[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

GameThread: Knicks beat Wiz
Author Thread
martin
Posts: 48094
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/4/2018  12:06 PM
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
AUTOADVERT
Chandler
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

12/4/2018  1:18 PM
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
martin
Posts: 48094
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/4/2018  2:11 PM
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Mostly your argument has to do with starting v not starting and the experience you gain from that. Need to take into consideration a boatload of other things: position (is Dot a SF or SG and where is he better suited), fouls (Knox got into foul trouble fairly easily against starters, same with Robinson), team dynamic (who plays better with whom), and production and I'm sure a whole bunch of other things.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Kemet
Posts: 20907
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/23/2015
Member: #6148

12/4/2018  6:55 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:Dotson is a stud
He really looks like a big piece going forward. I definitely was one to sell him short.
Me too after his summer league
Same. I thought they might move him with Lee.

After the SLG i was in doubt too ..
Dotson has been the most consistent performer we have 17pt 9 RBs.

Chandler
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

12/4/2018  7:19 PM
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Mostly your argument has to do with starting v not starting and the experience you gain from that. Need to take into consideration a boatload of other things: position (is Dot a SF or SG and where is he better suited), fouls (Knox got into foul trouble fairly easily against starters, same with Robinson), team dynamic (who plays better with whom), and production and I'm sure a whole bunch of other things.

Do you think Hezonja will be in the NBA after this year? be honest.

this guy deserves no minutes at the expense of the others. He should only be coming in if we need size and the other guys have fouled out or are gassed. We are trying to develop Dot and Knox. they need minutes. THJ one could argue deserves time too as his game still needs some polish.

IMO this is a request from Perry to Fiz to satisfy Perry's ego.

Apparently Hezonja and Mudiay need minutes to build their confidence -- or so Fizz logic goes. But Frank who is young, plays hard, and contributes on D and who is undoubtedly having confidence issues needs to sit and watch (100% of the time)

Do you think there's rhyme or reason to that? No minutes. What is he developing other than ass-callouses

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
Cartman718
Posts: 28424
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/12/2007
Member: #1694

12/5/2018  9:09 AM
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Mostly your argument has to do with starting v not starting and the experience you gain from that. Need to take into consideration a boatload of other things: position (is Dot a SF or SG and where is he better suited), fouls (Knox got into foul trouble fairly easily against starters, same with Robinson), team dynamic (who plays better with whom), and production and I'm sure a whole bunch of other things.

Do you think Hezonja will be in the NBA after this year? be honest.

this guy deserves no minutes at the expense of the others. He should only be coming in if we need size and the other guys have fouled out or are gassed. We are trying to develop Dot and Knox. they need minutes. THJ one could argue deserves time too as his game still needs some polish.

IMO this is a request from Perry to Fiz to satisfy Perry's ego.

Apparently Hezonja and Mudiay need minutes to build their confidence -- or so Fizz logic goes. But Frank who is young, plays hard, and contributes on D and who is undoubtedly having confidence issues needs to sit and watch (100% of the time)

Do you think there's rhyme or reason to that? No minutes. What is he developing other than ass-callouses

Need someone at least 6-8 to START at SF.
Frank...doesn't have the strength right now...maybe next year
Knox...doesn't have the strength or the defensive chops right now...maybe in a year or two.
Dot...too short and will be overmatched all the time in this league
Fiz doesn't WANT to start Hezonja...but Hezonja is smart enough to not pick up ticky tack fouls...and is starting to play SOME d and is providing SOME good mins at the moment.

I don't think Fiz has a choice...anyone else he starts at that spot will get slammed. What would be awesome is to see Knox finally getting it in his head and starting there before the end of the season.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
martin
Posts: 48094
Alba Posts: 106
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/5/2018  12:35 PM
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Mostly your argument has to do with starting v not starting and the experience you gain from that. Need to take into consideration a boatload of other things: position (is Dot a SF or SG and where is he better suited), fouls (Knox got into foul trouble fairly easily against starters, same with Robinson), team dynamic (who plays better with whom), and production and I'm sure a whole bunch of other things.

Do you think Hezonja will be in the NBA after this year? be honest.

this guy deserves no minutes at the expense of the others. He should only be coming in if we need size and the other guys have fouled out or are gassed. We are trying to develop Dot and Knox. they need minutes. THJ one could argue deserves time too as his game still needs some polish.

IMO this is a request from Perry to Fiz to satisfy Perry's ego.

Apparently Hezonja and Mudiay need minutes to build their confidence -- or so Fizz logic goes. But Frank who is young, plays hard, and contributes on D and who is undoubtedly having confidence issues needs to sit and watch (100% of the time)

Do you think there's rhyme or reason to that? No minutes. What is he developing other than ass-callouses

Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.

Your above is just not realistic, you just can't sit a guy who you think will NOT be on the team next year. Half the team wouldn't play in the scenario.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Chandler
Posts: 23107
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

12/5/2018  1:14 PM
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:What awful Defense Wiz played down the stretch! Beal seems to have adapted Paul Pierces early career “FuckFace” attitude and Wall gets on his heels and chills out. Talented group but what a collection of attitude. They bring Austin Rivers to that group? They really should bring Melo “home” and perhaps see if Marbury has anything left. At least he might just sit with a towel over his head!
While the rally to end was nice I saw a Wiz team allow them back in the game more than anything. Knicks turnovers cost the game. sorry, not sold on Mudiay as much as media would like me to.

