NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Why do we love to draft, trade for or sign injured players or players who are a ticking time bomb..?

Joakim, Stat, Cleanthony Early (shot himself), Eddy Curry (also known as Edwina Sparkles), Flu-son Chandler, Antonio McDyess, Sweetney, Jerome James, Bargnani, list goes on.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2788967-the-10-worst-nba-trades-of-the-last-decade#slide1
and the Knicks own 2 out of top 10. Yay.

The acquisitions of the aforementioned players all involved the loss of valuable assets and were accompanied by steep opportunity costs. What would we really be losing in the trade I proposed, for a player that was a consensus no.1 overall pick just 18 months ago?

The same was what you would lose for any trades involving Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi back in the day.

Really? Because aside for Bargnani and Brown, none of those were the centerpiece of any trade. And only the Knicks were stupid enough to give up anything of value for Bargnani who had already been 6 years into his career. Fultz is only 18 months into his career and has missed enough games where we can't definitely say what he is or isn't.

My point was that all of those were #1 picks and didnt stick in the NBA for their careers. Some of them out in 2-3 years. So your statement that he was a consensus overall #1 pick doesn't mean much other than that the consensus at least in the short term is wrong.

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:Fultz has a nerve problem and Butler. Your proposed trade does make sense given the prognosis. Even if good he will need time to get his head back on right. We have that.

I think the Fultz "nerve issue" is entirely mental but I think he'll be forced to accept the reality of his circumstances over time, which will allow the issue to be properly addressed. And with the mental health field (sports psychology) growing at the pace it is, I think those concerns can be alleviated over time. Fortunatately, we have the time for that to occur because our youth (as impressive as they are) will need 2-4 more seasons to reach their primes. There is no real downside to this type of move, especially since it saves us long-term money for the 2019 offseason and beyond. And should Fultz overcome his mental blocks, we have a guy who has a skillset that made him a consensus no.1 overall pick in a draft that was compared favorably to the 1996 and 2003 drafts that featured several generational talents.

There are too many variables. We could his issues are mental, but we just don't know. I would consider it if we got more $3 million in possible cap flexibility, but it's a huge gamble. You'd really need to have no expectations for him if he came.

But what do we really have to lose from taking a flier on him? We have no steady ballhandlers, penetrators or facilitators on the roster, so what harm is there in giving him a try? Worst case scenario, we save money for the 2019 offseason and could cut him in year 4 of his deal. Best csse scenario, we have a no.1 overall pick on cost control that we gave up next to nothing for.

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Why do we love to draft, trade for or sign injured players or players who are a ticking time bomb..?

Joakim, Stat, Cleanthony Early (shot himself), Eddy Curry (also known as Edwina Sparkles), Flu-son Chandler, Antonio McDyess, Sweetney, Jerome James, Bargnani, list goes on.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2788967-the-10-worst-nba-trades-of-the-last-decade#slide1
and the Knicks own 2 out of top 10. Yay.

The acquisitions of the aforementioned players all involved the loss of valuable assets and were accompanied by steep opportunity costs. What would we really be losing in the trade I proposed, for a player that was a consensus no.1 overall pick just 18 months ago?

The same was what you would lose for any trades involving Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi back in the day.

Really? Because aside for Bargnani and Brown, none of those were the centerpiece of any trade. And only the Knicks were stupid enough to give up anything of value for Bargnani who had already been 6 years into his career. Fultz is only 18 months into his career and has missed enough games where we can't definitely say what he is or isn't.

My point was that all of those were #1 picks and didnt stick in the NBA for their careers. Some of them out in 2-3 years. So your statement that he was a consensus overall #1 pick doesn't mean much other than that the consensus at least in the short term is wrong.

Cool...but what are we actually losing of value? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but once again: worse case scenario is what we save $3 million per year moving forward and could simply cut him 2 seasons from now; best case scenario is he pulls a Chauncey Billups now that he's in a new environment and distanced himself as being a former lottery pick. Not seeing much downside to pursuing him under these conditions but see a world of benefit if things work out.

