“They gave him enough chances,’’ the Atlantic Division scout said. “The kid is very unaggressive and soft — no instincts to play point guard. He can make the pocket pass if it’s there, but sometimes it’s stolen. He’s playing horribly right now. I actually feel bad for the kid.”

These quotes are really damning for Frank. The quotes for Knox say he looks for his shot too much. In positionless basketball you always look to be in a position to shot.

JesseDark wrote:https://nypost.com/2018/11/29/scouts-execs-shred-knicks-1st-rounders-as-soft-and-worse/

“They gave him enough chances,’’ the Atlantic Division scout said. “The kid is very unaggressive and soft — no instincts to play point guard. He can make the pocket pass if it’s there, but sometimes it’s stolen. He’s playing horribly right now. I actually feel bad for the kid.”

These quotes are really damning for Frank. The quotes for Knox say he looks for his shot too much. In positionless basketball you always look to be in a position to shot.

Same too for this year's crop

We're a very frustrated fanbase and want the team to succeed so it's understandable but these chicken-little pieces are just feeding into emotions

I'd be far more worried about our FO and coaching staff because they're not 20 year olds and are supposed to know what they're doing

Knixkik wrote:

JesseDark wrote:https://nypost.com/2018/11/29/scouts-execs-shred-knicks-1st-rounders-as-soft-and-worse/

“They gave him enough chances,’’ the Atlantic Division scout said. “The kid is very unaggressive and soft — no instincts to play point guard. He can make the pocket pass if it’s there, but sometimes it’s stolen. He’s playing horribly right now. I actually feel bad for the kid.”

These quotes are really damning for Frank. The quotes for Knox say he looks for his shot too much. In positionless basketball you always look to be in a position to shot.

Definitely some red flags on Frank. As for Knox, these are all correctable things which will come in time. I have no concern about Knox. He has shown flashes and his talent is big time. He just needs time to put it together. He's a year younger than most rookies. He's not ready, but you know every coach in the league would love to have him and knows his talent is elite.

I said this when we drafted Frank - everyone fell in love with his measurements and the projections... he hadn't done much in France meaning he barely played. His minutes were low. I said when we drafted him it was essentially the same as what happened with Marvin Williams... young, long guy on a championship squad who basically didn't amount to anything

Welcome to the new world of newspaper writing...as in no writing.

SupremeCommander wrote:Does anyone here realisticallly think Frank is going to average 35 mpg once in his career? I am not in a rush to trade him... points can take longer to develop. That said -- he hasn't shown me anything that makes me think he's an NBA starter

Knox is soft too and those quote are damning but I mean I've at least seen glimpses of dominance from him

Probably not big minutes for Frank, but i see him as a good role player/combo guard who will get 24 mpg most nights and his defensive abilities will be extremely valuable. He is a useful player as long as he even improves his offense just slightly, which i'm sure he will.

As for Knox, he just needs to take the ball to the basket. He's so talented, he will learn how to use that talent. He can get to the basket and to the free throw line at will. He needs to take contact and get to the free throw line. He's a smooth athlete and smooth shooter. Shooting won't be a problem for him, he just needs to be aggressive and not settle. I don't care what the numbers show so far this year, i see a complete scorer in the making.

Cartman718 wrote:Now some excerpts and their analysis...
According to those interviewed, Knox settles too fast for 3-point shots and refuses to move the ball. Ntilikina was cited for not having the wherewithal to play point guard, and one person even called the Frenchman an overrated defender. The word “soft" was used to describe both potential linchpins to the Knicks’ future.

Knox settling for 3 point shots...eye test says you have to agree with this...he needs to drive more and he was doing a lot more of that in summer league, but when he was faced with NBA bodies...he kinda settled on the perimeter. Like so many people on the forum have said...NEEDS MORE MUSCLE. It'll come and with that, so will the aggressiveness. He's already shown that when he's physically at par with the opponents physical strength...he will drive a lot to the basket and try to find the open man.
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2018/stats says...2.3 assists per game. Not bad for a kid, will get better. Soft...really? Dude killed it against opponents his age. 1 steal per game too.

As far as Frank...not being able to play PG....to some extent I agree, he's not your prototypical NBA PG racking up double digit assists per game. But he does have hockey assists. He LOVES to initiate the passing coaxing his teammates to do the same where passing becomes part of the natural flow of the game leading to easier shots, better looks. But he's only one person on the floor.

