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The 2019 Draft
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Nalod
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4/15/2019  2:08 PM
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

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CrushAlot
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4/16/2019  3:05 PM
Nalod wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

Maybe if Frank had Smart’s heart the Knicks would never look to trade him for cap space. I don’t see Frank or many nba players developing the heart and tenacity Smart plays with. If Frank has that he might be the best prospect in his draft class.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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4/16/2019  4:06 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

Maybe if Frank had Smart’s heart the Knicks would never look to trade him for cap space. I don’t see Frank or many nba players developing the heart and tenacity Smart plays with. If Frank has that he might be the best prospect in his draft class.

Can we really call Frank's lack of progress "Heart"? I mean we really don't know the guy. WE read of his high work ethic and its not like he does not try.
He does not preen or scream when makes a good play, but that does not mean he does not care. Playing defense requires heart. Steals require heart.
While I might be a fan boy of him to my eye his ego/confidence is not strong and he looks physically immature still. I have said this before that in person Knox and Frank look very much like teenagers. A good progression in his rookie season he played 78 games, this past he was beset with injuries. A bad shoulder would effect shooting.
Excuse or a reason? I don't know. Smart is a beast. He played 2 years in college and was a tank coming out of school.

You don't show a fool a job half done!
JesseDark
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4/16/2019  6:39 PM
Who do you like if we get the 5th pick? I would like Jarrett Culver the SG out of Texas Tech.
Bring back dee-fense
Cartman718
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4/16/2019  9:54 PM
JesseDark wrote:Who do you like if we get the 5th pick? I would like Jarrett Culver the SG out of Texas Tech.

hell no...5th pick... I am absolutely trading down to get Cam Johnson

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Chandler
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4/17/2019  10:52 AM
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

Maybe if Frank had Smart’s heart the Knicks would never look to trade him for cap space. I don’t see Frank or many nba players developing the heart and tenacity Smart plays with. If Frank has that he might be the best prospect in his draft class.

Can we really call Frank's lack of progress "Heart"? I mean we really don't know the guy. WE read of his high work ethic and its not like he does not try.
He does not preen or scream when makes a good play, but that does not mean he does not care. Playing defense requires heart. Steals require heart.
While I might be a fan boy of him to my eye his ego/confidence is not strong and he looks physically immature still. I have said this before that in person Knox and Frank look very much like teenagers. A good progression in his rookie season he played 78 games, this past he was beset with injuries. A bad shoulder would effect shooting.
Excuse or a reason? I don't know. Smart is a beast. He played 2 years in college and was a tank coming out of school.

I wouldn't question Frank's heart; I would question Fizz's brain

Look at Celtics. They know Smart has limited offense. He's a good interior passer and a tenacious defender and they roll with that, even though Smart can sometime otherwise get them in trouble with his shots and his temper(a bit of Ron Artest)

We on the other hand crushed Franks confidence and took away his one strength moving him off of defending the point where he has a huge advantage and instead put him on 2s and 3s. He'll now end up on some team like San Antonio or Pacers and make us look foolish while we flounder around with Mudiay, DSJ and god knows who else

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
CrushAlot
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4/17/2019  11:07 AM
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

Maybe if Frank had Smart’s heart the Knicks would never look to trade him for cap space. I don’t see Frank or many nba players developing the heart and tenacity Smart plays with. If Frank has that he might be the best prospect in his draft class.

Can we really call Frank's lack of progress "Heart"? I mean we really don't know the guy. WE read of his high work ethic and its not like he does not try.
He does not preen or scream when makes a good play, but that does not mean he does not care. Playing defense requires heart. Steals require heart.
While I might be a fan boy of him to my eye his ego/confidence is not strong and he looks physically immature still. I have said this before that in person Knox and Frank look very much like teenagers. A good progression in his rookie season he played 78 games, this past he was beset with injuries. A bad shoulder would effect shooting.
Excuse or a reason? I don't know. Smart is a beast. He played 2 years in college and was a tank coming out of school.

