CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Vmart wrote:

franco12 wrote:I don't understand some people here.

Fiz is the best coach we've had since Riley.

Full stop.

He is trying to win games, and I think also trying to figure out which players should be part of the long term future here.

I don't think there is one player right now on the team healthy who is a clear cut starter in the NBA.

You have a ton of middling, average, mixed talents. Some with upside, some with downsides.

Besides KP, who is the clear cut starters????

Fizz is just another stop gap coach. He sucks there is no system no plan.

So True .. Fiz is just another front-office puppet-coach without a system or defensive plan.
All the different starter lineup changes in 24 games has not got players on the same-page.

Glad someone seems to know. Yes this guy is Perry’s puppet and Perry scares me as a no talent GM. Who is know to give up on the wrong up and coming players. Oladipo and Harris are prime examples. This what he is doing to Ntlikina and this going to be disastrous mistake. As for Fizz he has no system so any player of Ntlikina’s ilk is going to struggle. He isn’t a street baller. Usually street ballers don’t play well in systems. And system players don’t play well in street ball. Ntlikina needs structure and Fiz has no structure. Street ball fans will be happy with Fizz but winning is about system.

What does a gm that has talent do? Do they take over a dysfunctional team and make it less functional? Do they take pennies on the dollar in every trade they make? Do they give out the worst contract in professional sports and two of the worst contracts in the NBA? Do they have lots of enemies in other front offices? Do they specialize in a lack of roster continuity? Do they alienate and almost trade star players because of exit meetings? Are they hard to reach when other league execs are interested in doing deals with them? Do they force their coaches to use an antiquated system? Do they fall asleep during pre-draft workouts? Do they leave town to attend a retirement ceremony when there is a. college tournament in their building and the team they built is in the lottery again? Do they have to master the accidental tank and in the process give out horrendous, cap killing contracts and make bad trades?
Talk about a gm having a puppet coach, what was Jeff? What happened to DFish when he wasn't a puppet?
The Knicks are being run like an NBA team now. Thank god Dolan had the sense to move on from Phil right after he signed his extension. I couldn't be more disappointed in Phil and the job he did. The guy was given autonomy and just wanted to cash a check and prove what a great system the triangle was. No room to say Perry sucks. The Knicks had the worst. Phil set the benchmark. Imagine a front office doing an exhaustive coaching search and hiring the most sought after candidate. That didn't happen with Phil. To be qualified to work for Phil you had to agree to run the triangle, be a yes man and allow Phil to interfere and hold workshops with your team.

I fell asleep half way through your post.

Were you in a gym watching a prospect workout? On the subway?

Phil fell asleep because after watching the likes of Jordan and Kobe there nothing else to see. I fall asleep you’d fall asleep.

Chandler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

You mention the only 3 players we have which can defend outside Frank.
Non of them is a starter in NBA yet.
In fact this team has no starting caliber players. Kanter and Timmy are close but not on contender team and both are bad defensibly.
This team can win only if they play even worth team or team which fall asleep.
This roster is not even 20% ready for competing.
What you trying to evaluate?

the same was true last year except for the time we had KP. We're doing far worse as a team. Our passing has regressed hugely (not something that KP padded numbers)

our defense has regressed even though we have some good defenders.

The team was just dismantled last year so it had to be worse.
I think we are close to be as bad as last year but who cares.
We just loading on data to make more educated decisions.
It is clear to everyone who understand the game that winning is not a goal except a process of winning the game is another data set collection.

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

How about this for a stat - what is our record with KP? Healthy, in the line up?

Maybe 500? We've played just about every team close. Been in just about every game at some point.

I see a team playing with passion, playing hard. I didn't see that last year.

What percentage of minutes have any player over 28 played for us this year vs. last year?

23% last year to 3% this year

franco12 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

How about this for a stat - what is our record with KP? Healthy, in the line up?

Maybe 500? We've played just about every team close. Been in just about every game at some point.

I see a team playing with passion, playing hard. I didn't see that last year.

What percentage of minutes have any player over 28 played for us this year vs. last year?

23% last year to 3% this year

+1 You took the words out of my mouth. Last year we were trying to win with veterans. Remember Jarret Jack taking mins from Frank? Now that's not developing squat. You cannot compare our stats with any degree of objectivity since our goals are so different so it would only make sense if our methods were different, which brings different results. This year is all about the youth. Those are facts.

Now as for my opinion, the team is a lot more interesting to watch this season. Punking them good teams while playing multiple rookies in crunch time and winning! Fiz now looks great at bringing the best out of players. But let's question his methods anyway, after all that's what makes for a good discussion. I have been impressed so far, he has me on the edge of my seat waiting for Frank to come back and kill it. I just hope that Frank is just as eager

knicks1248 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

You mention the only 3 players we have which can defend outside Frank.
Non of them is a starter in NBA yet.
In fact this team has no starting caliber players. Kanter and Timmy are close but not on contender team and both are bad defensibly.
This team can win only if they play even worth team or team which fall asleep.
This roster is not even 20% ready for competing.
What you trying to evaluate?

