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Dennis Smith Jr
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Moonangie
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2/11/2019  5:42 PM
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

AUTOADVERT
Bretrobert1
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2/12/2019  1:14 PM
DSjr had a possession in the 2nd half yesterday where he drove aimlessly to the baseline, picked up his dribble and actually shot (an airball) over the backboard. Keep in mind, this was with some time left on the shot clock..
"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
fishmike
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2/12/2019  1:22 PM
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

HofstraBBall
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2/12/2019  2:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2019  2:39 PM
fishmike wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

Fish, whats up man? So it is a knock on Smith that the Mavs were lucky to get the best all around player in the draft? One that is extremely ball dominant? Did Rick differ in 2017/2018 season before they won the lotto? Yeah but lets ignore the truth. Fish playing any angle to put the kid he hates so much down. Why?

I like Ja's athleticism. Don't think he is our best fit or has the most potential. You obviously cant pass on Zion but think Reddish or Barrett have more upside than Ja and are less of a risk. Would love to have Kyrie come in but hoping Smith can be a far cheaper alternative. What happened to your preference of home grown talent over FA's? Don't apply to Smith. Although would agree that there is no way Smith can get anywhere near Kyrie's ability right now. Would like to see the Knicks get something going next year. Even if it means giving up on assets, including Smith. Tired of the tanking, hoping and watching our draft fantasies go up in smoke. As we saw in Boston, Philly, you have to trade some of your longshots/hope picks for some guys that can already play the game.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
homeskillitprigioni
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2/12/2019  3:17 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

Fish, whats up man? So it is a knock on Smith that the Mavs were lucky to get the best all around player in the draft? One that is extremely ball dominant? Did Rick differ in 2017/2018 season before they won the lotto? Yeah but lets ignore the truth. Fish playing any angle to put the kid he hates so much down. Why?

I like Ja's athleticism. Don't think he is our best fit or has the most potential. You obviously cant pass on Zion but think Reddish or Barrett have more upside than Ja and are less of a risk. Would love to have Kyrie come in but hoping Smith can be a far cheaper alternative. What happened to your preference of home grown talent over FA's? Don't apply to Smith. Although would agree that there is no way Smith can get anywhere near Kyrie's ability right now. Would like to see the Knicks get something going next year. Even if it means giving up on assets, including Smith. Tired of the tanking, hoping and watching our draft fantasies go up in smoke. As we saw in Boston, Philly, you have to trade some of your longshots/hope picks for some guys that can already play the game.

How is it not a knock on him? He should've been excited that he got a great looking player, one that was also easily better than him, to team up with. Instead he took a sabbatical because he was angry about it. The idea he couldn't have co-existed with Luka is nonsense. He just didn't want to.

Right now, he's not a winning team player. He's nowhere near good enough and I don't think he'll ever be to garner being the focal point of an offense. But that's the role he wants. He's a player that can put up some highlight reel plays and some empty stats for a losing team. If we for once ever hit our goal and get 2 legit max guys, how in the world is this dude going to adjust to that? Especially when Knox and whoever a possible top 3 pick is could both potentially be higher on the pecking order by next year than he is.

Even if we ignore all that, he's a great athlete, but I'm not sure what exactly he's special at. Not a good shooter, doesn't have superior court vision, he's solid at getting to the hoop at times but not a great finisher either. I think his real calling if he's ever going to be a key player on a winning team is as a 6th man, but I don't think he'll be open to that kind of role until much later in his career.

HofstraBBall
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2/12/2019  4:13 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2019  4:19 PM
homeskillitprigioni wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

Fish, whats up man? So it is a knock on Smith that the Mavs were lucky to get the best all around player in the draft? One that is extremely ball dominant? Did Rick differ in 2017/2018 season before they won the lotto? Yeah but lets ignore the truth. Fish playing any angle to put the kid he hates so much down. Why?

I like Ja's athleticism. Don't think he is our best fit or has the most potential. You obviously cant pass on Zion but think Reddish or Barrett have more upside than Ja and are less of a risk. Would love to have Kyrie come in but hoping Smith can be a far cheaper alternative. What happened to your preference of home grown talent over FA's? Don't apply to Smith. Although would agree that there is no way Smith can get anywhere near Kyrie's ability right now. Would like to see the Knicks get something going next year. Even if it means giving up on assets, including Smith. Tired of the tanking, hoping and watching our draft fantasies go up in smoke. As we saw in Boston, Philly, you have to trade some of your longshots/hope picks for some guys that can already play the game.

How is it not a knock on him? He should've been excited that he got a great looking player, one that was also easily better than him, to team up with. Instead he took a sabbatical because he was angry about it. The idea he couldn't have co-existed with Luka is nonsense. He just didn't want to.