Let's examine who is on the same page as him. Hardaway...on some days yes. And on other days...he's I am getting my shot-up-away. Not consistent enough to get a passing rhythm going.

Dotson...a resounding yes. Has no problems passing the ball consistently whether for a direct or hockey assist. Methinks Fiz benched only to figure out who to cut when Trier is signed.

Which brings us to Trier...The only time you see Trier passing the ball is when Enes or Mitch are right under the basket and Trier has the opportunity to pass around a double team or some type of wrap-around pass. Otherwise...it's a bee-line to the basket. That's not a bad trait to have...if you are a bench player. You are not making anyone better around you.

Burke...a mini Hardaway...I am getting my shot up around a center's pick to retaliate when I was just scored on. The only times Burke has played 30+ mins and had an average of 10 assists per game...both contests against Boston. Are you surprised...I am not. Kyrie's defense sucks so bad he made it easier for Burke to find people. In other contests around the same mins...Burke averaged 3 assists per game. So in other words, if you play any kind of D on this guy..something in his offense is going to be off. He's definitely NOT the future PG of this team.

So what should Fiz do? The clear answer is play Frank and WholeTeamDot together. They both play D, they play well off each other, they love hockey assists just as much as direct assists and they put team first...all the time. In a world where KP is the most dominant player on the team, these are the types of players that will make your starting unit better. Not Trier, not Burke, and (sigh) probably not an inconsistent Hardaway.

Trier creates plays though. In a world around KP we need at least 1 player who creates plays and can get easy baskets for others. Frank and Dotson bring the unselfish play and defensive ability, but we need someone to get into the teeth of the defense. They will move the ball, but will that movement turn into a good shot if the defense isn't being challenged? That's why they are role players. At least Trier has the upside to break down a defense and get KP a dunk. Or run the P&R.

“When he got in the [76ers] game, he was embarrassed by [J.J.] Redick," he said. “Redick got loose for two jumpers and then they put him on [T.J.] McConnell and he drove around him. Other scouts tell me he’s a great defender. I don’t see a great defender. He can be disruptive with length, but he’s slow to react. He’s a better-than-average defender, but I think his confidence is shot on offense. His passes aren’t doing anything."

If this idiot of a scout had bothered to simply look at some video tweets from KnicksFilmSchool on Frank's passing and defense, he'd know better. So ONE scout thinks he's soft and ONE scout (probably the same one) thinks he just a 'better than average defender'...well doesn't that mean that the majority of other scouts look at him in a more positive light? Why does this ONE anonymous scout's opinion have so much value over the combined opinions of all other scouts? SMH.

But will Berman ever mention that...no, coz it doesn't sell papers.
Maybe this is Shrek's attempt at getting back at Fiz for calling him out.

Has Frank regressed over the last 10 games, yes sure. Does he need a pep talk...maybe...maybe not...he does seem to have thick skin. Last year's season showed that when you call him out, he responds with much better performances. Remember the Lakers game, Pacers game, Cavs game?

Dude has the fire and Fiz has seen it, no doubt that Frank will pick it back up. I don't know if it's flu or fatigue leading to the lethargy in the 76ers game (he did get beat badly by Reddick and McConnell...but didn't Mudiay n Hardaway get beat as well..after all Frank didn't start the game when Reddick went off).

Does anyone feel that he can't bounce back after 2 days of rest at home? I think Frank understands the length of the season and how he had to adjust last season...things may be down now for him...but better days are coming soon.

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Now some excerpts and their analysis...
According to those interviewed, Knox settles too fast for 3-point shots and refuses to move the ball. Ntilikina was cited for not having the wherewithal to play point guard, and one person even called the Frenchman an overrated defender. The word “soft" was used to describe both potential linchpins to the Knicks’ future.

Knox settling for 3 point shots...eye test says you have to agree with this...he needs to drive more and he was doing a lot more of that in summer league, but when he was faced with NBA bodies...he kinda settled on the perimeter. Like so many people on the forum have said...NEEDS MORE MUSCLE. It'll come and with that, so will the aggressiveness. He's already shown that when he's physically at par with the opponents physical strength...he will drive a lot to the basket and try to find the open man.
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2018/stats says...2.3 assists per game. Not bad for a kid, will get better. Soft...really? Dude killed it against opponents his age. 1 steal per game too.