80% of NBA rosters are role players, what the knicks are missing is a couple of all stars, not starters. If we had KP with KD, or Kyrie, this team is to 5 in the NBA

How many games have we loss by one possession in where THJ was guarding a wing player that won the game, How bout one time.

WTF? I agree with you?!?!

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:I’m a Frank fan more because I hope. I’m not happy with his play and what looked like a bit of a statistically evident melt down. Part of the process is let a kid sit and then “reboot” it seems to be working with others.
Will it with frank? We’ll find out.
Will knicks do someting stupid? Won’t know until we get hindsight.
For what it’s worth, and it’s very little, Magic are actually decent on have a future. But I’m not going to pin that on Perry or the new assistant GM that replace him. Regarding Olidipo, they did not want to pay him.

I agree with a lot of this except the lame statement about Oladipo. The reality is they didn't know what they had, didn't develop and let him leave early, same with Tobias

If they had a chance of a do-over they'd keep Oladipo in a nanosecond

Clifford has essentially the same team as last year but is doing much, much better than Vogel (who I wanted here, yikes)
Budenholzer has the same Bucks team minus Jabari and has them playing phenomenally well (Yay Knicks for beating them anyway)

Coaches can make a huge difference even in a talent-driven league (See S.Kerr versus Mark Jackson as well)

they have an extremely difficult job. Xs and Os, player development, managing egos etc.

So far I give Fizz big credit in having the team play with passion. Yes, he has a bunch of young vets playing for their profession careers (they either turn it on now or play in EP, turkey, China etc) and a young of hungry rookies, but we have seen other coaches fail in the same context. Guys are playing hard and seem to genuinely like one another.

I also give him credit for doing a much better job of connecting with the players than Hornacek did. This doesn't mean you have to kiss player's ass; it means you need to be honest but respectful.

Having said that, I still see big problems with the team and the way he has them play. Honestly, at times, I think he's operating on a secret missive to intentionally lose

All the Olidipo stuff is debatable. perhaps they did not want to pay on potential and they did not know what they had via the metric of what to pay him? Perhaps they did not want to find out via free agency and risk losing him or have to match a contrct they were not comfortable with. If they knew what they had, they might have paid him. Perhaps a defined timeline would clarify this. But who has that kind of time??

Chandler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Anyone that thinks this year is about lineups, should stick to watching cricket.

Fiz has done a great job giving EVERYONE a look and fair shake thus far. He has done so and stayed competitive. Lets see the armchair geniuses suggest better lineups. For those mad that Frank is sitting, guess you were not listening at the beginning of the year when he said he will roll the ball out and let the best players play. What kind of respect would he have if he now changed the rules!!

Thank you. As I posted earlier- what is our record with KP? We're probably 500 or just a smidge over.

Add KD, and we're in first.

I love Fiz- I think he has done a great job of getting guys to overachieve.

What clear cut starter has he benched?

Before you fall too deeply in love consider the stats.

The team is playing worse on offense (passing and shooting) than last year (even though Fizz is rooted as a pg). We are dead last as a team in most passing stats. Mudiay is shooting better but passing worse (fewer assist more TOs). Yes he can look good here and there but he's averaging 3 assists and 2 TO a game roughly -- egads. that's our savior, our best passer? and he's not developing as a passer --he's regressing

More embarassing, we're far worse on defense (when Hornacek coached! let that sink in) This is so, even though this year we have Dot, Vonleh, and Mitch bring significantly more defensive energy than some of their predecessors

It's easy to like Fizz's passion (I do at least); and it's easy to see a lot of players playing hard for him (that's great). I am actually pulling for him, but that's because I'm a fan not because of the evidence in front of us.
the evidence suggests some very concerning aspects -- much more than lineups

His old GM said he couldn't close games; and we've seen that -- hopefully things improve

He alienated his best player in Memphis; Fizz said he learned from that, but KP has already called BS on him in a tweet, and Frank is probably not sending him any XMAS cards this year. ANd no, this isn't complaining about losing a starting role; i get that; Mud is playing better. This is about retarded DNPs when they could have used Frank's defense at least situationally (e.g., against Beale and the like) reinforcing and building Frank's confidence as a defensive stopper if nothing else. (How many games are we going to lose with THJ guarding the opponents best wing to end a game). And yes, I still think Fizz intended to humiliate Frank by gluing Frank to pine after 6 minutes when Frank did what coach wanted him to do --- attack the paint (albeit Frank could have done that better).

Whether it's KP or Frank, players have choices. The retreads will come here because we'll pay them. If we don't get some semblance of a system, culture, and real accountability the good guys are going to walk or find a way to force a trade.

Anyone who judges a new coach after 25 games and with a roster full of projects is an idiot! Anyone who thinks culture is developed in 25 games is a moron. We have a few on here.

As for accountability, Fiz has done nothing but hold players accountable.