Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

93BUICK wrote:I am still as pro Frank as I was when he was drafted.
There's a few negatives that I think are stupid narratives-
1: He's Phil's guy - WHO CARES that shouldn't be a negative.
2: We've seen enough- HE'S TWENTY - he was ahead of his age in Europe. He's the same age as a college player still. His bad year this year amongst a 4 PG tryout w DSjr,Mudiay,and Trey Burke with no system or line up consistency- is totally opposite his skill set within an organized set team. When we have that kind of team he will be an amazing piece.
3: He can't break down the D Handle the ball shoot well enough to be a PG - That's true. He should not be a PG. He would be a good complimentary guard w DSjr or Kyrie - he would still have to improve handle drive and shot, but he can pass and is smart, and will defend the other team's dominant guard for the PG. DSjr already went out of his way to say he wanted to play w Frank. He can hit the open 3 in a well timed offensive system and move the ball to shooters or lobs to Mitch -that's a perfect compliment if we do land a great scorer like KD.
4: It's 7 million on the cap : That part is rough. I really hope we don't starphuck him out of here. KD if you're listening please tell them to keep Frank.
5: He doesn't fit- Because we suck. He's the opposite of a bad team good stats guy. He's not going to be Chauncey liked we may have hoped but if he's Bruce Bowen you keep him- and he will be cheap and help you win. Classic bad move to let go of early. Wrong time to worry about his poor performance this year.

When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Frank had the biggest chance for all stardom and being a bust.

We've seen flashes of the stellar play he can provide - clutch shooting and superb defense.

But overall, his body of work has been a HUGE disappointment and I don't know how the FO can't have misgivings and questions about his long term future with the club and in the NBA. Perhaps they turned down trades at the deadline because they still have hope, or maybe our FO wants to hold him till the off season in case we have to jettison players like DSjr & Mudiay and they want depth at the PG spot.

You make good points. But when there are “flashes” there is evidence of talent.
If he just stopped growing his body will soon start to mature its “man strenth”.
If true do you close the book on him already and label him a “bust” at such an early age and one really bad injury?

Lavor Postell had flashes of talent!

BigDaddyG wrote:

franco12 wrote:When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Not true. Scores are higher, sure. But the best teams are teams that can get stops. GSW has some of the best defensive players in the league. Houston took a step backwards when they got rid of their best defensive players. Frank does need to improve his offense, no question. But you're diminishing the things he can do well. Patrick Beverly scored zero points in the Clippers last game against OKC. Yet he had a plus +22 plus/minus and was arguably the game's MVP.

I'm not diminishing the things he can do well, but what exactly are they?

He's tall, lanky, kinda mildly athletic, but not healthy right now. I know the game requires players to adjust - but his outside shooting this year has been a major disappointment.

Might he develop? Sure - but would you pick him again at our spot? I wouldn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2017.html

Cartman718 wrote:

Marv wrote:i'm still a big believer in frank's future. he didn't have a good sophmore campaign but i also think fiz didn't manage him well. a quick reminder of his abilities:

So basically he has good games when people talk shot about him.
Knox has the same problem.
Frank's best games have been the one you posted and the game against the Lakers when Lamar Ball was sitting next to Spike.

If that's what it takes for them to have great games, they're not gonna last long. At that level, you have to find a way to motivate yourself.

Mitch never takes a game off. How many times can we say that about Frank and Knox

I don’t think these guys are “out of shape” as some have said. They are not yet physically developed for this mans game. They don’t lack motivation. Hindsight tells us everything but the future.
We assume Gleague would help them because it helped others but we have little to assume other than some examples like Timmy. Timmy’s problem and result return are not fully documented other than our assumptions of humility as a motivator.
If knox is going to be a checker let him do it in the NBA. If Frank won’t get system chemistry on a Gleague team let him then do it at the NBA level. My argument holds little water because this does not seem to work at this level and open concept often appear to be better alternatives.
Is there a downside to Gleague for these guys?
Speaking of which, why as Billy Garrett not gotten a chance to come up and play?
Would sending Kevin and Frank to Gleague be like sending someone to prison in hope that they are “reformed” or as “Punishment”? AKA, work on their games? Or apply humiliation as a motivator?