I wouldn't question Frank's heart; I would question Fizz's brain

Look at Celtics. They know Smart has limited offense. He's a good interior passer and a tenacious defender and they roll with that, even though Smart can sometime otherwise get them in trouble with his shots and his temper(a bit of Ron Artest)

We on the other hand crushed Franks confidence and took away his one strength moving him off of defending the point where he has a huge advantage and instead put him on 2s and 3s. He'll now end up on some team like San Antonio or Pacers and make us look foolish while we flounder around with Mudiay, DSJ and god knows who else

There were concerns about Frank's confidence in scouting reports prior to the draft. It also was suggested that if Frank's eventual position was going to be point guard he needed to get minutes on the ball in the g league because he had played primarily off the ball. I don't think this is a case of Knicks dumb Spurs smart. If you want to make the case that the Knicks should have sent Frank to the g league for a significant amount of time to improve his point guard play and that not doing it hurt his development I could get behind that.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
jskinny35
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4/17/2019  11:29 AM
I think we didn't send him to the G League because we were concerned it would destroy his confidence further... everybody who goes to the G League and gets called to an NBA roster usually dominates down there... what would have been like for Frank to go down there and average 9-11 points and play lock down defense? It would take away any potential trade value he has remaining for other teams possibly considering him...
CrushAlot
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4/17/2019  12:38 PM
jskinny35 wrote:I think we didn't send him to the G League because we were concerned it would destroy his confidence further... everybody who goes to the G League and gets called to an NBA roster usually dominates down there... what would have been like for Frank to go down there and average 9-11 points and play lock down defense? It would take away any potential trade value he has remaining for other teams possibly considering him...

If the goal was for him to be the Knick’s point guard then you send him down. Also, this could have been done his rookie year. If the plan is to trade Frank then I agree you don’t send him down.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Chandler
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4/17/2019  12:39 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Chandler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Crazy that the Celtics could have 4 first round picks in this draft

it is and Ainge has been good at making deals. What in gods name do you do with 4 picks?
Make trades. Frank as a celtic. UGGGGH!!! Watch him blossom in Celtic Green would make me sick.
He has time to decide on Jaylen Brown. Rozier is restricted FA.
Ainge has done a good job with rookie scale contracts then moving on. With picks and talent they should make a compelling trade for AD but if Knicks need Franks cap space they could see him as having more upside to Marcus Smart down the road. Ainge knows what he is doing. Don't always work but he has a process.

Maybe if Frank had Smart’s heart the Knicks would never look to trade him for cap space. I don’t see Frank or many nba players developing the heart and tenacity Smart plays with. If Frank has that he might be the best prospect in his draft class.

Can we really call Frank's lack of progress "Heart"? I mean we really don't know the guy. WE read of his high work ethic and its not like he does not try.
He does not preen or scream when makes a good play, but that does not mean he does not care. Playing defense requires heart. Steals require heart.
While I might be a fan boy of him to my eye his ego/confidence is not strong and he looks physically immature still. I have said this before that in person Knox and Frank look very much like teenagers. A good progression in his rookie season he played 78 games, this past he was beset with injuries. A bad shoulder would effect shooting.
Excuse or a reason? I don't know. Smart is a beast. He played 2 years in college and was a tank coming out of school.

I wouldn't question Frank's heart; I would question Fizz's brain

Look at Celtics. They know Smart has limited offense. He's a good interior passer and a tenacious defender and they roll with that, even though Smart can sometime otherwise get them in trouble with his shots and his temper(a bit of Ron Artest)

We on the other hand crushed Franks confidence and took away his one strength moving him off of defending the point where he has a huge advantage and instead put him on 2s and 3s. He'll now end up on some team like San Antonio or Pacers and make us look foolish while we flounder around with Mudiay, DSJ and god knows who else

There were concerns about Frank's confidence in scouting reports prior to the draft. It also was suggested that if Frank's eventual position was going to be point guard he needed to get minutes on the ball in the g league because he had played primarily off the ball. I don't think this is a case of Knicks dumb Spurs smart. If you want to make the case that the Knicks should have sent Frank to the g league for a significant amount of time to improve his point guard play and that not doing it hurt his development I could get behind that.

hindsight is 20-20 and g-league may have been right. But he didnt lack confidence on D and enjoyed the challenges against Harden Wade et al when they tried to school him but failed. He stuffed a Ben Simmon's dunk attempt.

