I don’t see a pretty game being played. One pass then one on one. Burke, Trier and Timmy get fed by a faster pace by Mudiay and they attack. Vonleh gets the ball, he backs his man down and to the rim.
Our guys were getting shots blocked and if Memphis did not get cold and blow a few easy buckets we don’t win. I’m complaining after a win? We are cutting the yoots minutes and winning with our outcasts.

Enes was a monster and we met the Grizz grind game with him. Gasol statistically had a good game too. We won that game attacking the rim and at the foul line. Good job coaching.
I suppose this leaves me questioning that if this line up and minutes are going to be the norm we’ll win more which is good but are going to be resigning some of our guys and if so does it hurt the long term? Its not all bad but its not pretty either.

nothing to be excited about by our play w/ burke and kanter leading the charge

i guess the only thing is if knox & co are learning by just watching and contributing a wee bit

Nalod wrote:OK, coach can get his and feel good about it too! Love wins, even ugly ones but the eye test leaves me a bit wanting.

I don’t see a pretty game being played. One pass then one on one. Burke, Trier and Timmy get fed by a faster pace by Mudiay and they attack. Vonleh gets the ball, he backs his man down and to the rim.
Our guys were getting shots blocked and if Memphis did not get cold and blow a few easy buckets we don’t win. I’m complaining after a win? We are cutting the yoots minutes and winning with our outcasts.

Enes was a monster and we met the Grizz grind game with him. Gasol statistically had a good game too. We won that game attacking the rim and at the foul line. Good job coaching.
I suppose this leaves me questioning that if this line up and minutes are going to be the norm we’ll win more which is good but are going to be resigning some of our guys and if so does it hurt the long term? Its not all bad but its not pretty either.

We need to sort through this group and figure out who the keepers are. Burke and Vonleh both have small cap holds and appear to be nice supporting pieces for KP. Ultimately it's about building a winning team around KP. Mudiay is playing well but his contract will likely be renounced until the free agent situation is sorted out, then who knows.

blkexec wrote:We upset when we win....

We upset when we lose....

Inside the mind of a knicks fan....

Not upset. "Discussing".
What's interesting is the team playing as is with a three game streak on the back of a pretty bad losing streak.Dotson out DNP'ing, Franks minutes are nearly half and Knox as well. Mitchell seems to play well in small doses. Im not saying any of this is written in stone regarding roster and minutes. Its all very fluid. Dotson comes in looks great then awful. Frank on the ball, off the ball, aggressive, shoulder hurts, Passive, etc......Enes starts, then he don't. He is a grinder and if that's where we are going so be it, but if not and he is an expiring so we just discussing whats up.
CLee is coming off injury and will get time. Might be an audition if we can move him.
If Enes is so freaking wonderful I hope teams are lining up with offers for him and his bird rights. I'd be thrilled with a late first round pick!! Fact is we don't want any money coming back so its going to be a late season trade if any.

Nalod not complaining at any level, we discussing. Is this line up a change of the paradigm or continuation of what has been? Im watching the games and find this team very interesting regardless of the outcome!!!

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

Good take. Was interesting as we kept taking it to the rim over and over no matter what. They blocked a lot of shots down the stretch but we also got to the FT line. They did not switch/double and we did not kick it outside much.
I also get why that would not be a good game for frank to get big minutes in.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

Yes, Fiz wanted that win and that's probably why he gave more mins to the vets. But to his credit, he's been doing that over the last 3 game winning streak.

The problem is simple.....NY doesn't know how to rebuild. As soon as the losing piles up (which we just experienced), Fiz will get loads of pressure from fans, the media and Dolan....since losing affects ticket sales. Fiz (like every coach b4 him) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a knicks coach.

He has to work on player development with the rookies, but at the same time, he has to show that he's a winning coach, but at the same time, he needs to lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick. Impossible task to achieve. It's a setup to fail.

This is why it takes a special personality to coach the Knicks. I think Fiz is that guy. He has thick skin and he has an agenda that he's sticking to.

In my mind, I believe he's trying to figure out how he can get his rookies and youngsters more playing time, so they can get some experience. But he rather they have winning experience vs losing. It's a balance act thats hard to master, and might be an impossible task.

We either going to suck so bad, Fiz will be 1 step out the door and he get a high draft pick.

Or Fiz plays to win, rookies don't develop and we either miss the playoffs or get swept.

