TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:People are now resorting to speculative fantasies to grind their axe against Phil.
Goes a long way to show the type of "smart" basketball fans we have in NY

Are you suggesting that Perry and Mills don't need to rebuild relationships with players, agents and league execs? I havent heard or read where anyone actually claimed to believe that Lebron would have came to ny if Phil wasn't here. But if you call yourself a 'smart' fan and think Phil didn't hurt the Knick organization's rep with players, agents and other league execs then I think you need to redefine yourself as a fan. Pretty sure you called your shot when you posted here before Playa got banned.

Players pick highest AAV/longest deal/most financial security and best pathway to win/contend/start. That's pretty much it. I've seen you push this angle a thousand times Crush, that somehow Jackson tanked some players trade value. Well, the players trade value was sunk because he's a lousy player, or he's injured, or he's old, or his salary is a problem.

People keep citing how Doc Rivers was some kind of hero working for Donald Sterling and essentially running the team during a void when Sterling got ousted. What no one wants to talk about is EVERYONE knew Sterling's history and still worked for him, signed with the Clippers or signed an extension. It's not like it was some huge revelation.

Players say they give a **** about this kind of stuff because most of them are idiots. I loved Ewing as a player. But during a major labor war, he said " We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot money too" Which is one of the ****ing dumbest piece of **** things you can say in public to anyone. ( Not much better than Rip Hamilton ****ting on everyone for years in Detroit and bitching about his "job" when the city he played in was basically being financially gutted and destroyed and abandoned in front of the entire nation)

They don't. Chris Webber and Don Nelson had a reunion. LBJ and Dan Gilbert had a reunion. Matt Barnes **** all over Blake Griffin and then played with him not so long after. Melo and Pringles had a short reunion.

The best the GSW could do years ago was Corey Maggette. No one else wanted to take their money. On a bad roster. Later they got Kevin Durant. They had a lot of open money and they had a strong roster. Do you think it was some reputation buzz that got Durant there?

No one is going to turn down max money and max years because Phil Jackson did or did not do something to player X in the past. If said player has options, he's going to go to his best option, which is not the Knicks. Lance Thomas took out a full page ad blowing Melo in the press. You think a guy like him was going to turn down a 4 year deal over what slights he might have thought Jackson did or did not do to some player?

Your narrative MAKES NO SENSE TO HOW THE NBA MARKETPLACE ACTUALLY OPERATES.

What's the proof? Something LBJ said? You mean the same guy who sent Rich Paul to buy his drugs for him WITH A FUCKING CHECK? A MOTHERFUCKING CHECK? Are you kidding me? The same guy who spent a half hour on TV ****ting on his home city? The same guy who ran multiple rosters into the ground as LeGM? The same guy who tried to get the best coach in the NBA, Spolestra, fired for the crime of telling him that LBJ would need to actually play a different style of offense if they wanted to beat the prototypical Western Finals teams?

You want to believe a ****head who mocked Dirk in the Finals on national TV? Who PAID FOR HIS DRUGS WITH A FUCKING CHECK?

Think about how ****ing stupid you have to be, to pay for your PEDS by sending your guy ( not just some mule) to pay for your ****, WITH A FUCKING CHECK. Does LBJ need Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale to join his entourage to explain this **** to him?

Yes, it was Phil Jackson. Not the ****ty roster and no money issues.

"What the **** are you doing, man?" - Stringer Bell

"I'm taking notes" - Shamrock, holding Robert's Rules Of Orders in his hands as a guide

"Mother****er, are you taking notes ABOUT A CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY?" - Stringer Bell

Let's fix it a little,

"Mother****er, did you send your straight up homie to pay for your drugs WITH A CHECK?" - Stringer Bell

Yes, yes, LeBron James can't shut up and think it's a 40 degree day because of Zen Master. Fuck him.

To blame Phil for LeBron is absolutely ridiculous. LeBron has his chance in 2010 and took another road. He never had NY in his radar not once. People need to stop BSing about LeBron.

newyorknewyork wrote:During Phil's years the high calibre FAs stayed with their own teams. Only a few of the B level guys were allowed and or willing to leave their respective teams. Triangleay have not made the Knicks a very attractive place for FAs. But that wasn't the reason the top FAs didn't sign here and would be disingenuous to claim so.

Lebron went to Cleveland to win a chip for his home town. Then went to LA for the Hollywood scene and nice weather. With him working on upcoming film projects. Him saying it was either LA or NY means it was LAs to lose or screw it up with NY being the fall back option. Doesn't mean we were in a 50-50 race.

To be in the race one need to deserve it.
Knicks never deserve it and still don't.
So work first and cash after.
This how the world runs and rightfully so.

HofstraBBall wrote:Only the disillusioned would claim the Triangle and Uncle Phils ineptness did not discourage major free agents, with an ounce of sense, to come here. See a trend?