If you don't see what we are losing of value when you propose a trade of Courtney Lee, Alonzo Trier and Noah Vonleh for 2 injured players, well then sure when did you apply to an FO position with the 76ers? Oh a whopping 3 million in savings?? Wow that extra is sure to attract all the top FAs in 2019.

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Why do we love to draft, trade for or sign injured players or players who are a ticking time bomb..?

Joakim, Stat, Cleanthony Early (shot himself), Eddy Curry (also known as Edwina Sparkles), Flu-son Chandler, Antonio McDyess, Sweetney, Jerome James, Bargnani, list goes on.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2788967-the-10-worst-nba-trades-of-the-last-decade#slide1
and the Knicks own 2 out of top 10. Yay.

The acquisitions of the aforementioned players all involved the loss of valuable assets and were accompanied by steep opportunity costs. What would we really be losing in the trade I proposed, for a player that was a consensus no.1 overall pick just 18 months ago?

The same was what you would lose for any trades involving Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi back in the day.

Really? Because aside for Bargnani and Brown, none of those were the centerpiece of any trade. And only the Knicks were stupid enough to give up anything of value for Bargnani who had already been 6 years into his career. Fultz is only 18 months into his career and has missed enough games where we can't definitely say what he is or isn't.

My point was that all of those were #1 picks and didnt stick in the NBA for their careers. Some of them out in 2-3 years. So your statement that he was a consensus overall #1 pick doesn't mean much other than that the consensus at least in the short term is wrong.

Cool...but what are we actually losing of value? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but once again: worse case scenario is what we save $3 million per year moving forward and could simply cut him 2 seasons from now; best case scenario is he pulls a Chauncey Billups now that he's in a new environment and distanced himself as being a former lottery pick. Not seeing much downside to pursuing him under these conditions but see a world of benefit if things work out.

If you don't see what we are losing of value when you propose a trade of Courtney Lee, Alonzo Trier and Noah Vonleh for 2 injured players, well then sure when did you apply to an FO position with the 76ers? Oh a whopping 3 million in savings?? Wow that extra is sure to attract all the top FAs in 2019.

It's the difference between being able to offer close to max and the actual max. I don't think we should be spending that type of money on any player but you people seem to think it should be in play.

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Why do we love to draft, trade for or sign injured players or players who are a ticking time bomb..?

Joakim, Stat, Cleanthony Early (shot himself), Eddy Curry (also known as Edwina Sparkles), Flu-son Chandler, Antonio McDyess, Sweetney, Jerome James, Bargnani, list goes on.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2788967-the-10-worst-nba-trades-of-the-last-decade#slide1
and the Knicks own 2 out of top 10. Yay.

The acquisitions of the aforementioned players all involved the loss of valuable assets and were accompanied by steep opportunity costs. What would we really be losing in the trade I proposed, for a player that was a consensus no.1 overall pick just 18 months ago?

The same was what you would lose for any trades involving Anthony Bennett, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi back in the day.

Really? Because aside for Bargnani and Brown, none of those were the centerpiece of any trade. And only the Knicks were stupid enough to give up anything of value for Bargnani who had already been 6 years into his career. Fultz is only 18 months into his career and has missed enough games where we can't definitely say what he is or isn't.

My point was that all of those were #1 picks and didnt stick in the NBA for their careers. Some of them out in 2-3 years. So your statement that he was a consensus overall #1 pick doesn't mean much other than that the consensus at least in the short term is wrong.

Cool...but what are we actually losing of value? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but once again: worse case scenario is what we save $3 million per year moving forward and could simply cut him 2 seasons from now; best case scenario is he pulls a Chauncey Billups now that he's in a new environment and distanced himself as being a former lottery pick. Not seeing much downside to pursuing him under these conditions but see a world of benefit if things work out.

If you don't see what we are losing of value when you propose a trade of Courtney Lee, Alonzo Trier and Noah Vonleh for 2 injured players, well then sure when did you apply to an FO position with the 76ers? Oh a whopping 3 million in savings?? Wow that extra is sure to attract all the top FAs in 2019.