Both scenarios looks bad. So I'm not sure what he should do. Me personally, I rather play the rookies long minutes and let them learn on the job. But I'm sure Dolan and the media will have a different agenda that changes every week.

A lot of assumptions.
Team should look competitive and we are.
Record is 7-14 so projection is 25-30 wins.
And this were the consensus expectations was.
Young players and trails played a lot of minutes to see where they stand .
And clarity is steadily increasing.
I think organization so far meet expectations and is true to the promises.
The rest is just emotional noise.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

Good take. Was interesting as we kept taking it to the rim over and over no matter what. They blocked a lot of shots down the stretch but we also got to the FT line. They did not switch/double and we did not kick it outside much.
I also get why that would not be a good game for frank to get big minutes in.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

Yes, Fiz wanted that win and that's probably why he gave more mins to the vets. But to his credit, he's been doing that over the last 3 game winning streak.

The problem is simple.....NY doesn't know how to rebuild. As soon as the losing piles up (which we just experienced), Fiz will get loads of pressure from fans, the media and Dolan....since losing affects ticket sales. Fiz (like every coach b4 him) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a knicks coach.

He has to work on player development with the rookies, but at the same time, he has to show that he's a winning coach, but at the same time, he needs to lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick. Impossible task to achieve. It's a setup to fail.

This is why it takes a special personality to coach the Knicks. I think Fiz is that guy. He has thick skin and he has an agenda that he's sticking to.

In my mind, I believe he's trying to figure out how he can get his rookies and youngsters more playing time, so they can get some experience. But he rather they have winning experience vs losing. It's a balance act thats hard to master, and might be an impossible task.

We either going to suck so bad, Fiz will be 1 step out the door and he get a high draft pick.

Or Fiz plays to win, rookies don't develop and we either miss the playoffs or get swept.

Both scenarios looks bad. So I'm not sure what he should do. Me personally, I rather play the rookies long minutes and let them learn on the job. But I'm sure Dolan and the media will have a different agenda that changes every week.

Both Mills and Perry have gone on record to say that they are not with the losing/tanking

Marv wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

Good take. Was interesting as we kept taking it to the rim over and over no matter what. They blocked a lot of shots down the stretch but we also got to the FT line. They did not switch/double and we did not kick it outside much.
I also get why that would not be a good game for frank to get big minutes in.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

Yes, Fiz wanted that win and that's probably why he gave more mins to the vets. But to his credit, he's been doing that over the last 3 game winning streak.

The problem is simple.....NY doesn't know how to rebuild. As soon as the losing piles up (which we just experienced), Fiz will get loads of pressure from fans, the media and Dolan....since losing affects ticket sales. Fiz (like every coach b4 him) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a knicks coach.

He has to work on player development with the rookies, but at the same time, he has to show that he's a winning coach, but at the same time, he needs to lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick. Impossible task to achieve. It's a setup to fail.

This is why it takes a special personality to coach the Knicks. I think Fiz is that guy. He has thick skin and he has an agenda that he's sticking to.

In my mind, I believe he's trying to figure out how he can get his rookies and youngsters more playing time, so they can get some experience. But he rather they have winning experience vs losing. It's a balance act thats hard to master, and might be an impossible task.

We either going to suck so bad, Fiz will be 1 step out the door and he get a high draft pick.

Or Fiz plays to win, rookies don't develop and we either miss the playoffs or get swept.

Both scenarios looks bad. So I'm not sure what he should do. Me personally, I rather play the rookies long minutes and let them learn on the job. But I'm sure Dolan and the media will have a different agenda that changes every week.

Both Mills and Perry have gone on record to say that they are not with the losing/tanking

i think you have to say that. you'll get fined, hurt team morale and get roasted in the press otherwise.

or it could just be true?

Cartman718 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

Good take. Was interesting as we kept taking it to the rim over and over no matter what. They blocked a lot of shots down the stretch but we also got to the FT line. They did not switch/double and we did not kick it outside much.
I also get why that would not be a good game for frank to get big minutes in.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

Yes, Fiz wanted that win and that's probably why he gave more mins to the vets. But to his credit, he's been doing that over the last 3 game winning streak.

The problem is simple.....NY doesn't know how to rebuild. As soon as the losing piles up (which we just experienced), Fiz will get loads of pressure from fans, the media and Dolan....since losing affects ticket sales. Fiz (like every coach b4 him) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a knicks coach.