As far as Frank...not being able to play PG....to some extent I agree, he's not your prototypical NBA PG racking up double digit assists per game. But he does have hockey assists. He LOVES to initiate the passing coaxing his teammates to do the same where passing becomes part of the natural flow of the game leading to easier shots, better looks. But he's only one person on the floor.

Let's examine who is on the same page as him. Hardaway...on some days yes. And on other days...he's I am getting my shot-up-away. Not consistent enough to get a passing rhythm going.

Dotson...a resounding yes. Has no problems passing the ball consistently whether for a direct or hockey assist. Methinks Fiz benched only to figure out who to cut when Trier is signed.

Which brings us to Trier...The only time you see Trier passing the ball is when Enes or Mitch are right under the basket and Trier has the opportunity to pass around a double team or some type of wrap-around pass. Otherwise...it's a bee-line to the basket. That's not a bad trait to have...if you are a bench player. You are not making anyone better around you.

Burke...a mini Hardaway...I am getting my shot up around a center's pick to retaliate when I was just scored on. The only times Burke has played 30+ mins and had an average of 10 assists per game...both contests against Boston. Are you surprised...I am not. Kyrie's defense sucks so bad he made it easier for Burke to find people. In other contests around the same mins...Burke averaged 3 assists per game. So in other words, if you play any kind of D on this guy..something in his offense is going to be off. He's definitely NOT the future PG of this team.

So what should Fiz do? The clear answer is play Frank and WholeTeamDot together. They both play D, they play well off each other, they love hockey assists just as much as direct assists and they put team first...all the time. In a world where KP is the most dominant player on the team, these are the types of players that will make your starting unit better. Not Trier, not Burke, and (sigh) probably not an inconsistent Hardaway.

Trier creates plays though. In a world around KP we need at least 1 player who creates plays and can get easy baskets for others. Frank and Dotson bring the unselfish play and defensive ability, but we need someone to get into the teeth of the defense. They will move the ball, but will that movement turn into a good shot if the defense isn't being challenged? That's why they are role players. At least Trier has the upside to break down a defense and get KP a dunk. Or run the P&R.

Trier does not create plays for anyone but himself consistently. Sure he's had some nice assist games but some terrible ducks too. As far as getting into the teeth of the defense, picture a fast break with KP and Mitch in the lineup. Who will win that foot race...the guards. Between KP and Mitch who will win that foot race, my money would be on Mitch.

Passing the ball to KP as a trailer for a drive by dunk or for a straight on pull up 3 wasn't a problem last season, why would that be the case now.

As for half court, look at the Brow and Boogie when they were on Pelicans together. Or further back to Admiral and Duncan. If Mitch lives up to potential shown, that's where you press your advantage in pocket passes or PNR passes to post. A 5 to 8 footer jump hook or a KP to Mitch and vice versa post pass will always have better FG% than a drive to the paint by Trier. How many times did he get blocked by Philly in the paint and didn't bother finding anyone?

Consistency is key, not saying Trier can't get there, but no one's asking him to be off the team right? In the future, you can easily envision him on the floor at times with either WholeTeamDot or Frank off the floor (but not both) and KP/Mitch in. You need a consistent scorer on the bench too, and Trier fits that mould nicely. He's already a more consistent scorer than Burke, and many of us felt Burke could fit that. Let Trier abuse other team's benches, which we know he clearly can.

Revision on my above post...forgot to mention Mudiay. That's the one guy I feel if he becomes consistent, he can displace Frank or WholeTeamDot from a future starting lineup. Knicks have options depending on who progresses at what speed... a good thing

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:Now some excerpts and their analysis...
According to those interviewed, Knox settles too fast for 3-point shots and refuses to move the ball. Ntilikina was cited for not having the wherewithal to play point guard, and one person even called the Frenchman an overrated defender. The word “soft" was used to describe both potential linchpins to the Knicks’ future.

Knox settling for 3 point shots...eye test says you have to agree with this...he needs to drive more and he was doing a lot more of that in summer league, but when he was faced with NBA bodies...he kinda settled on the perimeter. Like so many people on the forum have said...NEEDS MORE MUSCLE. It'll come and with that, so will the aggressiveness. He's already shown that when he's physically at par with the opponents physical strength...he will drive a lot to the basket and try to find the open man.
http://www.nba.com/summerleague/2018/stats says...2.3 assists per game. Not bad for a kid, will get better. Soft...really? Dude killed it against opponents his age. 1 steal per game too.

