technomaster wrote:54 minutes isn't a lot, though it's worth considering keeping this group on the floor longer. You'd figure it might be beneficial keeping them together for more than 9 min/game.

With a sample size this small, 1 hot/cold quarter can really screw things up.

So given the recent "Why Kanter is net negative in spite of beastly numbers" threads and articles, I'm sold that he's probably not an ideal mentor when it comes to offensive or defensive plays. In his mind, he's probably breaking plays because he sees something else on the floor and reacts accordingly. (and at least according to the knicksfilmschool, he's making the wrong reads)

So the word seems to be that in spite of less-than-elite athleticism, Kornet plays some quality basketball that would make Michael Doleac proud. He makes the right reads, he's fundamentally making the right rotations, and he's hitting shots. And when the center makes the right rotations it helps align the rest of the defense.

In other news, it appears as if Knox's growth plates haven't closed yet - he's got a little more growing to do, literally.

Him and Frank. Weird to be a knick fan and were we used to draft more mature guys like Frye and Jordan Hill, we now go deep in yoot. KP, Frank and now Knox.

technomaster wrote:54 minutes isn't a lot, though it's worth considering keeping this group on the floor longer. You'd figure it might be beneficial keeping them together for more than 9 min/game.

With a sample size this small, 1 hot/cold quarter can really screw things up.

So given the recent "Why Kanter is net negative in spite of beastly numbers" threads and articles, I'm sold that he's probably not an ideal mentor when it comes to offensive or defensive plays. In his mind, he's probably breaking plays because he sees something else on the floor and reacts accordingly. (and at least according to the knicksfilmschool, he's making the wrong reads)

So the word seems to be that in spite of less-than-elite athleticism, Kornet plays some quality basketball that would make Michael Doleac proud. He makes the right reads, he's fundamentally making the right rotations, and he's hitting shots. And when the center makes the right rotations it helps align the rest of the defense.

In other news, it appears as if Knox's growth plates haven't closed yet - he's got a little more growing to do, literally.

Kemet wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm not a fan of keeping Mudiay. I don't think he plays winning basketball as a point guard. His decision making and style of play, not going to lead a team to the playoffs IMO.

I like Vonleh, I already made a thread about Kornet. People call him slow, but he can shoot the 3, and is able to bring some unicorn qualities. I think he's a great backup to KP next season.

Hardaway is best served as a sixth man off the bench instant offense type of guy on a good team.

I envision it as hopefully becoming a top 9 rotation like this

Randle (Free agent signing, upgrade to Vonleh)
Porzingis
Knox
Frank (Yes give him a shot to start with a healthy KP, stronger Knox and better unselfish team)
Maront or RJ Barrett (If RJ, Frank is the point, if Maront, Frank is the 2)
------------------
Hardaway - first off the bench
Kornet - replaces Porzingis off the bench
Lee - second wing off the bench
Trier - backup point

Probably need to use some cap money to sign a veteran backup point guard, since Trier is not a proven NBA player on a good team.

I like Randle but I’m concerned about him defensively. I would like to pair KP with a good defensive big. Robinson will probably be the first big off the bench next year, but I hope we keep Kornet in the roster. Morant Or Rubio are my hope to address the PG. I like Trier and Frank together off the bench. I think they compliment each other as different style combo guards.

Defensively the Knicks have a problem with KP at PF. He has to play Center. It's absolutely ridiculous to have a 7'3" player with limited lateral agility on the perimeter. He is one of the top rim protectors in the NBA. He needs to play near the basket. The lack of talent on this franchise means we basically have to cater to him. Somehow we have to find a combo PF/C that is athletic enough to guard 3's but is bulky enough to guard 280lb centers. Oh yeah he also has to be able to grab 15 rebounds /48 and hit an open 3. All because KP won't play Center.

But doesn’t Vonleh already do most of those things ? He can guard all 3 front court positions and rebounds well, athletic, and hits open threes at 40%. He’s still only 23 too. He’s a combo big who can play PF/C depending on matchup. As far as non-star bigs he’s a pretty perfect fit.

You guys know we also have Mitchell Robimson, right? He can guard 4s and 5s with ease. He will need to bulk up a bit but between him and Vonleh we can get two different styles of complimentary players for KP. Vonleh is the best perimeter defender of the 3 right now.

I agree. Vonleh and Robinson are both great compliments to KP. Kornet is a decent 4th big. No need to change the bigs really. We need better guard play.

In the 3 seasons of KP .. KP best season was alongside Kanter, where KP average 33 minute, 22 pts, 6 rb, 1 ast, and 2 Blk.
KP is a poor PF and a poor center.
KP has a very low IQ as a big man .. KP is not a rim protector or glass cleaner .. Truth be said, KP never showed he had skills to be a NBA starter !!!
Vonleh has been performing very well to become a great asset to bring off the bench next season as a 2-Way PF.
MitchRob and Kornet are athletic young big men that may/will need a good bigman coach (Rasheed Wallace)to coach them thru a 82 game season.

