Marv wrote:

misterearl wrote:Charles Barkley was outstanding. But he never led a team to win a ring.

The hype that precedes him will be so intense, and the New York expectations so high, he can only fail.

Alternate direction: trust the process can last another three years. The next component should be 6’10 with the handles of rod strickland, shot of Bob McAdoo and the hops of a gazelle

Patience

didn’t we just trade the 7’3” version to dallas?

That one was broken. We sent it back

misterearl wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:Earl, you are one of the posters who I really enjoy on this forum. Once again your words have merit and wisdom. Let us all take a breather and consider which BIG MAN were the championship centerpiece on title teams "recently". The only players that come to mind are Olajuwon, Shaq, Dunkin and then Nowitzki. For a while now it has been clear as day that backcourt players win titles nowadays and thats the direction. Durant and Lebron are backcourt players even at their height. The writing is on the wall. Sir Charles failing to win it all might not be the strongest point there, same for Ewing. Not being able to run an effective offense in todays NBA through a traditional orthodox big man IS that strong point however.

ramtour - Thank you for the kind words.

For me it is more a situational feeling. Not every player is built for New York. A college sophomore in the big city, with the weight of a franchise being the first player selected, just feels like a heavy load to drop on him.

There were no saviors on the 1969 or 1973 championship teams.
Constructed with deliberate care. DeBusschere was no savior, but he was the straw (via his veteran presence) that stirred the drink.
They were greater than the sum of their parts.

Take it slow.

Thats what some of us are saying, take down the hype and look at the player and the potential.
No need to worry about this as we don’t know what the final rankings will be. Maybe Zion falls to third and we take this there? This happens its obvious the hype died down.

The Legacy team was built over a long period starting with 1964 Willis Reed who was a high flying Antonio McDyess type player at PF. The Knicks like many great teams replaced good players with even better ones. The Bellemay/Komies for Debussure was about moving Reed over from PF as his knees were slowing him down. The chemistry with Bells and Reed did not work great. Two allstars, little chemistry.
Cazzie was drafted a year after Bradley went over seas and was a better talent but Bradley became a better teammate. We pushed up talent and developed from within.
Your right, no messiahs but there was always hype. Cazzie was a hyped 30ppg player of the year savior taken first in the draft and was an nba allster. In many aspects he was the best player on the knicks But as we all know his knee was problematic an he was a “me first” type player. Bradley also a hyped player of the year. He was Slow and moved from SG to SF.
My point is your right, but its not the hype in February that matters. We don’t know the final ranking of these players nor the order of teh draft. The scenario we argue is Zion is the hyped pick but nobody but knicks know he is not worth it or we need a team to want to trade up as they want him more than others.
Cazzie got us an older Jerry Lucas and his brilliant play enabled the 1973 chip. Willis was on his last leg that season.

Remember Debuscerre guarding Wilt at times in the 73' series was amazing. That team was special and remains why Im still a knick fan.

TheGame wrote:Zion is a one-man wrecking crew. Even without a jumpshot, this guy will score 17-19 a game just on his ability to out jump, outrun, and outmuscle the competition. Now whether he gets on a Charles Barkley level will depend on if his jumper develops, but I have read that most people think he will be a solid jumpshooter with time. The guy is a Lebron James-type physical specimen. You just cannot pass on that. There is no way I would not draft Zion. The only way I might consider it is if a team offered us a top 2 or 3 pick, an asset and another first round pick. Like if Boston had the second pick and offered us Tatum, the second pick, and a future first rounder, then I would think about it, but other than that, I am picking Zion. Morant is good, but we have Dennis Smith, who I think will develop into a starter. Barrett is good, but we have Knox and Trier as scorers at the 2/3 spot. We have no one that can bring what Zion brings. The only other thing I would consider is drafting Zion and trading him for Davis, but I would not trade our whole team. I would give New Orleans Zion, Trier, and maybe one of those two first rounder picks we got from Dallas, and I would only do that trade if Kevin Durant signs here. Then you have Davis and Durant as your foundation, with Smith, Knox, Mitchell, Frank, and Dodson as your developing players, plus you still have your own first round picks over the next three years.

