - Patrick Patterson - a decent enough rotation player.

(I wouldn't harp on rebounding too much at the moment - particularly when he shares the court with some nice rebounding "hogs" like Kanter, Jordan, and now Mitch... and to a somewhat lesser extent, Vonleh. Though while you're at it, you could shame pretty much everyone on the OKC roster for being outrebounded by their 6'3" PG)

(certainly more the exception than the rule: Giannis was the #15 overall pick in what was thought to be a historically bad draft... now he's looking like a generational player a few years in)

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
SupremeCommander
Posts: 32529
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

4/3/2019  10:19 AM
technomaster wrote:Other than Mitch, I don't think any of the players drafted after Knox have appreciably more upside than him.

Knox may not evolve into a high BBall IQ superstar. In fact, that's very likely. But at his age and experience level, it's not entirely out of the question that he shows exponential improvement this off-season.

His body might get stiffer, he improves his ft shooting, and he could end up like Steve Novak. He might follow the path of a Tim Thomas (at age 30, he peaked at 5.1rpg, all while looking like an impressive physical specimen) Gallinari (at age 30, having a career rebounding year with the Clippers like Thomas, but with 6.4rpg). He might be an altogether "meh" player like another UK player - Patrick Patterson - a decent enough rotation player.

(I wouldn't harp on rebounding too much at the moment - particularly when he shares the court with some nice rebounding "hogs" like Kanter, Jordan, and now Mitch... and to a somewhat lesser extent, Vonleh. Though while you're at it, you could shame pretty much everyone on the OKC roster for being outrebounded by their 6'3" PG)

(certainly more the exception than the rule: Giannis was the #15 overall pick in what was thought to be a historically bad draft... now he's looking like a generational player a few years in)

from my experiences with basketball: if you don't set screens, grab rebounds, take charges early in your career, you never do. Frankly, I think the hustle categories should be the most important evaluation factors

Cartman718 said: Is Fiz going to write Zion on the board during the timeout
technomaster
Posts: 22341
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/30/2003
Member: #426
USA
4/3/2019  12:18 PM
Lots of successful (at least by financial measure, primarily) NBA players manage to keep getting signed by teams, make money, and get lots of playing time in spite of their deficiencies.

So Knox has some potentially serious gaps to his game. At the same time, he's flashed at least 1 potentially elite skill (3pt shooting) and enough in other areas that teams will give him a shot for years to come.

As long as he's a Knick, I'll continue to be optimistic about his long term outlook, given that it's a bit pointless harping on the negativity. So if he remains a Knick, we want him to be awesome. Worst case, I'd want to showcase his potential with the hope of getting a better asset in return in return via trade.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
4/3/2019  3:48 PM
Lots of talk about KNox here....he has been underwhelming but he is 19!! So i would say, give him a year behind KD and let him learn. He has the skills to be a great Offensive player and he can rebound. D is suspect.
Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
knicks1248
Posts: 38510
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #582
4/3/2019  4:11 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Lots of talk about KNox here....he has been underwhelming but he is 19!! So i would say, give him a year behind KD and let him learn. He has the skills to be a great Offensive player and he can rebound. D is suspect.

Didn't fiz said they will focus on bringing in defensive minded players...that sounds like the whole roster aside from mitch is trade bait

ES
Knixkik
Posts: 29906
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #11
USA
4/3/2019  4:13 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Lots of talk about KNox here....he has been underwhelming but he is 19!! So i would say, give him a year behind KD and let him learn. He has the skills to be a great Offensive player and he can rebound. D is suspect.

See i don't think he's been underwhelming. He's showing plenty of promise and having his highlights. He's just very inconsistent and doesn't really have a clue. He's already an above average 3pt shooter and obviously has great size. He just needs to learn how to play. Mitch is so far ahead in his development that i think it takes away a bit from what Knox has done in many games.

ramtour420
Posts: 23754
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
4/3/2019  6:16 PM
Knixkik wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Lots of talk about KNox here....he has been underwhelming but he is 19!! So i would say, give him a year behind KD and let him learn. He has the skills to be a great Offensive player and he can rebound. D is suspect.

See i don't think he's been underwhelming. He's showing plenty of promise and having his highlights. He's just very inconsistent and doesn't really have a clue. He's already an above average 3pt shooter and obviously has great size. He just needs to learn how to play. Mitch is so far ahead in his development that i think it takes away a bit from what Knox has done in many games.


Great point. Mitch is the steal of the draft and is playing like a top 3 pick. Kev Knox is playing exactly as you would expect a player picked at his spot to play in year 1, showing tangible improvement towards the end of the season. Shows potential, shows lotsa areas that need work. Kind of like Frankie did in year 1. Kev's year 2 is going to be a bigger indicator of things to come
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
GoNyGoNyGo
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/29/2003
Member: #411
USA
4/3/2019  9:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Lots of talk about KNox here....he has been underwhelming but he is 19!! So i would say, give him a year behind KD and let him learn. He has the skills to be a great Offensive player and he can rebound. D is suspect.

Didn't fiz said they will focus on bringing in defensive minded players...that sounds like the whole roster aside from mitch is trade bait


You are likely right. Frank plays D so does he stay?

I like Kornet too. Dont ask me why, I just do. I think Sotson and Trier are effective too.

Yet another mistake by Dolan. When will it end?
ramtour420
Posts: 23754
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
4/3/2019  9:24 PM
Guess who put up 12/9/3 steals/2 blocks on 66% from the field against the Magic tonite? yeah it was Mitch our rookie center out of nowhere
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
Assessing Mitch

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.