arkrud wrote:

VCoug wrote:

technomaster wrote:Here's how I see our 3 PGs at the moment.

Frank's floor is Andre Roberson. That's if he can't learn to shoot or play PG. That still means he's worth of a 25mpg role on a strong playoff team with a big contract.

Upside: Long armed defender with team skills
* Nate McMillan and Nic Batum if he becomes a passable shooter, ball handler, and can play some PG, but for the most part remains passive.
* Evan Turner if he becomes a capable ball handler and can play some PG. (shooting doesn't develop)
* Tayshaun Prince if he can shoot/finish passably, but never becomes a capable PG.

Mudiay's floor is himself the first few years of career. Erratic player that can't shoot. Michael Carter Williams.

Upside: solid all-around offensive player, solid NBA starting PG, minutes eater. Won't put fear into other coaches, but will steadily contribute stats.
* Malcolm Brogdon (a 3rd year player at the ripe old age of 26) - contributes solid stats in a team concept.
* Tyreke Evans with a better jump shot
* Mike Conley - generally unspectacular but steady floor general that periodically puts up big numbers.
* Perhaps Doc Rivers?!
* I guess it's time we rule out Jason Kidd/John Wall - he doesn't have the motor/quickness/defense.

DSJ's floor is Shannon Brown or Keyon Dooling if he doesn't continue to grow as a floor general. Dooling was touted as the next Baron Davis, killer athleticism and basic skills, but never got it all together in the NBA. We've seen even in our short time with him this year that he has surpassed the best of both of these guys.

Upside: elite offensive PG, fantasy basketball star, perennial all-star candidate. Not sure about defensive impact, but a feared offensive player that can go off for 20-30ppg if you don't put together a game plan to slow him down.
* Baron Davis
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* John Wall/Derrick Rose/Russell Westbrook (all of these guys have exceptionally long arms, but he has similar athleticism - DSJ has average wingspan like Kyrie)

Ntilikina's floor can't be Roberson because he's currently a much worse player than Roberson. Ntilikina has not shot over 40% from two in either year so far; Roberson has never shot under 56% from 2 and has only shot under 60% his rookie year. Ntilikina is a better 3PT shooter than Roberson but since he isn't actually good at shooting 3s I don't think it really makes a difference. On top of that, Roberson has consistently put up better STL% and BLK% than Ntilikina has so far. Frank's offense currently makes him basically unplayable on a good team and his defense is nowhere nearly enough to make up for it. I'd say his floor is "potentially out of the league after his rookie contract".

With few exceptions the NBA players can be truly evaluated not earlier that 21-22 years old.
Some even take longer but it usually clear after 22 what young player can achieve.
Frank need 1-2 more seasons to develop. And this is the purpose of his contract.

Sure, and I'm not talking about getting rid of him though I would be shocked if he ever develops into a rotational player. I just take issue with saying that an NBA player's floor is better than what they're currently are. Like, we have nearly two seasons of Ntilikina as one of the worst players in the NBA, that's literally his floor because that's what he's doing in the NBA. His floor can't be higher than his current play level.

knicks1248 wrote:Some of you are soooooooo bias, you criticize players who are not home grown. The same people who want mudiay gone are the same ones who have frank in every line up as the pg (either starting or off the bench) and he's 5x worse.

You do the same with Knox, you criticize (non knick draftees/players) for being black holes, tunnel vision, selfish players, then clap and pump your fist after knox shoots 3-17 and 1 assist, then use his age as an excuse not to pass the damn ball.

Mudiay is going to be in the second or third wave of FA, but i dont see nothing wrong with him being a back up to DSJ, he's a much better option in frank, who i think will be traded anyway, and his far from being an actual NBA PG

I think Frank is a goner for a future lottery protected first and cap space if we sign stars this offseason. 4 million could bring in a useful rotation player. It will also give us cheaper options down the road when we are maxed out.

VCoug wrote:

technomaster wrote:Here's how I see our 3 PGs at the moment.

Frank's floor is Andre Roberson. That's if he can't learn to shoot or play PG. That still means he's worth of a 25mpg role on a strong playoff team with a big contract.