??? trolling?

Kemet wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm not a fan of keeping Mudiay. I don't think he plays winning basketball as a point guard. His decision making and style of play, not going to lead a team to the playoffs IMO.

I like Vonleh, I already made a thread about Kornet. People call him slow, but he can shoot the 3, and is able to bring some unicorn qualities. I think he's a great backup to KP next season.

Hardaway is best served as a sixth man off the bench instant offense type of guy on a good team.

I envision it as hopefully becoming a top 9 rotation like this

Randle (Free agent signing, upgrade to Vonleh)
Porzingis
Knox
Frank (Yes give him a shot to start with a healthy KP, stronger Knox and better unselfish team)
Maront or RJ Barrett (If RJ, Frank is the point, if Maront, Frank is the 2)
------------------
Hardaway - first off the bench
Kornet - replaces Porzingis off the bench
Lee - second wing off the bench
Trier - backup point

Probably need to use some cap money to sign a veteran backup point guard, since Trier is not a proven NBA player on a good team.

I like Randle but I’m concerned about him defensively. I would like to pair KP with a good defensive big. Robinson will probably be the first big off the bench next year, but I hope we keep Kornet in the roster. Morant Or Rubio are my hope to address the PG. I like Trier and Frank together off the bench. I think they compliment each other as different style combo guards.

Defensively the Knicks have a problem with KP at PF. He has to play Center. It's absolutely ridiculous to have a 7'3" player with limited lateral agility on the perimeter. He is one of the top rim protectors in the NBA. He needs to play near the basket. The lack of talent on this franchise means we basically have to cater to him. Somehow we have to find a combo PF/C that is athletic enough to guard 3's but is bulky enough to guard 280lb centers. Oh yeah he also has to be able to grab 15 rebounds /48 and hit an open 3. All because KP won't play Center.

But doesn’t Vonleh already do most of those things ? He can guard all 3 front court positions and rebounds well, athletic, and hits open threes at 40%. He’s still only 23 too. He’s a combo big who can play PF/C depending on matchup. As far as non-star bigs he’s a pretty perfect fit.

You guys know we also have Mitchell Robimson, right? He can guard 4s and 5s with ease. He will need to bulk up a bit but between him and Vonleh we can get two different styles of complimentary players for KP. Vonleh is the best perimeter defender of the 3 right now.

I agree. Vonleh and Robinson are both great compliments to KP. Kornet is a decent 4th big. No need to change the bigs really. We need better guard play.

In the 3 seasons of KP .. KP best season was alongside Kanter, where KP average 33 minute, 22 pts, 6 rb, 1 ast, and 2 Blk.
KP is a poor PF and a poor center.
KP has a very low IQ as a big man .. KP is not a rim protector or glass cleaner .. Truth be said, KP never showed he had skills to be a NBA starter !!!
Vonleh has been performing very well to become a great asset to bring off the bench next season as a 2-Way PF.
MitchRob and Kornet are athletic young big men that may/will need a good bigman coach (Rasheed Wallace)to coach them thru a 82 game season.

A little over exaggeration....But that's my problem with KP.....He doesn't fit any normal mold.

He's not a PF
He's not a Center
And he's not a go to guy

Can he become all of those things? Of course.
Was he trending in the right direction? Of course.

I think when Melo left, KP was trying to be like Melo and dominate the ball, instead of being like KP.

But his game has to evolve as he matures. Right now he either needs to develop more lateral quickness to be a PF or bulk up and get stronger to play Center or both so he can play anywhere. Until then, just put him out there and see what happens, which is exactly what Fiz will do and has done. I believe KP and Hardaway are locked in starters (eventhough I agree THj is a better 6th man like JR Smith). Knox is becoming that starting SF as well. The rest will be moving pieces, until some kind of chemistry develops between different units.

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:If Vonleh is legit, and can be relied upon to start the next two to three years. We need to get more start power at the guard spot. Assuming Knox gets stronger and more consistent, and KP gets healthy, you'll probably have enough offense and defense with KP/Vonleh/Knox starting.

But the backcourt, no way you can get away with Frank or Mudiay.
Tim could theoretically start for another two years, but I'd prefer a better defender and more of a playmaker. Knox is very similar to Tim in how he plays as well.

Then you hope to get a pick where you can draft Ja Morant. He's an attacking guard and can pass, but you will need to wait on him as well.

I get the argument to keep Vonleh over going and signing someone like Randle. I would be fine with that. However in this case, to be a competitive playoff team next year, you need a big upgrade at point guard.