The weird part is they let Kniox play through horrific stretches and showed plenty of patience with Mud and DSJ even when they did something dumb

The point of my post was that the Celtics for example let Smart play to his strengths. They don't try to make him into some electric scorer. Maybe they're disappointed w him being a #6 pick (higher than Frank) but they are extracting maximum value out of what he can actually provide. We in turn did the opposite with Frank. I can't believe he's psyched about his situation. They benched him when his family visited. They've favored reclamation projects over him

Martin: Hezonja will be in the NBA next year.
jskinny35
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4/17/2019  1:01 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:I think we didn't send him to the G League because we were concerned it would destroy his confidence further... everybody who goes to the G League and gets called to an NBA roster usually dominates down there... what would have been like for Frank to go down there and average 9-11 points and play lock down defense? It would take away any potential trade value he has remaining for other teams possibly considering him...

If the goal was for him to be the Knick’s point guard then you send him down. Also, this could have been done his rookie year. If the plan is to trade Frank then I agree you don’t send him down.

Agree and they should have his rookie season. Now you either move on from him as a focus and hope he develops on his own or you trade him if you can get any decent return. I think right now his value looks like an early 2nd round pick. If we can get anything in the first round that would be great

technomaster
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4/19/2019  10:15 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/19/2019  10:29 AM
Well, I hope the Knicks didn't ruin Frank. He didn't have the ideal 2nd season, but I'm not sure if you can blame the Knicks completely - injuries are part of the game and he simply was injured for a pretty good chunk of the season.

Replaying his rookie season, it might have been a better choice for Ntilikina to have been send down the the G-league to work on his PG skills as soon as KP got hurt, as we were no longer giving him valuable/meaningful minutes on a potential playoff squad. But alas, he was also a bit banged up that year too.

His rookie season was quite promising though and the influence of Jack on the roster seemed to be a good one. He had some really impressive moments and we thought highly of the long armed tandem of KP and Frank on the floor together.

This season Frank was put in a college-like atmosphere where the players were supposed to be rooting for each other, pushing each other, all while working on "positionless" basketball skills. The team could have considered whether the camaraderie of being with the other young players was more valuable than him being send "down".

Another interesting element is while G-league competition is generally easier (players are generally slower and shorter than comparative NBA players), his head-to-head competition on the Westchester Knicks roster might have been comparable. Kadeem Allen was the primary PG on the G-league team, and many folks here feel that age 26, Allen is probably a more polished and mature player than any of the Knicks PGs this year (Burke/Mudiay/Frank/DSJ), and likewise might have caused more problems for Frank than his NBA Knick teammates.

Of course, the difference is that in G-league, there's a bit more of an understanding that the "best players" do not necessarily get the minutes as it's set up to be a training ground - it doesn't have to be a "competition" given that the goal of the G-league isn't to showcase the max potential of the players, it's to showcase how well these folks can execute with their roles and plug into an NBA system. Kadeem could have just had to suck it up. (or alternatively, Allen could have traded roster spots to keep Frank's path clear)

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technomaster
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4/19/2019  10:36 AM
There was an interesting article comparing Barrett and Culver. Culver has developed quite measurably between his freshman and soph years, solidifying base skills and expanding them in year 2. Freshman Barrett came into the season as a better player than Freshman Culver, but based on the Duke roster, was thrust into an alpha role right away and the concern is that he hasn't developed "the little things". Coming into the Knicks (or most lottery teams), he'll continue to be thrust into alpha roles and this ultimately may limit his upside as he'll never have the emphasis to round out his game.

Culver is a more well rounded player (some would say ready to be a high level defender in the NBA) plus his offense isn't that different from Barrett's. But he's also a bit older too, so that factors in the upside.

I *hope* Ewing can deliver the goods on lottery night (aka Zion)... but if not I really don't know who's going where.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
martin
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4/19/2019  11:54 AM
technomaster wrote:Well, I hope the Knicks didn't ruin Frank. He didn't have the ideal 2nd season, but I'm not sure if you can blame the Knicks completely - injuries are part of the game and he simply was injured for a pretty good chunk of the season.

Replaying his rookie season, it might have been a better choice for Ntilikina to have been send down the the G-league to work on his PG skills as soon as KP got hurt, as we were no longer giving him valuable/meaningful minutes on a potential playoff squad. But alas, he was also a bit banged up that year too.

His rookie season was quite promising though and the influence of Jack on the roster seemed to be a good one. He had some really impressive moments and we thought highly of the long armed tandem of KP and Frank on the floor together.