I wouldn't be too negative (or positive) on the comeback effort. There are many players and teams that can't hit a wide open shot when the pressure is on. Pwe have shown that we at least have players who can hit a clutch shot (Yay Dot!!). Tempering that, I suspect that, since the Wiz were in the penalty, they didn't want to play too aggressive and risk fouls (charity stripe plus clock stops)

having said that, knicks still have plenty of problems. 3d quarter we folded in the face of defensive pressure. Guards picking up their dribble, never once beat pressure that I recall. So while I liked Mudiay hitting shots in the comeback, the 3d quarter showed he's far from being a floor general. Our "best passer" is averaging about 4 assists a game over his career and under 3 this season, with a high turnover rate. (His shooting has certainly improved to his credit )

We creamed the Wiz on the boards (+17) and if you just looked at that stat you would have to think we'd win in a blow out just because of the differential it would create in shot opportunities.
but then you see we didn't move the ball well (16 TOs to 20 assists; whereas wiz had 10 TOs to 30 assist) and realize we gave that advantage right back

For some reason we continue to play (even start) Hezonja. I have seen nothing on the court to justify this patience as a basketball decision. It's very hard to explain Hezonja minutes who brings nothing on either end, while sitting Frank who at least brings great D (and who we should be developing!). Most likely scenario is Perry's ego, and Mill's agenda. Or it could be that Fizz is simply not being a very good head coach. I like Fizz's enthusiasm but the stats are concerning. He is supposed to be defensive-minded -- yet Hornacek had better defensive stats (let that sink in, Hornacek had better stats with Melo, Beasley, etc. -- no Vonlehs, Mitch, Dot's on the court) IIRC correctly Fizdale was a pg, yet our passing is essentially league worst (and way worse than we had with Hornacek). Following this, we're like last in EFG% and again way worse than Hornacek


So while I love a bunch of our youths, I am super skeptical about our style of play, and where we are investing energy in development.

Generally you can say that about any potential SF starter for the Knicks.

What's your solution if it isn't Hezonja and why?

I'd play Knox if we needed or wanted length, and Dot or THJ if we were going small. I see them all in our future, and 2 out of three need time to develop. I frankly don't see hezonja in the league next year (assuming we keep him until the end of the year). I would like to see him gone when we sign Trier. Perhaps they are playing Hezonja in the hope he shows enough to net something in a trade but that seems like a longshot. Anyone could have had him this Summer, and he's done nothing since (unlike Vonleh or Mudiay [to a good but lesser degree])

Both Dot and Knox got starts and both played fairly poorly, neither distinguished themselves. They are doing pretty good off bench over past few games, kudos to them. If they master that, they get to start.

Some guys are better off starting in a lineup, KP for example, even if he did not "earn" it. Dot and Knox are OK off bench IMHO to develop into what they can become.

Hezonja has played poorly too. The difference is we're giving him minutes and chance to play alongside (ostensibly) the better players. That's an opportunity cost. Makes no sense. Hezonja will not be with the team.

Of course Knox and Dot will struggle. They have barely any NBA experience and this is the year/time to get it. Hezonja has had plenty of time and still doesn't get it. It's not from lack of experience. It's because 90% of the time he's on the court, his brain is mush.

I know I'm being repetitive but I don't think you can explain Hezonja as a basketball decision. If Hezonja turns it around and shows some game (as Vonleh has done [btw was a huge skeptic of that too and am happy I was wrong]) I'll be happy to admit how stupid I was about him. As of the moment, IMO he is this year's version of Beasley or D.Williams -- high picks, tons of talent, couldn't translate to success on the floor

Mostly your argument has to do with starting v not starting and the experience you gain from that. Need to take into consideration a boatload of other things: position (is Dot a SF or SG and where is he better suited), fouls (Knox got into foul trouble fairly easily against starters, same with Robinson), team dynamic (who plays better with whom), and production and I'm sure a whole bunch of other things.

Do you think Hezonja will be in the NBA after this year? be honest.

this guy deserves no minutes at the expense of the others. He should only be coming in if we need size and the other guys have fouled out or are gassed. We are trying to develop Dot and Knox. they need minutes. THJ one could argue deserves time too as his game still needs some polish.

IMO this is a request from Perry to Fiz to satisfy Perry's ego.

Apparently Hezonja and Mudiay need minutes to build their confidence -- or so Fizz logic goes. But Frank who is young, plays hard, and contributes on D and who is undoubtedly having confidence issues needs to sit and watch (100% of the time)

Do you think there's rhyme or reason to that? No minutes. What is he developing other than ass-callouses

Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.

Your above is just not realistic, you just can't sit a guy who you think will NOT be on the team next year. Half the team wouldn't play in the scenario.

Ok I have a new signature all intended for good-natured fun

My suspicion is he was starting Hezonja because H seemed to play well off Kanter -- or at least that's when they were seeing the best of H

Having said that, he's played like crap, crazy shots, poor D, complains about everything even at the expense ofgetting back on D

He's showing us nothing different than what he showed Orlando and we are wasting opportunities when he plays. He's just a JAG and should fill in as needed when guys are gassed or hurt. (My conspiracy theory is Fizz is keeping him in because Perry still things he was right to draft him)

Fizz psychology that a 3-4 year vet needs minutes or starting to gain confidence, but a rookie or sophomore should ride pine (in a rebuild year!) remains questionable to me

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
GameThread: Knicks beat Wiz

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.com All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.