anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

franco12 wrote:When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Not true. Scores are higher, sure. But the best teams are teams that can get stops. GSW has some of the best defensive players in the league. Houston took a step backwards when they got rid of their best defensive players. Frank does need to improve his offense, no question. But you're diminishing the things he can do well. Patrick Beverly scored zero points in the Clippers last game against OKC. Yet he had a plus +22 plus/minus and was arguably the game's MVP.

I'm not diminishing the things he can do well, but what exactly are they?

He's tall, lanky, kinda mildly athletic, but not healthy right now. I know the game requires players to adjust - but his outside shooting this year has been a major disappointment.

Might he develop? Sure - but would you pick him again at our spot? I wouldn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2017.html

I probably still would, based on upside. Then again, I probably wouldn't have picked Knox. Hindsight is 20/20. I still believe in Frank's upside. Still, I would suggest that no one gets too to attached to any young player who is not named Mitchell Robinson.

Dotson and Robinson are the only players I care about. We can trade everyone else as far as Im concerned.

exactly.

Our 2nd round picks are so much better than our lottery picks...

You can't tell me that if you had to choose between Knox and Trier, you go with knox..

Before the season started weren't you telling me that Knox was going to be a huge upgrade over Beasley and we weren't going to be able to tank? I still think Knox will be an all star. We all knew he was raw, but the talent and athleticism are there. Be patient.

Vmart wrote:Frank is by far the best team player the Knicks have. His return proved even with poor shooting he was making others better and had a plus minus of 0. I still don’t know how the Knicks continue to play favoritism over Frank. Mudiay isn’t even going to be on the Knicks next year and if he is here we’re in shyt load of trouble. It means they struck out on FA signing.

Back to Frank you almost have to keep him with his cost friendly contract and has upside.

Best quote I have seen on Frank since most of the board turned on him several mtgs ago

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

I suppose if someone is going to Offer the statement that he is the worst they should post the numbers. Offense? Defense? Steels per, +/-.

I’m not going to pretend he had a good season. He did not. I will suggest the worst team in the league will make many stats look bad.

Point taken...The post I quoted may or may not have been a stretch...however, the point remains that Frank has not, IMO, been mistreated by the coaching staff for being pulled from the starting lineup, getting benched, etc.

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

I suppose if someone is going to Offer the statement that he is the worst they should post the numbers. Offense? Defense? Steels per, +/-.

I’m not going to pretend he had a good season. He did not. I will suggest the worst team in the league will make many stats look bad.

Point taken...The post I quoted may or may not have been a stretch...however, the point remains that Frank has not, IMO, been mistreated by the coaching staff for being pulled from the starting lineup, getting benched, etc.

Not every player is coached the same...when Frank was drafted he was deemed as a project....
He play has merited much minutes but Frank imo cannot flourish in a everybody for himself system...which is no system....I read somewhere that his **** me hare sound it is his confidence that is shot and Fizdales tough love approach has not paid dividends...

If we have a real team next year 8 believe a Frank can be a rotational player if we are playin* in an established system...but if not trade him and let him go somewhere he can take his time to figure out who he will be....

Frank is not Trier...DSJ...or Allen....he grew up playing a completely different type of ball...coupled with his personality of lack of aggression makes th3 case why folks think he is trash...imo this environment and the type of ball played does not play to his skill set...he is a cerebral player that overthinks....also he has not learned basis fundamentals of attacking and finishing at the rim and using his body and length to his advantage...

The players we have now are attack players..M7d...DSJ...Trier....but possibly outside of Trier I do not see any encouraging signs of winning (team);ball that can be played by them.....everything is AAU

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

I suppose if someone is going to Offer the statement that he is the worst they should post the numbers. Offense? Defense? Steels per, +/-.

I’m not going to pretend he had a good season. He did not. I will suggest the worst team in the league will make many stats look bad.

Point taken...The post I quoted may or may not have been a stretch...however, the point remains that Frank has not, IMO, been mistreated by the coaching staff for being pulled from the starting lineup, getting benched, etc.

newyorknewyork wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

I suppose if someone is going to Offer the statement that he is the worst they should post the numbers. Offense? Defense? Steels per, +/-.