It's the difference between being able to offer close to max and the actual max. I don't think we should be spending that type of money on any player but you people seem to think it should be in play.

you people :) ok :) glad to know we are all on the same team.
it should be in play only because of recent history with FA signings around the league and the results of that in the playoffs.

NardDogNation wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:Fultz has a nerve problem and Butler. Your proposed trade does make sense given the prognosis. Even if good he will need time to get his head back on right. We have that.

I think the Fultz "nerve issue" is entirely mental but I think he'll be forced to accept the reality of his circumstances over time, which will allow the issue to be properly addressed. And with the mental health field (sports psychology) growing at the pace it is, I think those concerns can be alleviated over time. Fortunatately, we have the time for that to occur because our youth (as impressive as they are) will need 2-4 more seasons to reach their primes. There is no real downside to this type of move, especially since it saves us long-term money for the 2019 offseason and beyond. And should Fultz overcome his mental blocks, we have a guy who has a skillset that made him a consensus no.1 overall pick in a draft that was compared favorably to the 1996 and 2003 drafts that featured several generational talents.

There are too many variables. We could his issues are mental, but we just don't know. I would consider it if we got more $3 million in possible cap flexibility, but it's a huge gamble. You'd really need to have no expectations for him if he came.

But what do we really have to lose from taking a flier on him? We have no steady ballhandlers, penetrators or facilitators on the roster, so what harm is there in giving him a try? Worst case scenario, we save money for the 2019 offseason and could cut him in year 4 of his deal. Best csse scenario, we have a no.1 overall pick on cost control that we gave up next to nothing for.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Marv wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I would offer Frank for Fultz

wow. what's giving you belief in fultz?

I think they're both projects and I would rather have the project with the higher ceiling

SC is right, you make that deal 100 times out of 100, and I really like Frank N as well.

Deal would be Frank N, some filler, a heavily protected first round pick ( which will convert to two 2nd round picks and has no chance of being conveyed as a first round pick) for Fultz and two 2nds.

The first round picks a "Phantom Pick" meant more for the sake of perception over the reality of the assets involved. The actual spaces moved will be pick flips worth only a few spaces in the actual drafts)

At this point, both sides ( Fultz and Philly) need a change of pure scenery.

NDA's are now common when dealing with celebrities and celebrity athletes. I'm not sure what the big deal about that is except the average person in the public is likely unaware that NDA's are pretty standard now.

You could simply walk their dog and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone who will. You could walk the dog for the players mom or sister and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone else. Gardener, housekeeper, nanny, personal trainer, chef, nutritionist, math tutors for the kids who come to the house, etc, etc.

Camera set ups are pretty common as well. While it backfires some instances like Aaron Hernandez, it usually offers a shield against liability in many other instances.

Here's something they teach at various rookie symposiums, if you are driving and you have a problem with someone in the car with you ( likely a woman, but could be anyone), then you stop in a well lit public place. You use the ATM there and get some cash out. You walk into a store and you buy something. You introduce yourself to the manager or clerk, if they recognize you, sign an autograph and take a picture. Ask the employee for the time. Repeat the time you are given out loud. Ask for todays date and day of the week. Repeat what you are given out loud. Wait in the parking lot, and then call a car service to pick up the person and take them home.

In many conflicts, esp with women, several guys were only cleared because they happened to use the ATM to get some cash and the time stamps contradicted the narrative presented against them. This contradicts what many athletes do, which is pay for everything in cash ( Every CC stub you sign is now your autograph and there are plenty of guys who don't want anyone tracking them by using a card )

Likely teams interested in getting Fultz at a low trade price are releasing this. No different than teams wanting a certain QB will release his low Wonderlic score privately to a journalist to scare off other teams.

Guys I've trained for the Combine, who I know would end up as first round picks, I've told them to hire a full time personal driver. You want to end up like Donte Stallworth and kill someone on the road? Even if it's a minor fender bender, once someone realizes you have fat cash in your pocket, how fast do you think their back is now shot up from the incident?