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Marv wrote:i'm still a big believer in frank's future. he didn't have a good sophmore campaign but i also think fiz didn't manage him well. a quick reminder of his abilities:

So basically he has good games when people talk shot about him.
Knox has the same problem.
Frank's best games have been the one you posted and the game against the Lakers when Lamar Ball was sitting next to Spike.

If that's what it takes for them to have great games, they're not gonna last long. At that level, you have to find a way to motivate yourself.

Mitch never takes a game off. How many times can we say that about Frank and Knox

I don’t think these guys are “out of shape” as some have said. They are not yet physically developed for this mans game. They don’t lack motivation. Hindsight tells us everything but the future.
We assume Gleague would help them because it helped others but we have little to assume other than some examples like Timmy. Timmy’s problem and result return are not fully documented other than our assumptions of humility as a motivator.
If knox is going to be a checker let him do it in the NBA. If Frank won’t get system chemistry on a Gleague team let him then do it at the NBA level. My argument holds little water because this does not seem to work at this level and open concept often appear to be better alternatives.
Is there a downside to Gleague for these guys?
Speaking of which, why as Billy Garrett not gotten a chance to come up and play?
Would sending Kevin and Frank to Gleague be like sending someone to prison in hope that they are “reformed” or as “Punishment”? AKA, work on their games? Or apply humiliation as a motivator?

Less pressure, a temporary change of scenery, working with coaches who have done a good job of developing former lotto picks.

Baker was about as tough as they come. No hesitation in putting himself in situations where he would get cloberred. Took some of the nastier shots on this team, while he was a Knick. Almost all of it on the defensive end, or away from the ball.

Like Frank, he was allergic to the rim. Neither of them were very willing to try and draw a foul either, get to the line. You dont need next level athleticism to do that.

Believe the lack of interior scoring (nevermind shooting) in both cases is mental. Both of them are great at sharing the rock, but they pass up too many opportunities. These are the kind of issues, that G-league was made for. Player development.

G-League isnt a cure all, but its not a career destroyer either. That is unless the player takes it that way, and doesnt make the most of his time there.

fishmike wrote:Frank needs to play in an offense with structure. He needs to run plays. When he does we have seen him play well at times. He hasnt been a great spot up shooter and doesnt go hunting for shots so the free for all offense we have played during a lot of the season has not helped him.

I hope we keep Frank and can be patient. I think he ends up a good NBA player and hopefully its with us. He's 20. If you are going to draft babies like Frank and Knox you have to be patient. Knox looks like a poor man's Tim Thomas. He's just so bad but you have to let him take his lumps and look at the good moments and have perspective. Some these kids you are gonna get lucky with and they are gonna pop early but others it takes a few years.

Knox showed some scoring ability and Frank ability to defend and run the team.
But it is much more to the NBA game that just one skill.
They need to work on so much stuff that it will inevitable affect the things they already good at.
We will have next meaningful game in 9 month... So it is a lot of time for them to work on their game, body, and mind.
They have talent and physical tool to be NBA players. Now it is up to their determination and Knicks organization to develop them.
Very interesting to observe this. And it is very refreshing that first tine in 20 years there is something to observe with this club.

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Marv wrote:i'm still a big believer in frank's future. he didn't have a good sophmore campaign but i also think fiz didn't manage him well. a quick reminder of his abilities:

So basically he has good games when people talk shot about him.
Knox has the same problem.
Frank's best games have been the one you posted and the game against the Lakers when Lamar Ball was sitting next to Spike.

If that's what it takes for them to have great games, they're not gonna last long. At that level, you have to find a way to motivate yourself.