As far as Frank...not being able to play PG....to some extent I agree, he's not your prototypical NBA PG racking up double digit assists per game. But he does have hockey assists. He LOVES to initiate the passing coaxing his teammates to do the same where passing becomes part of the natural flow of the game leading to easier shots, better looks. But he's only one person on the floor.

Let's examine who is on the same page as him. Hardaway...on some days yes. And on other days...he's I am getting my shot-up-away. Not consistent enough to get a passing rhythm going.

Dotson...a resounding yes. Has no problems passing the ball consistently whether for a direct or hockey assist. Methinks Fiz benched only to figure out who to cut when Trier is signed.

Which brings us to Trier...The only time you see Trier passing the ball is when Enes or Mitch are right under the basket and Trier has the opportunity to pass around a double team or some type of wrap-around pass. Otherwise...it's a bee-line to the basket. That's not a bad trait to have...if you are a bench player. You are not making anyone better around you.

Burke...a mini Hardaway...I am getting my shot up around a center's pick to retaliate when I was just scored on. The only times Burke has played 30+ mins and had an average of 10 assists per game...both contests against Boston. Are you surprised...I am not. Kyrie's defense sucks so bad he made it easier for Burke to find people. In other contests around the same mins...Burke averaged 3 assists per game. So in other words, if you play any kind of D on this guy..something in his offense is going to be off. He's definitely NOT the future PG of this team.

So what should Fiz do? The clear answer is play Frank and WholeTeamDot together. They both play D, they play well off each other, they love hockey assists just as much as direct assists and they put team first...all the time. In a world where KP is the most dominant player on the team, these are the types of players that will make your starting unit better. Not Trier, not Burke, and (sigh) probably not an inconsistent Hardaway.

Trier creates plays though. In a world around KP we need at least 1 player who creates plays and can get easy baskets for others. Frank and Dotson bring the unselfish play and defensive ability, but we need someone to get into the teeth of the defense. They will move the ball, but will that movement turn into a good shot if the defense isn't being challenged? That's why they are role players. At least Trier has the upside to break down a defense and get KP a dunk. Or run the P&R.

Trier does not create plays for anyone but himself consistently. Sure he's had some nice assist games but some terrible ducks too. As far as getting into the teeth of the defense, picture a fast break with KP and Mitch in the lineup. Who will win that foot race...the guards. Between KP and Mitch who will win that foot race, my money would be on Mitch.

Passing the ball to KP as a trailer for a drive by dunk or for a straight on pull up 3 wasn't a problem last season, why would that be the case now.

As for half court, look at the Brow and Boogie when they were on Pelicans together. Or further back to Admiral and Duncan. If Mitch lives up to potential shown, that's where you press your advantage in pocket passes or PNR passes to post. A 5 to 8 footer jump hook or a KP to Mitch and vice versa post pass will always have better FG% than a drive to the paint by Trier. How many times did he get blocked by Philly in the paint and didn't bother finding anyone?

Consistency is key, not saying Trier can't get there, but no one's asking him to be off the team right? In the future, you can easily envision him on the floor at times with either WholeTeamDot or Frank off the floor (but not both) and KP/Mitch in. You need a consistent scorer on the bench too, and Trier fits that mold nicely. He's already a more consistent scorer than Burke, and many of us felt Burke could fit that. Let Trier abuse other team's benches, which we know he clearly can.

Revision on my above post...forgot to mention Mudiay. That's the one guy I feel if he becomes consistent, he can displace Frank or WholeTeamDot from a future starting lineup. Knicks have options depending on who progresses at what speed... a good thing

Trier only creates for himself, but he's a rookie, and we see the flashes. He can make plays, he just needs to learn what to do when he gets to his spots. His ability to create and his aggressive nature are things the other guards don't have. Mudiay and Burke have the ability to get to their mid-range spots, but haven't shown the ability to draw defense and dish. Defenses know they will just pull up from mid-range. Trier has. He just has to do it more often. He can get to the basket at will and pull big men away from who they are guarding.

Disagree. Mudiay is doing that nicely, dishing. But he's playing with Mitch who is still raw and Enes who prefers a one-on-three contest under the basket.