This season Frank was put in a college-like atmosphere where the players were supposed to be rooting for each other, pushing each other, all while working on "positionless" basketball skills. The team could have considered whether the camaraderie of being with the other young players was more valuable than him being send "down".

Another interesting element is while G-league competition is generally easier (players are generally slower and shorter than comparative NBA players), his head-to-head competition on the Westchester Knicks roster might have been comparable. Kadeem Allen was the primary PG on the G-league team, and many folks here feel that age 26, Allen is probably a more polished and mature player than any of the Knicks PGs this year (Burke/Mudiay/Frank/DSJ), and likewise might have caused more problems for Frank than his NBA Knick teammates.

Of course, the difference is that in G-league, there's a bit more of an understanding that the "best players" do not necessarily get the minutes as it's set up to be a training ground - it doesn't have to be a "competition" given that the goal of the G-league isn't to showcase the max potential of the players, it's to showcase how well these folks can execute with their roles and plug into an NBA system. Kadeem could have just had to suck it up. (or alternatively, Allen could have traded roster spots to keep Frank's path clear)

huh? Did Allen and Frank even play more than a handful of games together? I guess i don't know why you would add that type of thinking

Frank's problems seem to be confidence and shooting. At the beginning of the year Trey was starting at PG and Frank was at the 3, and he was left in the corner to shoot the simplest of 3 point shots (give or take the whole offensive scheme). In a nutshell, Frank was left to defend and make 1 type of shot within the offense. Wasn't asked to run the show or anything. Do the thing you are super capable of and do 1 element of the offense. He failed at that.

In Fiz's terminology, he didn't kill anything.

Kid filled out his body last offseason but he had better continue with his handle and shot, and his kill everything around him mentality better wake the F up, otherwise life in the NBA will be short.

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technomaster
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4/19/2019  8:04 PM
I mean more problems for Frank to earn *playing time* over Allen in the G-league. You can rationalize Frank getting minutes over Mudiay and Burke courtesy of his superior defense.

I think Kadeem Allen's a better all-around player (especially at PG) over Frank at this stage - albeit 6 or 7 years older. In limited minutes for the NBA Knicks, he seemed like a hardnosed defender (perhaps he learned something while sparring with Marcus Smart in Boston) and a confident offensive thread. It'd be hard for Frank to earn minutes over Allen's steadier play. Let's be honest: it'd be amazing if Frank could match 2019 PG Allen within a year or two.

Kevin Dolorico | "That was two, two from the heart." - John Starks
ekstarks94
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4/19/2019  10:21 PM
technomaster wrote:I mean more problems for Frank to earn *playing time* over Allen in the G-league. You can rationalize Frank getting minutes over Mudiay and Burke courtesy of his superior defense.

I think Kadeem Allen's a better all-around player (especially at PG) over Frank at this stage - albeit 6 or 7 years older. In limited minutes for the NBA Knicks, he seemed like a hardnosed defender (perhaps he learned something while sparring with Marcus Smart in Boston) and a confident offensive thread. It'd be hard for Frank to earn minutes over Allen's steadier play. Let's be honest: it'd be amazing if Frank could match 2019 PG Allen within a year or two.


If Frank could duplicate Allen’s production he would be twice as better just based on size alone.
knicks1248
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4/22/2019  12:29 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
technomaster wrote:I mean more problems for Frank to earn *playing time* over Allen in the G-league. You can rationalize Frank getting minutes over Mudiay and Burke courtesy of his superior defense.

I think Kadeem Allen's a better all-around player (especially at PG) over Frank at this stage - albeit 6 or 7 years older. In limited minutes for the NBA Knicks, he seemed like a hardnosed defender (perhaps he learned something while sparring with Marcus Smart in Boston) and a confident offensive thread. It'd be hard for Frank to earn minutes over Allen's steadier play. Let's be honest: it'd be amazing if Frank could match 2019 PG Allen within a year or two.


If Frank could duplicate Allen’s production he would be twice as better just based on size alone.

The knicks need to cut ties with frank, and I believe they will, there's just too many players better than him on the roster, in the draft, and in FA.

This is not a good system or environment for him

ES
Cartman718
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4/23/2019  1:04 PM
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Cartman718
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4/23/2019  1:05 PM
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Sangfroid
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4/25/2019  11:03 AM
Cartman718 wrote:

Hmmm. Real personable...

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The 2019 Draft

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