He has to work on player development with the rookies, but at the same time, he has to show that he's a winning coach, but at the same time, he needs to lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick. Impossible task to achieve. It's a setup to fail.

This is why it takes a special personality to coach the Knicks. I think Fiz is that guy. He has thick skin and he has an agenda that he's sticking to.

In my mind, I believe he's trying to figure out how he can get his rookies and youngsters more playing time, so they can get some experience. But he rather they have winning experience vs losing. It's a balance act thats hard to master, and might be an impossible task.

We either going to suck so bad, Fiz will be 1 step out the door and he get a high draft pick.

Or Fiz plays to win, rookies don't develop and we either miss the playoffs or get swept.

Both scenarios looks bad. So I'm not sure what he should do. Me personally, I rather play the rookies long minutes and let them learn on the job. But I'm sure Dolan and the media will have a different agenda that changes every week.

Both Mills and Perry have gone on record to say that they are not with the losing/tanking

I don't believe in tanking either. What happens if we ended up losing a couple more games in 2015 and drafted Russell or Okafor? What happens if we land #1 in 2017 and draft the consensus #1 pick Fultz. Or 2014 take Wiggins or Parker? I believe you compete and let the chips fall where they may.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:I am not sure what was expected against a good defensive team. They defend the pick and roll pretty well so there's one-on-one expected off the pick. Nothing you can do there. The number of assists and hockey assists being down would typically be a concern, but against a good team like Memphis, it's actually a good thing.

This is because the more time you take in a shot clock against a grind and half court team, the more time they have to get their defense set and ready to match whatever you throw at them.

The key to beating such teams is taking shots early in the shotclock before they have time to get set. If it's 1 pass, 2 passes, 3 passes...doesn't matter. You have to break them by playing SSOL.

Good take. Was interesting as we kept taking it to the rim over and over no matter what. They blocked a lot of shots down the stretch but we also got to the FT line. They did not switch/double and we did not kick it outside much.
I also get why that would not be a good game for frank to get big minutes in.

And lets not even think that Fiz wanted that game badly!!! First meeting with old team IN THEIR HOUSE!! yeah, he wanted that one!!

Yes, Fiz wanted that win and that's probably why he gave more mins to the vets. But to his credit, he's been doing that over the last 3 game winning streak.

The problem is simple.....NY doesn't know how to rebuild. As soon as the losing piles up (which we just experienced), Fiz will get loads of pressure from fans, the media and Dolan....since losing affects ticket sales. Fiz (like every coach b4 him) is stuck between a rock and a hard place, as a knicks coach.

He has to work on player development with the rookies, but at the same time, he has to show that he's a winning coach, but at the same time, he needs to lose enough games to be in the running for a high draft pick. Impossible task to achieve. It's a setup to fail.

This is why it takes a special personality to coach the Knicks. I think Fiz is that guy. He has thick skin and he has an agenda that he's sticking to.

In my mind, I believe he's trying to figure out how he can get his rookies and youngsters more playing time, so they can get some experience. But he rather they have winning experience vs losing. It's a balance act thats hard to master, and might be an impossible task.

We either going to suck so bad, Fiz will be 1 step out the door and he get a high draft pick.

Or Fiz plays to win, rookies don't develop and we either miss the playoffs or get swept.

Both scenarios looks bad. So I'm not sure what he should do. Me personally, I rather play the rookies long minutes and let them learn on the job. But I'm sure Dolan and the media will have a different agenda that changes every week.

Both Mills and Perry have gone on record to say that they are not with the losing/tanking

I don't believe in tanking either. What happens if we ended up losing a couple more games in 2015 and drafted Russell or Okafor? What happens if we land #1 in 2017 and draft the consensus #1 pick Fultz. Or 2014 take Wiggins or Parker? I believe you compete and let the chips fall where they may.

exactly..

Nothing good comes out of tanking, coaches get fired, gms get fired, players get traded or not brought back

Then your next season has a rebuild label on it, and that has been our label for the past 5 yrs.

In fact since woodson was fired 5 yrs ago, Every yr is yr one of a rebuild and some folks don't even realize that.

i believe in it. give your young ones a lot of run, find out who's a keeper, build familiarity with one another on the court and pick up best player possible in the draft when a major injury impacts that year's viability for the playoffs. sure worked out for san antonio when they got to pair tim duncan with david robinson. sure could work out for the knicks if they get to pair zion williamson with kristaps porzingis.