meloshouldgo wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.

I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

Hadn't seen this before, LOL. If you don't want to read what I post, don't read it? Someone holding a gun to your head Einstein?
My post was about THJR not about Melo. But yeah I absolutely appreciate him doing things Melo flat out refused to do. Probably even more so because of it. Your endless hard on for Melo makes you take things personally, sucks to be you Einstein. Your posts are about af interesting and thoughtful as Melo's game. I can see the connection..😂😂

Yet another thoughtful response that says absolutely nothing. Oh, other than the normal MELO sucked. Bravo! It must be great to be you, genius. You never fail to live down to exactly what's posted about your posts. And the threads you start.

Newsflash dude, Melo's gone; your personal pariah left the building two years ago. For the sake of your own mental health and whatever family you have, let the balloon go. Happy Thanksgiving.

Chandler wrote:Putting aside the contract issue for a moment, I like THJ for all the positive reasons mentioned above.

I have a nagging suspicion that Mills re-signed him (even before he had a GM) as an ego statement (knife twist to Phil). So how THJ plays out is a big reflection on Mills

I would have also loved to see him reunited with Budenholzer.

Regarding his contract, I can't really say. It's at least a relief that it's not one of those mega-flop contracts (Noah) that we are notorious for

We do tend to think the worst at times with knicks and intentions.
All that aside, what are we seeing on the court? They guy is one of our highlights. He is paid about middle of the pack for SG's and performing as such. He is the best player on a really bad team deep in a youth transition. His weaknesses get exposed because he is not an all star nor paid like one.
Im not defending him or slamming. HIs play speaks for itself.

jrodmc wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.

I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

meloshouldgo, the resident genius creates threads with the same singular purpose; MELO SUCKED, MELO STILL SUCKS, MELO WILL ALWAYS SUCK. He could spare us all alot of time and redundant reading by just creating the one thread and bumping it occasionally. Maybe with pictures of all the players he personally likes, who also happen to be players no other FO wants.

"MITCH ROB WILL BE IN THE HOF BEFORE THAT DOUCHE I WILL NO LONGER MENTION"

But more to the point, gee whiz, wasn't it difficult trading away the DOUCHE? And we didn't even have to use some 1st round draft pick pasties to dress up the DOUCHE and his TRULY RIDICULOUS CONTRACT. We just had to take back two No D bench fodder pieces.

Here's the mirror test in action:
If Me70 got lit up regularly on defense, especially during the last second of some games where he's been scoring, would we be reading about "supporting teammates, at least trying, playing with heart, mmmuah mmmuah mmmuah I even love how dumb he appears to be..."

Net/net, I'm just glad we have someone on the team who can score with some sort of regularity. No matter what THJr's getting paid. Personally, I don't GAF about Dolan's money.

Hadn't seen this before, LOL. If you don't want to read what I post, don't read it? Someone holding a gun to your head Einstein?
My post was about THJR not about Melo. But yeah I absolutely appreciate him doing things Melo flat out refused to do. Probably even more so because of it. Your endless hard on for Melo makes you take things personally, sucks to be you Einstein. Your posts are about af interesting and thoughtful as Melo's game. I can see the connection..😂😂

Yet another thoughtful response that says absolutely nothing. Oh, other than the normal MELO sucked. Bravo! It must be great to be you, genius. You never fail to live down to exactly what's posted about your posts. And the threads you start.

Newsflash dude, Melo's gone; your personal pariah left the building two years ago. For the sake of your own mental health and whatever family you have, let the balloon go. Happy Thanksgiving.

You expect thoughtful responses after taking a dump on someone? You have Melo level people skills to match your vast vocabulary. Are you guys related?

meloshouldgo wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:Putting aside the contract issue for a moment, I like THJ for all the positive reasons mentioned above.

I have a nagging suspicion that Mills re-signed him (even before he had a GM) as an ego statement (knife twist to Phil). So how THJ plays out is a big reflection on Mills

I would have also loved to see him reunited with Budenholzer.

Regarding his contract, I can't really say. It's at least a relief that it's not one of those mega-flop contracts (Noah) that we are notorious for

We do tend to think the worst at times with knicks and intentions.
All that aside, what are we seeing on the court? They guy is one of our highlights. He is paid about middle of the pack for SG's and performing as such. He is the best player on a really bad team deep in a youth transition. His weaknesses get exposed because he is not an all star nor paid like one.
Im not defending him or slamming. HIs play speaks for itself.

I am very happy with him. He's taking charges (2d in NBA) and showing effort. We will have to see how he keeps things up when he's Robin, instead of Batman

Also, not a knock on Fizz, but we all know THJ improved under Budenholzer. If nothing else it shows THJ is willing to listen and learn from coaches.