Right now, he's not a winning team player. He's nowhere near good enough and I don't think he'll ever be to garner being the focal point of an offense. But that's the role he wants. He's a player that can put up some highlight reel plays and some empty stats for a losing team. If we for once ever hit our goal and get 2 legit max guys, how in the world is this dude going to adjust to that? Especially when Knox and whoever a possible top 3 pick is could both potentially be higher on the pecking order by next year than he is.

Even if we ignore all that, he's a great athlete, but I'm not sure what exactly he's special at. Not a good shooter, doesn't have superior court vision, he's solid at getting to the hoop at times but not a great finisher either. I think his real calling if he's ever going to be a key player on a winning team is as a 6th man, but I don't think he'll be open to that kind of role until much later in his career.

So that is why the Mavs looked to move on from him? Because he did not want to play with Luca? Your making things up or naïve to what really went on. Mavs decided to move on because they inherited the best player in the 2018 draft. One who proved to be a player to build around by his play during first half of the year. Mavs realized they had a franchise player and needed to change directions. That simple. But lets make it all about Smiths attitude being what triggered the Mavs change of direction. And blame it on Smith taking a sabbatical. FYI Getting KP had a little bit to do with it as well. And I guess Mathews and Barnes did not want to play with Luca and were moved for same reason?

Your pretty good. You can gauge a winning team player in just a year and half in the NBA? These are all easy put downs of anyone that you cant factually devalue. Everything you just said is just not backed by stats. realistic expectations and is extremely premature. Makes no sense to label a kid that way, who is 20 years young and whos small sample size proves you wrong.

"Melo was the best thing that ever happened to the Knicks organization. Phil came in and fucked things up and got $60 Million to do so" -TripleThreat 11-13-2018
BigDaddyG
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2/12/2019  4:35 PM
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

I think Fix has shown that he might be the worst coach for DSJ at this point in his career. He needs to be reigned in a bit, not allowed freelance to his heart's content. We already know DSJ can create. He needs to learn when to use that skill and when to let the game come to him. It's the other extreme to the problem Frank has.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Moonangie
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2/12/2019  5:29 PM
fishmike wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

Luka plays the same position in the same role...so his opinion would be biased. However, you may still have a point. Either way, he's a solid talent with upside.

meloshouldgo
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2/12/2019  5:35 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

I think Fix has shown that he might be the worst coach for DSJ at this point in his career. He needs to be reigned in a bit, not allowed freelance to his heart's content. We already know DSJ can create. He needs to learn when to use that skill and when to let the game come to him. It's the other extreme to the problem Frank has.

Fiz is good as a motivational speaker. He doesn't seem to know what he is doing as a basketball coach. I don't think we should fire him right now, because this WAS a tank year. But I am not confident he will show any better coaching skills in a season where we are not tanking.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
TripleThreat
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2/12/2019  5:44 PM
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.


DSJr Good

- Can get to the cup consistently
- Some natural ability in close contact ( Some angles and spacing and pace situations, he naturally reacts and makes the right choice on an option tree)
- Can play way above the rim

DSJr Bad

- Shot selection is ass
- Decision making is ****ing atrocious ( makes many of the same mistakes over and over)
- Offers limited potential for 3 And D value ( His defense is better than in college, but that's no saying much, he needs a consistent league average three ball)
- He has a growing rep as a total piece of **** ( Carlisle can't fix you, then odds are you are piece of rotting road kill that's been in a hot Texas summer day too long)
- He basically held out on his team, in season, to force a trade. Some of the big problem here is he's useless off the ball ( not being able to hit a league average three ball is a big part of this)

He has the TALENT to be an All Star.

He has the ATTITUDE of a guy who gets stabbed in a barfight over who sat in what stool last.

I've met Mark Cuban a few times. He's a brilliant dude. But he's a total ****ing *******. You don't get where he got by being soft. If DSJr is such a ****ing tool that even he's too much of an ******* for Cuban, then you have to wonder if there is any hope for DSJr between the ears.

You can get by without being a good decision maker if you play with extreme discipline. They are two different things. I don't think DSJr will ever evolve into a good decision maker on the floor, but he needs hardline coaching to be a disciplined player. If Carlisle can't get through to him, the argument is no one can. He needs to go to Miami. Where Pat Riley will basically Scarface him into submission.

Jeremy Lin, contrary to what many say, is NOT a high IQ BB player. He is however very disciplined and that makes a big difference on the court. It's not hopeless for DSJr, but he's gotta be willing to be less of a total ****ing tool.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
meloshouldgo
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2/12/2019  6:40 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.