Upside: Long armed defender with team skills
* Nate McMillan and Nic Batum if he becomes a passable shooter, ball handler, and can play some PG, but for the most part remains passive.
* Evan Turner if he becomes a capable ball handler and can play some PG. (shooting doesn't develop)
* Tayshaun Prince if he can shoot/finish passably, but never becomes a capable PG.

Mudiay's floor is himself the first few years of career. Erratic player that can't shoot. Michael Carter Williams.

Upside: solid all-around offensive player, solid NBA starting PG, minutes eater. Won't put fear into other coaches, but will steadily contribute stats.
* Malcolm Brogdon (a 3rd year player at the ripe old age of 26) - contributes solid stats in a team concept.
* Tyreke Evans with a better jump shot
* Mike Conley - generally unspectacular but steady floor general that periodically puts up big numbers.
* Perhaps Doc Rivers?!
* I guess it's time we rule out Jason Kidd/John Wall - he doesn't have the motor/quickness/defense.

DSJ's floor is Shannon Brown or Keyon Dooling if he doesn't continue to grow as a floor general. Dooling was touted as the next Baron Davis, killer athleticism and basic skills, but never got it all together in the NBA. We've seen even in our short time with him this year that he has surpassed the best of both of these guys.

Upside: elite offensive PG, fantasy basketball star, perennial all-star candidate. Not sure about defensive impact, but a feared offensive player that can go off for 20-30ppg if you don't put together a game plan to slow him down.
* Baron Davis
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* John Wall/Derrick Rose/Russell Westbrook (all of these guys have exceptionally long arms, but he has similar athleticism - DSJ has average wingspan like Kyrie)

Ntilikina's floor can't be Roberson because he's currently a much worse player than Roberson. Ntilikina has not shot over 40% from two in either year so far; Roberson has never shot under 56% from 2 and has only shot under 60% his rookie year. Ntilikina is a better 3PT shooter than Roberson but since he isn't actually good at shooting 3s I don't think it really makes a difference. On top of that, Roberson has consistently put up better STL% and BLK% than Ntilikina has so far. Frank's offense currently makes him basically unplayable on a good team and his defense is nowhere nearly enough to make up for it. I'd say his floor is "potentially out of the league after his rookie contract".

Seriously your floor can't be better than what you are at th moment.

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

VCoug wrote:

technomaster wrote:Here's how I see our 3 PGs at the moment.

Frank's floor is Andre Roberson. That's if he can't learn to shoot or play PG. That still means he's worth of a 25mpg role on a strong playoff team with a big contract.

Upside: Long armed defender with team skills
* Nate McMillan and Nic Batum if he becomes a passable shooter, ball handler, and can play some PG, but for the most part remains passive.
* Evan Turner if he becomes a capable ball handler and can play some PG. (shooting doesn't develop)
* Tayshaun Prince if he can shoot/finish passably, but never becomes a capable PG.

Mudiay's floor is himself the first few years of career. Erratic player that can't shoot. Michael Carter Williams.

Upside: solid all-around offensive player, solid NBA starting PG, minutes eater. Won't put fear into other coaches, but will steadily contribute stats.
* Malcolm Brogdon (a 3rd year player at the ripe old age of 26) - contributes solid stats in a team concept.
* Tyreke Evans with a better jump shot
* Mike Conley - generally unspectacular but steady floor general that periodically puts up big numbers.
* Perhaps Doc Rivers?!
* I guess it's time we rule out Jason Kidd/John Wall - he doesn't have the motor/quickness/defense.

DSJ's floor is Shannon Brown or Keyon Dooling if he doesn't continue to grow as a floor general. Dooling was touted as the next Baron Davis, killer athleticism and basic skills, but never got it all together in the NBA. We've seen even in our short time with him this year that he has surpassed the best of both of these guys.