The time line is you get your draft order, then draft, then free agent season.
Rare that deals are contingent on signing another player so you do the deal if you have a promise from a free agent. Its illegal via NBA rules, but that don't mean it can't.

jrodmc wrote:Amazing the level of incoherence when it comes to someone who's just about single-handedly running the NCAA at the absolute highest level. We have to have someone who's not Charles Barkley (even though Barkley wasn't anywhere near 6'7") because THE LEAGUE RIGHT THIS SECOND has bypassed big players, but we can't expect one person to carry the load because the last crew to win chips here were all seasoned professionals, FORTY FUCKING YEARS AGO. Most of the same people puking on Zion are jerking off over Mitch Robinson and Frankie and Knox. Unreal.

The kid's not just a rare physical freak, he's got the IQ and mentality to go with it that we never saw with LeQ out of high school. He's thoughtful, he's team-oriented and we're not looking at the last Knicks 'saviour' with legs of clay. His trunk and lower body are built to sustain impact. The kid is as close to the ****ing Hulk as any athlete to come to the lottery. But let's pass on him waiting for Earl's magically constructed gazelle.

Is he Giannis? Who gives a ****? Anyone looking at Giannis' shooting percentages? He couldn't hit a jumper consistently from further than 8 feet if you put a gun to his head.

Is he KD? Again, who gives a ****? KD won lots of chips before taking the ***** move to GS, right?

You put all these "grown men" we already have around this juggernaut, and things are going to get scary good around here right quick.

I hear what your saying but think about this. your top draft pick is going to be 11 yrs younger than your best player, maybe your 2 best players, thats a huge timeline gap..

misterearl wrote:Charles Barkley was outstanding. But he never led a team to win a ring.

The hype that precedes him will be so intense, and the New York expectations so high, he can only fail.

Alternate direction: trust the process can last another three years. The next component should be 6’10 with the handles of rod strickland, shot of Bob McAdoo and the hops of a gazelle

Patience

Barkley only had to get through the greatest player of all time. No one was getting through Jordan. Never thought Sixer put a team around him similar fate to Ewing. And if Jordan doesn’t retire bet Hakeem gets the same fate.

Zion is a lot different than Barkley he is more explosive, build is a lot more muscular, has better handle and overall better passing instincts than Barkley.

jrodmc wrote:Amazing the level of incoherence when it comes to someone who's just about single-handedly running the NCAA at the absolute highest level. We have to have someone who's not Charles Barkley (even though Barkley wasn't anywhere near 6'7") because THE LEAGUE RIGHT THIS SECOND has bypassed big players, but we can't expect one person to carry the load because the last crew to win chips here were all seasoned professionals, FORTY FUCKING YEARS AGO. Most of the same people puking on Zion are jerking off over Mitch Robinson and Frankie and Knox. Unreal.

The kid's not just a rare physical freak, he's got the IQ and mentality to go with it that we never saw with LeQ out of high school. He's thoughtful, he's team-oriented and we're not looking at the last Knicks 'saviour' with legs of clay. His trunk and lower body are built to sustain impact. The kid is as close to the ****ing Hulk as any athlete to come to the lottery. But let's pass on him waiting for Earl's magically constructed gazelle.

Is he Giannis? Who gives a ****? Anyone looking at Giannis' shooting percentages? He couldn't hit a jumper consistently from further than 8 feet if you put a gun to his head.

Is he KD? Again, who gives a ****? KD won lots of chips before taking the ***** move to GS, right?

You put all these "grown men" we already have around this juggernaut, and things are going to get scary good around here right quick.

Exactly. We're taking the kid if we get the first pick, just like ANY team that lands the #1.

A few points for consideration:

1. Lebron wasn't a good shooter in his first couple of years
2. Max-class FA will not sign with us after 7/1 if we pass on Zion 6/20. FFS, would you?
3. Zion is a legit franchise stud and fills a position of need.

Are we really gonna pass on this kid with the #1? No effing way.