DSJr Good

- Can get to the cup consistently
- Some natural ability in close contact ( Some angles and spacing and pace situations, he naturally reacts and makes the right choice on an option tree)
- Can play way above the rim

DSJr Bad

- Shot selection is ass
- Decision making is ****ing atrocious ( makes many of the same mistakes over and over)
- Offers limited potential for 3 And D value ( His defense is better than in college, but that's no saying much, he needs a consistent league average three ball)
- He has a growing rep as a total piece of **** ( Carlisle can't fix you, then odds are you are piece of rotting road kill that's been in a hot Texas summer day too long)
- He basically held out on his team, in season, to force a trade. Some of the big problem here is he's useless off the ball ( not being able to hit a league average three ball is a big part of this)

He has the TALENT to be an All Star.

He has the ATTITUDE of a guy who gets stabbed in a barfight over who sat in what stool last.

I've met Mark Cuban a few times. He's a brilliant dude. But he's a total ****ing *******. You don't get where he got by being soft. If DSJr is such a ****ing tool that even he's too much of an ******* for Cuban, then you have to wonder if there is any hope for DSJr between the ears.

You can get by without being a good decision maker if you play with extreme discipline. They are two different things. I don't think DSJr will ever evolve into a good decision maker on the floor, but he needs hardline coaching to be a disciplined player. If Carlisle can't get through to him, the argument is no one can. He needs to go to Miami. Where Pat Riley will basically Scarface him into submission.

Jeremy Lin, contrary to what many say, is NOT a high IQ BB player. He is however very disciplined and that makes a big difference on the court. It's not hopeless for DSJr, but he's gotta be willing to be less of a total ****ing tool.

So, reading between the lines, the bad outweighs the good?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Welpee
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2/12/2019  6:51 PM
homeskillitprigioni wrote:How is it not a knock on him? He should've been excited that he got a great looking player, one that was also easily better than him, to team up with. Instead he took a sabbatical because he was angry about it. The idea he couldn't have co-existed with Luka is nonsense. He just didn't want to.

I'm not a fan of DSJ, but I've heard people in the media insinuate that there was more to it than that. Mainly that Carlisle had a double standard where he would jump down DSJ's throat for things that he would let slide with Luka. I have no idea how true that is but it seems plausible that there's much more to the story than not co-existing with Luka on the court, particularly since I've read that they had become friends in their short time together.

Who knows what the truth is?

fishmike
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2/12/2019  9:07 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Moonangie wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:DSJ is way to ball dominant. Everyone else is standing around while he dribbles. Durant, Leonard, Thompson wont want to play with him

He wouldn't be so ball dominant playing with elite talent...he's playing with rooks...probs he has carte blanche from Fiz in this obvious tank year.

Rick and Luka beg to differ.

Hopefully we can pump and dump him, especially if we pick 2 (Ja) and/or if we sign a big FA PG

Fish, whats up man? So it is a knock on Smith that the Mavs were lucky to get the best all around player in the draft? One that is extremely ball dominant? Did Rick differ in 2017/2018 season before they won the lotto? Yeah but lets ignore the truth. Fish playing any angle to put the kid he hates so much down. Why?

Hofstra! Whats good dude? Offer to punch anyone who doesnt see it your way? Tired of stat nerds who dont understand jocks? Then sir... Dennis Smith might just be the guy for you!
Facts:
Averages about as many shots taken as points made (for you non stat guys that stinks)
Poor A/TO for PG
Bad +/- stats
looks great in highlights

What is really funny is how you think I hate him. This is an integral part of your debating skills. Its like talking to a Trump supporter. Folks just cant admit what a great job Don is doing because they hate him so much. I dont hate DSjr. I never have.

However now he's a Knick and I love him like KristapsMudiay. It would be great if he pans out and is a winning player. He's not a court vision guy but he's surely a good passer and if his 3 gets a bit better and his shot selection ever shows up at all he could certainly be a good PG. I picture his upside a drive and dish type scoring PG like Marbury (minus the vasoline eating and bad attitude). Maybe some Steve Francis there also. DSjr can absolutely turn into an excellent player. He just isnt now. Dont know why this works you up so much. Frank stinks right now and Im not sweating it... you should follow my example. Also avoid 1248's posts. They are laced with PCP.

I think with Jordan (nice ally oop vs. the Raptors btw) the Knicks will start playing better. I think we are seeing that already. Hopefully Smith looks better as well and draws attention come draft day, especially if we are #2 as I think after Zion that Ja is the only franchise talent so I think Smith has some value if he plays well with 2 years on his rookie deal.

If we keep him Im hopeful that Fiz can get him playing well. I never thought Mudiay would show the fundamental improvements he's shown (hoping its not just PEDs) and I think that Fiz is a good fit, certainly for the next 30ish games.