I like what he is doing this season. But I will withhold judgment on whether he can play second banana effectively. He was not able to do this very well last year. He seems to need the ball in his hands quite a bit to be effective.

With the right pg and SF playing along side THJ, he can be a very reliable option.

This just shows you how long it takes players to become good, and if you could remember, when he was a rookie, and played with melo, Jr, shump, and some other vets, he looked promising.

And maybe you forgot that before the injury last yr , he was looking very decent, when he came back and had to play without KP, and also was forced to play half court with slow ass jack and frank, those things play a factor.

knicks1248 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:Putting aside the contract issue for a moment, I like THJ for all the positive reasons mentioned above.

I have a nagging suspicion that Mills re-signed him (even before he had a GM) as an ego statement (knife twist to Phil). So how THJ plays out is a big reflection on Mills

I would have also loved to see him reunited with Budenholzer.

Regarding his contract, I can't really say. It's at least a relief that it's not one of those mega-flop contracts (Noah) that we are notorious for

We do tend to think the worst at times with knicks and intentions.
All that aside, what are we seeing on the court? They guy is one of our highlights. He is paid about middle of the pack for SG's and performing as such. He is the best player on a really bad team deep in a youth transition. His weaknesses get exposed because he is not an all star nor paid like one.
Im not defending him or slamming. HIs play speaks for itself.

I am very happy with him. He's taking charges (2d in NBA) and showing effort. We will have to see how he keeps things up when he's Robin, instead of Batman

Also, not a knock on Fizz, but we all know THJ improved under Budenholzer. If nothing else it shows THJ is willing to listen and learn from coaches.

I like what he is doing this season. But I will withhold judgment on whether he can play second banana effectively. He was not able to do this very well last year. He seems to need the ball in his hands quite a bit to be effective.

With the right pg and SF playing along side THJ, he can be a very reliable option.

This just shows you how long it takes players to become good, and if you could remember, when he was a rookie, and played with melo, Jr, shump, and some other vets, he looked promising.

And maybe you forgot that before the injury last yr , he was looking very decent, when he came back and had to play without KP, and also was forced to play half court with slow ass jack and frank, those things play a factor.

My comment was about his ability to be successful as a second option when he doesn't get the ball as much. He hasn't shown he can be good in that role yet.

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.

I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

He is the 13th highest paid at his position. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/shooting-guard/

I am pretty sure his point is, no other team in the NBA thinks THJR is being paid what he is worth. Listing a bunch of people that may or may not be in the same boat and highlighting ones you don't personally like won't change that. Like I said, I would still trade him at the first opportunity. You don't pay people more than their worth because some other team was stupid enough to do it. By pushing this argument you are asking the Knicks to be stupid.

But back to THJR, he is doing what he can to help. His talent and skill level is not very high, he is not a high IQ player by any stretch of imagination and our FO ****ed up overpaying for him. But unlike one dimensional chuckers in our recent past he is NOT being a sulking jerk about it. He comes to play, supports his young teammates, tries to play second within his limitations and clearly wants to win. I will root for him to succeed, he has earned that from me.

I never said Tim was a value contract or that he is being sought after in trades. My point was that he is producing at a rate that justifies his contract. He also was a restricted free agent signing so the Knicks did have to over pay. If you look at the posted link he is in the middle range for pay for shooting guards.

PresIke wrote:A couple of games don't erase reality just yet, but he's had a good stretch and deserves credit.

Still agree that at this point he's the 6th man on a top team, but if he can improve this season that could change.

PresIke wrote:

Welpee wrote:

PresIke wrote:A couple of games don't erase reality just yet, but he's had a good stretch and deserves credit.

Still agree that at this point he's the 6th man on a top team, but if he can improve this season that could change.

He may not be the top guy or even the #2 guy on a top team, but he's a starter. Is there another fan base that disrespects its own player more than Knick fans. JR Smith and Danny Green were starters on a championship teams.

I don't think my view is disrespectful. If anything I feel most of our fanbase has more of a tendency to overrate Knick players than hate on them. There is a divide and has been one for ages. Back in the day here it was the "UK Mafia" hating vs "The Lovers" and on the old NY Times forum "Negative Nancy's" vs. the "Pom Poms." I could have put myself strongly in the lover category in the past, and still want to be, but given that I believe a lot of our fans are old enough to recall all of those years, more may be wary of this than maybe the past.

I think this also explains the Frank debate which reporters who appear on Knicks Film School keeps talking about as "curious," while I think it can be explained. Also, just the fact that social media exists, but forums have had this forever, RealGM being a mega hotbed, especially the Knicks forum.