Upside: elite offensive PG, fantasy basketball star, perennial all-star candidate. Not sure about defensive impact, but a feared offensive player that can go off for 20-30ppg if you don't put together a game plan to slow him down.
* Baron Davis
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* John Wall/Derrick Rose/Russell Westbrook (all of these guys have exceptionally long arms, but he has similar athleticism - DSJ has average wingspan like Kyrie)

Ntilikina's floor can't be Roberson because he's currently a much worse player than Roberson. Ntilikina has not shot over 40% from two in either year so far; Roberson has never shot under 56% from 2 and has only shot under 60% his rookie year. Ntilikina is a better 3PT shooter than Roberson but since he isn't actually good at shooting 3s I don't think it really makes a difference. On top of that, Roberson has consistently put up better STL% and BLK% than Ntilikina has so far. Frank's offense currently makes him basically unplayable on a good team and his defense is nowhere nearly enough to make up for it. I'd say his floor is "potentially out of the league after his rookie contract".

Seriously your floor can't be better than what you are at th moment.

Frank along with Mario are mistakes the FO will never admit

How does that work? Priest confessional? Public flogging?
They getting fired this summer as you have mentioned?

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

VCoug wrote:

technomaster wrote:Here's how I see our 3 PGs at the moment.

Frank's floor is Andre Roberson. That's if he can't learn to shoot or play PG. That still means he's worth of a 25mpg role on a strong playoff team with a big contract.

Upside: Long armed defender with team skills
* Nate McMillan and Nic Batum if he becomes a passable shooter, ball handler, and can play some PG, but for the most part remains passive.
* Evan Turner if he becomes a capable ball handler and can play some PG. (shooting doesn't develop)
* Tayshaun Prince if he can shoot/finish passably, but never becomes a capable PG.

Mudiay's floor is himself the first few years of career. Erratic player that can't shoot. Michael Carter Williams.

Upside: solid all-around offensive player, solid NBA starting PG, minutes eater. Won't put fear into other coaches, but will steadily contribute stats.
* Malcolm Brogdon (a 3rd year player at the ripe old age of 26) - contributes solid stats in a team concept.
* Tyreke Evans with a better jump shot
* Mike Conley - generally unspectacular but steady floor general that periodically puts up big numbers.
* Perhaps Doc Rivers?!
* I guess it's time we rule out Jason Kidd/John Wall - he doesn't have the motor/quickness/defense.

DSJ's floor is Shannon Brown or Keyon Dooling if he doesn't continue to grow as a floor general. Dooling was touted as the next Baron Davis, killer athleticism and basic skills, but never got it all together in the NBA. We've seen even in our short time with him this year that he has surpassed the best of both of these guys.

Upside: elite offensive PG, fantasy basketball star, perennial all-star candidate. Not sure about defensive impact, but a feared offensive player that can go off for 20-30ppg if you don't put together a game plan to slow him down.
* Baron Davis
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* John Wall/Derrick Rose/Russell Westbrook (all of these guys have exceptionally long arms, but he has similar athleticism - DSJ has average wingspan like Kyrie)

Ntilikina's floor can't be Roberson because he's currently a much worse player than Roberson. Ntilikina has not shot over 40% from two in either year so far; Roberson has never shot under 56% from 2 and has only shot under 60% his rookie year. Ntilikina is a better 3PT shooter than Roberson but since he isn't actually good at shooting 3s I don't think it really makes a difference. On top of that, Roberson has consistently put up better STL% and BLK% than Ntilikina has so far. Frank's offense currently makes him basically unplayable on a good team and his defense is nowhere nearly enough to make up for it. I'd say his floor is "potentially out of the league after his rookie contract".

Seriously your floor can't be better than what you are at th moment.

Frank along with Mario are mistakes the FO will never admit

How does that work? Priest confessional? Public flogging?
They getting fired this summer as you have mentioned?

Berman reported as at the start of 2019-2020 training camp NY GM Perry admitted that Mario was the biggest mistake of his NBA run so far and he was echoed by Steve Mills with his admission of Frank the Frenchman was his biggest mistake (rolling eyes).
Now when the truth finally come up we are waiting for Dolan to make a decision on what the consequences for failed executive will be...
Stay tuned!!!