I completely agree about the back court. Mudiay and Hardaway don't cut it. Hardaway is a fine starter but is a 6th man on a great team. Mudiay has improved but is still a below average starting PG. We need to build up the back court.

Probably could carry the scoring burden next year, assuming that KP is healthy, Knox is more mature/stronger better, and THJ is same.
It would then be vital the point be able to set them up, because neither KP/Tim/Knox are good at setting others up, they look for their own shot first and like to shoot the ball. It becomes vital that you don't have a Mudiay, or a passive PG like Frank. You need a PG that is smart, understands the attacking angles on drives and how to find the open man (not to mention just run the offense. Would this be Rubio? Maybe draft someone like Morant. Sign Rubio to start and mentor him. Sign Randle.

Randle/Kornet/Robinson
Porzingis/Randle
Knox/Dotson/Lee
Hardaway/Ntilikina
Rubio/Morant/Trier

Could this team make the playoffs? I think so.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm not a fan of keeping Mudiay. I don't think he plays winning basketball as a point guard. His decision making and style of play, not going to lead a team to the playoffs IMO.

I like Vonleh, I already made a thread about Kornet. People call him slow, but he can shoot the 3, and is able to bring some unicorn qualities. I think he's a great backup to KP next season.

Hardaway is best served as a sixth man off the bench instant offense type of guy on a good team.

I envision it as hopefully becoming a top 9 rotation like this

Randle (Free agent signing, upgrade to Vonleh)
Porzingis
Knox
Frank (Yes give him a shot to start with a healthy KP, stronger Knox and better unselfish team)
Maront or RJ Barrett (If RJ, Frank is the point, if Maront, Frank is the 2)
------------------
Hardaway - first off the bench
Kornet - replaces Porzingis off the bench
Lee - second wing off the bench
Trier - backup point

Probably need to use some cap money to sign a veteran backup point guard, since Trier is not a proven NBA player on a good team.

I like Randle but I’m concerned about him defensively. I would like to pair KP with a good defensive big. Robinson will probably be the first big off the bench next year, but I hope we keep Kornet in the roster. Morant Or Rubio are my hope to address the PG. I like Trier and Frank together off the bench. I think they compliment each other as different style combo guards.

Defensively the Knicks have a problem with KP at PF. He has to play Center. It's absolutely ridiculous to have a 7'3" player with limited lateral agility on the perimeter. He is one of the top rim protectors in the NBA. He needs to play near the basket. The lack of talent on this franchise means we basically have to cater to him. Somehow we have to find a combo PF/C that is athletic enough to guard 3's but is bulky enough to guard 280lb centers. Oh yeah he also has to be able to grab 15 rebounds /48 and hit an open 3. All because KP won't play Center.

But doesn’t Vonleh already do most of those things ? He can guard all 3 front court positions and rebounds well, athletic, and hits open threes at 40%. He’s still only 23 too. He’s a combo big who can play PF/C depending on matchup. As far as non-star bigs he’s a pretty perfect fit.

You guys know we also have Mitchell Robimson, right? He can guard 4s and 5s with ease. He will need to bulk up a bit but between him and Vonleh we can get two different styles of complimentary players for KP. Vonleh is the best perimeter defender of the 3 right now.

I agree. Vonleh and Robinson are both great compliments to KP. Kornet is a decent 4th big. No need to change the bigs really. We need better guard play.

In the 3 seasons of KP .. KP best season was alongside Kanter, where KP average 33 minute, 22 pts, 6 rb, 1 ast, and 2 Blk.
KP is a poor PF and a poor center.
KP has a very low IQ as a big man .. KP is not a rim protector or glass cleaner .. Truth be said, KP never showed he had skills to be a NBA starter !!!
Vonleh has been performing very well to become a great asset to bring off the bench next season as a 2-Way PF.
MitchRob and Kornet are athletic young big men that may/will need a good bigman coach (Rasheed Wallace)to coach them thru a 82 game season.

??? trolling?

If you look at KP's body of work, he isn't that far off. KP does play good interior D though, but really poor perimeter D. He is not a good passer out of double teams and while he can put the ball on the floor, he is always at risk of having it stolen from him. KP's arriving on the scene was a string of a few 30 point games, before defenses started going to work on him, last season. Then he got injured. I really want him to do good, but there are question marks around his ability to learn new things like passing and adding to his game and handling the pressure as the go to option. Her still needs to show a quality counter move to being stripped by teams that play defense close to his body. KP would succeed in a structured offense, opposite of hero ball **** we are doing now.