Mitch never takes a game off. How many times can we say that about Frank and Knox

I don’t think these guys are “out of shape” as some have said. They are not yet physically developed for this mans game. They don’t lack motivation. Hindsight tells us everything but the future.
We assume Gleague would help them because it helped others but we have little to assume other than some examples like Timmy. Timmy’s problem and result return are not fully documented other than our assumptions of humility as a motivator.
If knox is going to be a checker let him do it in the NBA. If Frank won’t get system chemistry on a Gleague team let him then do it at the NBA level. My argument holds little water because this does not seem to work at this level and open concept often appear to be better alternatives.
Is there a downside to Gleague for these guys?
Speaking of which, why as Billy Garrett not gotten a chance to come up and play?
Would sending Kevin and Frank to Gleague be like sending someone to prison in hope that they are “reformed” or as “Punishment”? AKA, work on their games? Or apply humiliation as a motivator?

Actually...it is exactly what they lack. The talent is there, it's the other stuff that's missing so far.

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:All groin injuries are the same?

They are different but must heal within a certain timeframe or groin must fall off leg. At least that’s what I’m understanding. I didn’t play college hoops so I’m behind on this curve

Frank should be fine for 2019 training camp.

LivingLegend wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:All groin injuries are the same?

They are different but must heal within a certain timeframe or groin must fall off leg. At least that’s what I’m understanding. I didn’t play college hoops so I’m behind on this curve

Waits for 1 or god forbid 2 examples of groin injury keeping a player out for 6 - 8 weeks.

Still waiting........

Waits for Knicks player to miss 2 months with a headache or constipation.

Frank still mending? Does he even have a groin?

"The man with the golden groin"

Sure is being treated that way. Difficult to determine from afar what the deal is. If its a case of Frank being only "80 percent", or its a season ending caliber injury. Not sure how many the NBA runs across.

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:All groin injuries are the same?

They are different but must heal within a certain timeframe or groin must fall off leg. At least that’s what I’m understanding. I didn’t play college hoops so I’m behind on this curve

Waits for 1 or god forbid 2 examples of groin injury keeping a player out for 6 - 8 weeks.

Still waiting........

Waits for Knicks player to miss 2 months with a headache or constipation.

Frank still mending? Does he even have a groin?

"The man with the golden groin"

Sure is being treated that way. Difficult to determine from afar what the deal is. If its a case of Frank being only "80 percent", or its a season ending caliber injury. Not sure how many the NBA runs across.

I don't think they are press to play him no more, every game he plays his value sinks even further into the abyss..they would prefer to give Kadeem, mudiay and DSJ his minutes

Don’t play him cuz other teams will think his value his higher! Man, thats sneaky brilliance!

BigDaddyG wrote:

franco12 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

franco12 wrote:When every team is scoring over 100 pts as an average, I don't see how an NBA team can have a Bruce Bowen type player. True, you still need to play defense, but if you can't score, you won't play.

Not true. Scores are higher, sure. But the best teams are teams that can get stops. GSW has some of the best defensive players in the league. Houston took a step backwards when they got rid of their best defensive players. Frank does need to improve his offense, no question. But you're diminishing the things he can do well. Patrick Beverly scored zero points in the Clippers last game against OKC. Yet he had a plus +22 plus/minus and was arguably the game's MVP.

I'm not diminishing the things he can do well, but what exactly are they?

He's tall, lanky, kinda mildly athletic, but not healthy right now. I know the game requires players to adjust - but his outside shooting this year has been a major disappointment.

Might he develop? Sure - but would you pick him again at our spot? I wouldn't.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2017.html

I probably still would, based on upside. Then again, I probably wouldn't have picked Knox. Hindsight is 20/20. I still believe in Frank's upside. Still, I would suggest that no one gets too to attached to any young player who is not named Mitchell Robinson.

Dotson and Robinson are the only players I care about. We can trade everyone else as far as Im concerned.