Professional athletes are not paranoid, some people are out to get them. The classic symposium story is about a player who banged a random thot and realized she was locked in a bathroom, using a plunger and rolled the used condom inside out and was jamming it inside her while he was trying to break down the door. Agents push for their high profile guys to get a vasectomy and put their swimmers on ice and storage in a professional facility. I suspect many people don't get why a guy would have an "entourage" In many cases, it's having more eyes to watch your back. It's having hands to get dirty so you don't have to ruin your career in one night.

During Linsanity, people would follow Lin's relatives all day in other countries. During the aftermath of OJ getting caught, tabloid guys would hang out by his daughter's school to try to get her to talk and say anything. They tried to pay cash and give gifts to his daughters classmates to lure her out towards them. Cameras aren't crazy, guys in the NBA/NFL/MLB who don't have them are crazy.

Fultz has a crazy mother. Who gives a ****. Everyone has someone insane in their family. Someone here probably has a grandmother who is a coke dealer and is bi-polar while talking to her pet donkey named Peaches Divine.

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:^

NDA's are now common when dealing with celebrities and celebrity athletes. I'm not sure what the big deal about that is except the average person in the public is likely unaware that NDA's are pretty standard now.

You could simply walk their dog and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone who will. You could walk the dog for the players mom or sister and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone else. Gardener, housekeeper, nanny, personal trainer, chef, nutritionist, math tutors for the kids who come to the house, etc, etc.

Camera set ups are pretty common as well. While it backfires some instances like Aaron Hernandez, it usually offers a shield against liability in many other instances.

Here's something they teach at various rookie symposiums, if you are driving and you have a problem with someone in the car with you ( likely a woman, but could be anyone), then you stop in a well lit public place. You use the ATM there and get some cash out. You walk into a store and you buy something. You introduce yourself to the manager or clerk, if they recognize you, sign an autograph and take a picture. Ask the employee for the time. Repeat the time you are given out loud. Ask for todays date and day of the week. Repeat what you are given out loud. Wait in the parking lot, and then call a car service to pick up the person and take them home.

In many conflicts, esp with women, several guys were only cleared because they happened to use the ATM to get some cash and the time stamps contradicted the narrative presented against them. This contradicts what many athletes do, which is pay for everything in cash ( Every CC stub you sign is now your autograph and there are plenty of guys who don't want anyone tracking them by using a card )

Likely teams interested in getting Fultz at a low trade price are releasing this. No different than teams wanting a certain QB will release his low Wonderlic score privately to a journalist to scare off other teams.

Guys I've trained for the Combine, who I know would end up as first round picks, I've told them to hire a full time personal driver. You want to end up like Donte Stallworth and kill someone on the road? Even if it's a minor fender bender, once someone realizes you have fat cash in your pocket, how fast do you think their back is now shot up from the incident?

Professional athletes are not paranoid, some people are out to get them. The classic symposium story is about a player who banged a random thot and realized she was locked in a bathroom, using a plunger and rolled the used condom inside out and was jamming it inside her while he was trying to break down the door. Agents push for their high profile guys to get a vasectomy and put their swimmers on ice and storage in a professional facility. I suspect many people don't get why a guy would have an "entourage" In many cases, it's having more eyes to watch your back. It's having hands to get dirty so you don't have to ruin your career in one night.

During Linsanity, people would follow Lin's relatives all day in other countries. During the aftermath of OJ getting caught, tabloid guys would hang out by his daughter's school to try to get her to talk and say anything. They tried to pay cash and give gifts to his daughters classmates to lure her out towards them. Cameras aren't crazy, guys in the NBA/NFL/MLB who don't have them are crazy.

Fultz has a crazy mother. Who gives a ****. Everyone has someone insane in their family. Someone here probably has a grandmother who is a coke dealer and is bi-polar while talking to her pet donkey named Peaches Divine.

So...can we get a 600+ word essay on Mudiay? You had no hesitation posting super-sized word salad dissertations trashing him. Now that he's playing well, crickets. Funny how people don't have the credibility to admit that maybe sometimes they're wrong.