If Phil Jackson NEVER came to the Knicks, the franchise during that timeline would still not garner any elite free agents.

It was a team both cap locked and asset/resource depleted. Bad contracts saddled the team and there was only one first round draft pick in a three year period.

Phil Jackson did make things worse from what he inherited, but if Dolan hired someone else, it still would have been a bad roster/horrible cap sheet situation.

Try it. Remove Phil Jackson entirely and keep the constraints that Phil inherited on his first day and tell us how the Knicks could have gotten said elite free agents onto the roster. Try it.

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:During Phil's years the high calibre FAs stayed with their own teams. Only a few of the B level guys were allowed and or willing to leave their respective teams. Triangleay have not made the Knicks a very attractive place for FAs. But that wasn't the reason the top FAs didn't sign here and would be disingenuous to claim so.

Lebron went to Cleveland to win a chip for his home town. Then went to LA for the Hollywood scene and nice weather. With him working on upcoming film projects. Him saying it was either LA or NY means it was LAs to lose or screw it up with NY being the fall back option. Doesn't mean we were in a 50-50 race.

To be in the race one need to deserve it.
Knicks never deserve it and still don't.
So work first and cash after.
This how the world runs and rightfully so.

Can't say LA deserved to be in the race either. If we are talking about Bball reasons.

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Only the disillusioned would claim the Triangle and Uncle Phils ineptness did not discourage major free agents, with an ounce of sense, to come here. See a trend?

If Phil Jackson NEVER came to the Knicks, the franchise during that timeline would still not garner any elite free agents.

It was a team both cap locked and asset/resource depleted. Bad contracts saddled the team and there was only one first round draft pick in a three year period.

Phil Jackson did make things worse from what he inherited, but if Dolan hired someone else, it still would have been a bad roster/horrible cap sheet situation.

Try it. Remove Phil Jackson entirely and keep the constraints that Phil inherited on his first day and tell us how the Knicks could have gotten said elite free agents onto the roster. Try it.

Wait so your saying any other Prez would have came here and broken up the only team that won a playoff series since 1999, installed a dinosaur offense to build the future around and hired a coach with no experience to run it? Additionally they would have scrapped a conference finals team to acquire the likes of Samuel Dalembert, Jose Calderon, Wayne Ellington, Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and Shane Larkin. And to top it all off they would have all given max deal with NTC to a 30 year old star with injuries? GTHOH

Besides, I cant get past anyone who thought Phil and his ancient Triangle was the way to rebuild the future. To me that is just a special type of stupid. In the famous form of our esteemed TripleThreat I will conclude with an analogy. Trusting Phil Jackson with the future of your franchise is like entering a racing team into a modern day auto race and insisting your driver use a Model A. But keep defending Dolans lack of forward thinking.

HofstraBBall wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Only the disillusioned would claim the Triangle and Uncle Phils ineptness did not discourage major free agents, with an ounce of sense, to come here. See a trend?

If Phil Jackson NEVER came to the Knicks, the franchise during that timeline would still not garner any elite free agents.

It was a team both cap locked and asset/resource depleted. Bad contracts saddled the team and there was only one first round draft pick in a three year period.

Phil Jackson did make things worse from what he inherited, but if Dolan hired someone else, it still would have been a bad roster/horrible cap sheet situation.

Try it. Remove Phil Jackson entirely and keep the constraints that Phil inherited on his first day and tell us how the Knicks could have gotten said elite free agents onto the roster. Try it.

Wait so your saying any other Prez would have came here and broken up the only team that won a playoff series since 1999, installed a dinosaur offense to build the future around and hired a coach with no experience to run it? Additionally they would have scrapped a conference finals team to acquire the likes of Samuel Dalembert, Jose Calderon, Wayne Ellington, Lou Amundson, Alex Kirk and Shane Larkin. And to top it all off they would have all given max deal with NTC to a 30 year old star with injuries? GTHOH

Besides, I cant get past anyone who thought Phil and his ancient Triangle was the way to rebuild the future. To me that is just a special type of stupid. In the famous form of our esteemed TripleThreat I will conclude with an analogy. Trusting Phil Jackson with the future of your franchise is like entering a racing team into a modern day auto race and insisting your driver use a Model A. But keep defending Dolans lack of forward thinking.

If Phil Jackson NEVER came to the Knicks, the franchise during that timeline would still not garner any elite free agents.

It was a team both cap locked and asset/resource depleted. Bad contracts saddled the team and there was only one first round draft pick in a three year period.

Phil Jackson did make things worse from what he inherited, but if Dolan hired someone else, it still would have been a bad roster/horrible cap sheet situation.

Try it. Remove Phil Jackson entirely and keep the constraints that Phil inherited on his first day and tell us how the Knicks could have gotten said elite free agents onto the roster. Try it.