Regardless, I like THJ as a player, and again, am happy he's playing much better this season. I hope it continues, but historically the criticisms of him are not coming just from Knick fans. I saw some Knicks fan Twitter post the other day questioning his contract as "bad" now after his three 30 point games. Really? That's all it takes to change folks minds?

He's a good NBA player, don't get me wrong, but he has shown flaws we all know of - selfishness/poor shot selection at times and defense being the most obvious - that combined with his historically high usage rate on mostly bad teams inflate and arguably question his impact on the court.

But, this year he's showing to be less selfish and some key stats are up including going to the line more which has increased his TS%. His eFG is also up and is shooting better from 3, as is his PER by a few points while his usage rate has gone up even more and is turning the ball over more.

I heard "objective" reporters and Knicks Film School hosts, who are not "haters" by any stretch call him a the 4th scorer or 6th man on a TOP team, meaning one that wins or at least goes to the Finals, I am gathering. How is that a knock on him? John Starks was probably at that level, but started for us still, and is arguably partially why we never won as we relied on him more than we should have. Does that make me a hater about him too?

Welpee wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote: If you are going to call out Tim's contract as an over pay for his position you have to cite the other contracts for his position. If you consider the variable of signing a restricted free agent where you have to offer a deal that the controlling team wont match you have to consider that as well. Tim is far from an Allen Crabbe, Jeremy Lin, Tyler Johnson, Omar Asik type signing. He is producing at a rate where shooting guards get paid at least 17 mil.

I get where meloshouldgo is going with this. I appreciate his perspective. He's citing that THJr is acting as a professional. My take is a bit different, I'd say THJr acting as a professional and the desire to laud it says less about THJr and more about the general NBA culture.

Being a professional is your job. No one should get credit for what you are supposed to do anyway. But in the NBA, so many guys are entitled douchebags that players who are professionals get lauded for the contrast.

The Knicks have tried to trade THJr ( and pretty much everyone besides Zinger, Frank N, MRob and Knox) since the time they signed him. No one wants him. Not at his AAV/contract length plus bizarre trade kicker.

NO ONE WANTS HIM.

That's the end of the story. Wasn't hard to trade Robin Lopez was it? Because he was on a value contract and had the ability to help other teams.

If you don't think THJr's contract is ****, that's fine, you are entitled to your view. But against the actual NBA MARKETPLACE, he's a bad contract. No one wants it, which should tell you something.

Everyone has a right to their view. But if you were in a functional NBA front office and tried to justify THJr's contract, they'd just fire you. Classically, as the story goes, an NBA intern tried to impress his front office by openly talking about how the max deal Joe Johnson got from the Hawks was a good contract. He got rewarded by getting fired.

Single mother creates her first Plenty Of Fish or Match profile. "I'm successful, I have a good career, I'm attractive, I don't know why I'm alone"

Simple answer - You are not attractive.

Some Knicks fans say THJr is this, he's that, look at these other contracts

Simple answer - Knicks have tried to trade this dude since they signed him. If he was a true value, they wouldn't be trying to trade him. If he was the value some people want to push, other teams would want him.

If you are single and don't want to be single, good chance you are ugly. Talking about the other women you know who have relationships means nothing in this context.

If your team has been trying to trade you and they can't, good chance no other team sees the value in your production against your cost. Talking about other bad contracts means nothing in this context.

TJJr is like an ugly woman some of you are convinced is much prettier than in reality. If that was true, men would be lining up around the block. Do you see a line? Do you see a line of teams saying ****, I need to get THJr and his value contract onto my roster?

He is the 13th highest paid at his position. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/shooting-guard/

I am pretty sure his point is, no other team in the NBA thinks THJR is being paid what he is worth. Listing a bunch of people that may or may not be in the same boat and highlighting ones you don't personally like won't change that. Like I said, I would still trade him at the first opportunity. You don't pay people more than their worth because some other team was stupid enough to do it. By pushing this argument you are asking the Knicks to be stupid.

But back to THJR, he is doing what he can to help. His talent and skill level is not very high, he is not a high IQ player by any stretch of imagination and our FO ****ed up overpaying for him. But unlike one dimensional chuckers in our recent past he is NOT being a sulking jerk about it. He comes to play, supports his young teammates, tries to play second within his limitations and clearly wants to win. I will root for him to succeed, he has earned that from me.

I never said Tim was a value contract or that he is being sought after in trades. My point was that he is producing at a rate that justifies his contract. He also was a restricted free agent signing so the Knicks did have to over pay. If you look at the posted link he is in the middle range for pay for shooting guards.

The clock is ticking on a THJR hater posting some advance metrics to show how horrible he is despite what your eyes are telling you.

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https://twitter.com/ScooterToots/status/1065621968869879809