Mudiay has always been a streaky player. He might be on something of a high at the moment, but the fall-off will happen soon thereafter. And to be honest, he looked doughy to me earlier in the season, which didn't surprise me. I think the dude doesn't love the game and is only doing it for a check. After all, there is a reason no other team tried besting an offer of middling 2nd round picks when we got him.

franco12 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:^

NDA's are now common when dealing with celebrities and celebrity athletes. I'm not sure what the big deal about that is except the average person in the public is likely unaware that NDA's are pretty standard now.

You could simply walk their dog and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone who will. You could walk the dog for the players mom or sister and you'll have to sign one or they'll hire someone else. Gardener, housekeeper, nanny, personal trainer, chef, nutritionist, math tutors for the kids who come to the house, etc, etc.

Camera set ups are pretty common as well. While it backfires some instances like Aaron Hernandez, it usually offers a shield against liability in many other instances.

Here's something they teach at various rookie symposiums, if you are driving and you have a problem with someone in the car with you ( likely a woman, but could be anyone), then you stop in a well lit public place. You use the ATM there and get some cash out. You walk into a store and you buy something. You introduce yourself to the manager or clerk, if they recognize you, sign an autograph and take a picture. Ask the employee for the time. Repeat the time you are given out loud. Ask for todays date and day of the week. Repeat what you are given out loud. Wait in the parking lot, and then call a car service to pick up the person and take them home.

In many conflicts, esp with women, several guys were only cleared because they happened to use the ATM to get some cash and the time stamps contradicted the narrative presented against them. This contradicts what many athletes do, which is pay for everything in cash ( Every CC stub you sign is now your autograph and there are plenty of guys who don't want anyone tracking them by using a card )

Likely teams interested in getting Fultz at a low trade price are releasing this. No different than teams wanting a certain QB will release his low Wonderlic score privately to a journalist to scare off other teams.

Guys I've trained for the Combine, who I know would end up as first round picks, I've told them to hire a full time personal driver. You want to end up like Donte Stallworth and kill someone on the road? Even if it's a minor fender bender, once someone realizes you have fat cash in your pocket, how fast do you think their back is now shot up from the incident?

Professional athletes are not paranoid, some people are out to get them. The classic symposium story is about a player who banged a random thot and realized she was locked in a bathroom, using a plunger and rolled the used condom inside out and was jamming it inside her while he was trying to break down the door. Agents push for their high profile guys to get a vasectomy and put their swimmers on ice and storage in a professional facility. I suspect many people don't get why a guy would have an "entourage" In many cases, it's having more eyes to watch your back. It's having hands to get dirty so you don't have to ruin your career in one night.

During Linsanity, people would follow Lin's relatives all day in other countries. During the aftermath of OJ getting caught, tabloid guys would hang out by his daughter's school to try to get her to talk and say anything. They tried to pay cash and give gifts to his daughters classmates to lure her out towards them. Cameras aren't crazy, guys in the NBA/NFL/MLB who don't have them are crazy.

Fultz has a crazy mother. Who gives a ****. Everyone has someone insane in their family. Someone here probably has a grandmother who is a coke dealer and is bi-polar while talking to her pet donkey named Peaches Divine.

So...can we get a 600+ word essay on Mudiay? You had no hesitation posting super-sized word salad dissertations trashing him. Now that he's playing well, crickets. Funny how people don't have the credibility to admit that maybe sometimes they're wrong.

Mudiay has always been a streaky player. He might be on something of a high at the moment, but the fall-off will happen soon thereafter. And to be honest, he looked doughy to me earlier in the season, which didn't surprise me. I think the dude doesn't love the game and is only doing it for a check. After all, there is a reason no other team tried besting an offer of middling 2nd round picks when we got him.

This is kinda insulting. Maybe Mudiay has started to figure things out. He is young, and most NBA pgs take a while to figure things out.

He's always shown flashes, and now is starting to put together some consistent play.

I think he might be out PG for the future.

....you are taking a few games this month and acting as though the rest of his career is irrelevant. That would be a prime example of (selection) bias.