Hows your boy Melo doing? Times are tough for misunderstood underappreciated star players!

fishmike
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2/12/2019  9:11 PM
Welpee wrote:
homeskillitprigioni wrote:How is it not a knock on him? He should've been excited that he got a great looking player, one that was also easily better than him, to team up with. Instead he took a sabbatical because he was angry about it. The idea he couldn't have co-existed with Luka is nonsense. He just didn't want to.

I'm not a fan of DSJ, but I've heard people in the media insinuate that there was more to it than that. Mainly that Carlisle had a double standard where he would jump down DSJ's throat for things that he would let slide with Luka. I have no idea how true that is but it seems plausible that there's much more to the story than not co-existing with Luka on the court, particularly since I've read that they had become friends in their short time together.

Who knows what the truth is?

Hofstra does!

Hopefully getting traded helps him. I just hope some of these young guys pop. I dont care if its DSjr or Mitch or whoever. We need a few of these guys to pop.

Welpee
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2/12/2019  10:29 PM
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:
homeskillitprigioni wrote:How is it not a knock on him? He should've been excited that he got a great looking player, one that was also easily better than him, to team up with. Instead he took a sabbatical because he was angry about it. The idea he couldn't have co-existed with Luka is nonsense. He just didn't want to.

I'm not a fan of DSJ, but I've heard people in the media insinuate that there was more to it than that. Mainly that Carlisle had a double standard where he would jump down DSJ's throat for things that he would let slide with Luka. I have no idea how true that is but it seems plausible that there's much more to the story than not co-existing with Luka on the court, particularly since I've read that they had become friends in their short time together.

Who knows what the truth is?

Hofstra does!

Hopefully getting traded helps him. I just hope some of these young guys pop. I dont care if its DSjr or Mitch or whoever. We need a few of these guys to pop.

No doubt.
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2/13/2019  11:43 AM
Bretrobert1 wrote:DSjr had a possession in the 2nd half yesterday where he drove aimlessly to the baseline, picked up his dribble and actually shot (an airball) over the backboard. Keep in mind, this was with some time left on the shot clock..

i saw that. was very strange. i don't know why he went baseline from the get go. was clearly closed off.

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2/13/2019  11:57 AM
anrst wrote:
Bretrobert1 wrote:DSjr had a possession in the 2nd half yesterday where he drove aimlessly to the baseline, picked up his dribble and actually shot (an airball) over the backboard. Keep in mind, this was with some time left on the shot clock..

i saw that. was very strange. i don't know why he went baseline from the get go. was clearly closed off.

you throw it off the defender and take ball out of bounds. that play was horrible

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
Chandler
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2/13/2019  11:59 AM
there are times the game looks so easy for DSJ; he's getting by people with speed to spare

then there are other times where he barely draws the side of the rim

He has to come to Jesus and realize that his future relies on making the team better first, his stats better third or fourth

Clearly talented (but still confused)

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
Bretrobert1
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2/13/2019  1:43 PM
To me, DSjr hasn't gotten past the stage where he was just quicker and more athletic than the competition. It's like a really athletic high school player that scores 20/game against bad teams b/c he can get to the hoop. But then, when the same player sees a solid defensive team--with good fundamentals, that same player won't show up in the boxscore except maybe a handful of turnovers. Granted, it's not quite at that level, but that's a fairly decent comparison.

Really good players that possess quicks and athleticism use it in spurts but don't rely on those traits 100%. For me, this is the big question with Zion. Is he a once in a generation type athlete, or does he look like a freak playing against inferior competition? At his height, I'm leaning towards the latter. I think he'll be a solid pro, but he's not going to dominate the League from an athletic standpoint at 6'7". Will he have a handful of explosive plays a game?.. Yes. Will those plays put him on another level over the other best 4's in the League. I have a hard time seeing it.

"I love you guys." -Norman Dale
anrst
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2/13/2019  3:08 PM
Bretrobert1 wrote:To me, DSjr hasn't gotten past the stage where he was just quicker and more athletic than the competition. It's like a really athletic high school player that scores 20/game against bad teams b/c he can get to the hoop. But then, when the same player sees a solid defensive team--with good fundamentals, that same player won't show up in the boxscore except maybe a handful of turnovers. Granted, it's not quite at that level, but that's a fairly decent comparison.

Really good players that possess quicks and athleticism use it in spurts but don't rely on those traits 100%. For me, this is the big question with Zion. Is he a once in a generation type athlete, or does he look like a freak playing against inferior competition? At his height, I'm leaning towards the latter. I think he'll be a solid pro, but he's not going to dominate the League from an athletic standpoint at 6'7". Will he have a handful of explosive plays a game?.. Yes. Will those plays put him on another level over the other best 4's in the League. I have a hard time seeing it.

him agains lowry was classic case.

like someone said earlier, the game looks easy for DSJ

and lowry looks fat and has a bad back

and yet lowry punished DSJ for going under the screen

Dennis Smith Jr

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