I’m not going to pretend he had a good season. He did not. I will suggest the worst team in the league will make many stats look bad.

This was from a past article on KFS and it had to do with FG%. At the time, I cross checked the ranking stats on espn. At time he was the worst with over 20 mpg. However, Nalod is correct Trevor Graham is now the worst and also gets over 20mpg(though has played in 13 less games). SO Frank is the second worst shooter in the NBA who gets what I'd call significant time. There are a few players who score less then frank but have much higher FG%. Trevor Graham again is lower than Frank on PPG. I haven't checked the assists/game...I suspect its not the worst but bottom third or quarter.

I think Frank gets mins because coaches like some of the things he does outside of scoring. Probably stuff coaches would appreciate more so than fans would. I'm sure Fizz sees how Frank could be so useful if he could break through and is giving him as much opportunity show he can given what he could provide if he would. Frank if not traded will at most get next season to show he can until Fizz loses all faith.

I agree. I think it's his defense and size are tantalizing. He's the perfect player for a coach who thinks he can fix a player. But some people here talk as if he were traded to the Spurs suddenly he's be getting 30 min a night guaranteed and by not doing that it shows our staff are clueless.

newyorknewyork wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

anrst wrote:the org doesn't realize that a mitch and frank lineup can be the core of an elite defensive unit ... there was one game this year -- i wish i remembered which and who against -- where both frank and mitch came out to trap a guard and the guy got legit scared and through the ball away

I'm not sure what the organization has done wrong by Frank here. He's gotten minutes out of proportion to his performance. In fact of all players with significant minutes he is the worst statically in the entire league. They've never disparaged him and haven't traded him. They haven't even sent him down to the G league. Maybe he learns to shoot and becomes a 3 and D 2 guard like Dotson, who has surpassed him. Equally possible us he us out of the league in a few years. Sad thing is ifbhus game doesn't progress, as it hasnt this year, he wouldn't even be a star in China.

I'm a Knick fan first and foremost, so I don't subscribe to any particular player camp or debates (Frank vs Mudiay, Spree vs Houston, Chandler vs Gallo, etc). I like to think of myself as realistic and just call it like I see it. The bolded above is on point but will be ignored by some...

I suppose if someone is going to Offer the statement that he is the worst they should post the numbers. Offense? Defense? Steels per, +/-.

I’m not going to pretend he had a good season. He did not. I will suggest the worst team in the league will make many stats look bad.

This was from a past article on KFS and it had to do with FG%. At the time, I cross checked the ranking stats on espn. At time he was the worst with over 20 mpg. However, Nalod is correct Trevor Graham is now the worst and also gets over 20mpg(though has played in 13 less games). SO Frank is the second worst shooter in the NBA who gets what I'd call significant time. There are a few players who score less then frank but have much higher FG%. Trevor Graham again is lower than Frank on PPG. I haven't checked the assists/game...I suspect its not the worst but bottom third or quarter.

I think Frank gets mins because coaches like some of the things he does outside of scoring. Probably stuff coaches would appreciate more so than fans would. I'm sure Fizz sees how Frank could be so useful if he could break through and is giving him as much opportunity show he can given what he could provide if he would. Frank if not traded will at most get next season to show he can until Fizz loses all faith.

I agree. I think it's his defense and size are tantalizing. He's the perfect player for a coach who thinks he can fix a player. But some people here talk as if he were traded to the Spurs suddenly he's be getting 30 min a night guaranteed and by not doing that it shows our staff are clueless.

There aren't many that do and the ones that do aren't really that vocal about it. Meloshouldgo was the most vocal in terms of that viewpoint. but don't think he post here anymore.

Frank first and foremost would need to prove he can stay healthy. I don't think it would be suddenly. But once he matures physically and mentally maybe.

While I am giving Fizz the benefit of the doubt since I think he has been tanking. The constant iso ball hasn't been a good look this season. It allows dudes who specializes in that to have nice stat lines. But doesn't generate wins. I think that may tie in to that narrative. That forget just Frank alone. But being able to have players who constantly share the rock and a system that leads to easier high % shots. A dude who does the little things yet also finds himself getting a bunch of high % shots which of course he would need to make. Much like what Denver has established. Which is why they have players up and down the depth chart making contributions.