I thought he was trolling calling him a poor rim protector and non-starter. Obviously he was one of the best rim protectors in the game and was a plus player on both side of the ball at age 22. He was a top 25 player before getting hurt both in basic stats and advanced stats. What he needs is a PG who can get him easy baskets and create plays. KP was being asked to create his own shots similar to how Melo did. With a good PG that can run pick and roll and move the ball, it changes everything for KP. What he did with a bad team around him and no PG was incredible. Look at our record before he got hurt and since then, it tells the story.

meloshouldgo wrote:I haven't seen a lot of Morant, he play any defense?

He’s not terrible, but his offense is way ahead of his defense.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I'm not a fan of keeping Mudiay. I don't think he plays winning basketball as a point guard. His decision making and style of play, not going to lead a team to the playoffs IMO.

I like Vonleh, I already made a thread about Kornet. People call him slow, but he can shoot the 3, and is able to bring some unicorn qualities. I think he's a great backup to KP next season.

Hardaway is best served as a sixth man off the bench instant offense type of guy on a good team.

I envision it as hopefully becoming a top 9 rotation like this

Randle (Free agent signing, upgrade to Vonleh)
Porzingis
Knox
Frank (Yes give him a shot to start with a healthy KP, stronger Knox and better unselfish team)
Maront or RJ Barrett (If RJ, Frank is the point, if Maront, Frank is the 2)
------------------
Hardaway - first off the bench
Kornet - replaces Porzingis off the bench
Lee - second wing off the bench
Trier - backup point

Probably need to use some cap money to sign a veteran backup point guard, since Trier is not a proven NBA player on a good team.

I like Randle but I’m concerned about him defensively. I would like to pair KP with a good defensive big. Robinson will probably be the first big off the bench next year, but I hope we keep Kornet in the roster. Morant Or Rubio are my hope to address the PG. I like Trier and Frank together off the bench. I think they compliment each other as different style combo guards.

Defensively the Knicks have a problem with KP at PF. He has to play Center. It's absolutely ridiculous to have a 7'3" player with limited lateral agility on the perimeter. He is one of the top rim protectors in the NBA. He needs to play near the basket. The lack of talent on this franchise means we basically have to cater to him. Somehow we have to find a combo PF/C that is athletic enough to guard 3's but is bulky enough to guard 280lb centers. Oh yeah he also has to be able to grab 15 rebounds /48 and hit an open 3. All because KP won't play Center.

But doesn’t Vonleh already do most of those things ? He can guard all 3 front court positions and rebounds well, athletic, and hits open threes at 40%. He’s still only 23 too. He’s a combo big who can play PF/C depending on matchup. As far as non-star bigs he’s a pretty perfect fit.

You guys know we also have Mitchell Robimson, right? He can guard 4s and 5s with ease. He will need to bulk up a bit but between him and Vonleh we can get two different styles of complimentary players for KP. Vonleh is the best perimeter defender of the 3 right now.

I agree. Vonleh and Robinson are both great compliments to KP. Kornet is a decent 4th big. No need to change the bigs really. We need better guard play.

In the 3 seasons of KP .. KP best season was alongside Kanter, where KP average 33 minute, 22 pts, 6 rb, 1 ast, and 2 Blk.
KP is a poor PF and a poor center.
KP has a very low IQ as a big man .. KP is not a rim protector or glass cleaner .. Truth be said, KP never showed he had skills to be a NBA starter !!!
Vonleh has been performing very well to become a great asset to bring off the bench next season as a 2-Way PF.
MitchRob and Kornet are athletic young big men that may/will need a good bigman coach (Rasheed Wallace)to coach them thru a 82 game season.

??? trolling?

If you look at KP's body of work, he isn't that far off. KP does play good interior D though, but really poor perimeter D. He is not a good passer out of double teams and while he can put the ball on the floor, he is always at risk of having it stolen from him. KP's arriving on the scene was a string of a few 30 point games, before defenses started going to work on him, last season. Then he got injured. I really want him to do good, but there are question marks around his ability to learn new things like passing and adding to his game and handling the pressure as the go to option. Her still needs to show a quality counter move to being stripped by teams that play defense close to his body. KP would succeed in a structured offense, opposite of hero ball **** we are doing now.

I thought he was trolling calling him a poor rim protector and non-starter. Obviously he was one of the best rim protectors in the game and was a plus player on both side of the ball at age 22. He was a top 25 player before getting hurt both in basic stats and advanced stats. What he needs is a PG who can get him easy baskets and create plays. KP was being asked to create his own shots similar to how Melo did. With a good PG that can run pick and roll and move the ball, it changes everything for KP. What he did with a bad team around him and no PG was incredible. Look at our record before he got hurt and since then, it tells the story.

Rubio, we need a pass first high IQ pg that plays defense who isn't going to be deferential to gis like THJR.

He would be a top choice for me too.