[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Fire Fizdale NOW!
Author Thread
FireHornacek
Posts: 20131
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/3/2017
Member: #7584

11/17/2018  12:54 PM
Vmart wrote:
That is why they have to develop their own talent and hope they become good enough to attract future free agents. Or that they become good enough that they don’t need any outsider FA.

Develop who exactly? Come on, except for Trier, our starting five would never see the floor on any other team. Already we know what Knox and Mitchell are. Decent enough to play in the league, but affecting nothing. Frank's a waste of a high pick; he's coming close to being called a bust. Dotson, Vonleh, Kornet, Mud, and Burke....they will develop into exactly what they are now -- marginal players. They are not developing beyond that.

We are toast. There was a day not long ago when Tyson and Amare and a Melo would sign here. Did it work out with those guys? No, but at least we were a professional team. Now we really are a D-League team playing against the likes of LeBron and Curry and Davis... Who the hell is coming here? Porz ain't a big magnet to draw anybody. We are toast. I don't see how things can change.

AUTOADVERT
Vmart
Posts: 31800
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/23/2002
Member: #247
USA
11/17/2018  12:59 PM
They have to develop Knox and Robinson and Frank. Trier also and next years draft pick not to mention continue developing KP. Development is a lengthy process. Remember Sixer had a long development period.
FireHornacek
Posts: 20131
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/3/2017
Member: #7584

11/17/2018  1:20 PM
Vmart wrote:Remember Sixer had a long development period.

Sixers had no process at all; they just did everything by wing and a prayer. Clueless. My God, they drafted Igoudala and Lou Williams and Evan Turner and Elfrid Payton and Jrue Holiday...and let them go. (Jeez, look what Holiday did to us last night and watch the highlights of what Lou Willimas did to the Spurs last night.) Sixers had no clue what to do with their players/draft picks. Their process was to blindly throw a million darts at the board and see if any hits the bulls eye. (Embid's dart did.)
TripleThreat
Posts: 23106
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 2/24/2012
Member: #3997

11/17/2018  1:37 PM
FireHornacek wrote:
Vmart wrote:
That is why they have to develop their own talent and hope they become good enough to attract future free agents. Or that they become good enough that they don’t need any outsider FA.

Develop who exactly? Come on, except for Trier, our starting five would never see the floor on any other team. Already we know what Knox and Mitchell are. Decent enough to play in the league, but affecting nothing. Frank's a waste of a high pick; he's coming close to being called a bust. Dotson, Vonleh, Kornet, Mud, and Burke....they will develop into exactly what they are now -- marginal players. They are not developing beyond that.

We are toast. There was a day not long ago when Tyson and Amare and a Melo would sign here. Did it work out with those guys? No, but at least we were a professional team. Now we really are a D-League team playing against the likes of LeBron and Curry and Davis... Who the hell is coming here? Porz ain't a big magnet to draw anybody. We are toast. I don't see how things can change.


Maybe "develop" is not the most accurate word for the entire situation.

The Knicks, like any other non contender, has to just keep drafting and do the best they can at the time and place and hope for the best. Is the draft a total crapshoot? Yes. Are the odds incredibly stacked against you? Yes. Is there any other choice?

There is NO OTHER CHOICE.

Draft picks/assets/cost controlled players are either core building blocks or trade bait for other help or dumping contracts. It's renewable currency, but not every player is going to pan out.

If a player is a bust, then he's a bust. Every team will miss on some picks. All you can do is keep trying.

Warriors drafted some real dogs after Steph Curry. But they kept at it and it worked out. But it could have easily not worked out.

People see Good Chance Versus Bad Chance. People who see this do not understand the resource management aspect of the NBA.

The reality is SLIM TO NONE CHANCE Versus ZERO CHANCE AT ALL IN HELL

Drafting and keeping throwing darts with picks and hoping it pans out is a SLIM TO NONE CHANCE.

But it's still better than ZERO CHANCE AT ALL IN HELL.

Even if you don't have a contender, there's something to be said for a fun team to watch. A set of players who give fans their moneys worth in terms of entertainment and competition. The Knicks don't need to look at contender status at the only metric of success here. Just start by putting a solid team that plays as a team first. Parcells always said never look at the Superbowl, always worry first about small things like yards gained/lost through special teams play. Baby steps. Worry about ball security in the 4th quarter. Making stops on 3rd down.

Small goals first. First goal, move towards a clean cap sheet. Start there.

There is no other choice. There are no market inefficiencies in this system. There are literally no market corrections available. You want to say it sucks? Yes, it does suck. But it's how it all works. It sucks a person can't eat nachos every night and be healthy and has to eat broccoli instead. But it's how it works.

If Zinger, Knox, MRob and Frank N all bust, guess what? So the **** what. You still keep drafting and you still try to do your best every time out. There is no other choice.

ramtour420
Posts: 25910
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
11/17/2018  2:51 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
FireHornacek wrote:
Vmart wrote:
That is why they have to develop their own talent and hope they become good enough to attract future free agents. Or that they become good enough that they don’t need any outsider FA.

Develop who exactly? Come on, except for Trier, our starting five would never see the floor on any other team. Already we know what Knox and Mitchell are. Decent enough to play in the league, but affecting nothing. Frank's a waste of a high pick; he's coming close to being called a bust. Dotson, Vonleh, Kornet, Mud, and Burke....they will develop into exactly what they are now -- marginal players. They are not developing beyond that.

We are toast. There was a day not long ago when Tyson and Amare and a Melo would sign here. Did it work out with those guys? No, but at least we were a professional team. Now we really are a D-League team playing against the likes of LeBron and Curry and Davis... Who the hell is coming here? Porz ain't a big magnet to draw anybody. We are toast. I don't see how things can change.


Maybe "develop" is not the most accurate word for the entire situation.

The Knicks, like any other non contender, has to just keep drafting and do the best they can at the time and place and hope for the best. Is the draft a total crapshoot? Yes. Are the odds incredibly stacked against you? Yes. Is there any other choice?

There is NO OTHER CHOICE.

Draft picks/assets/cost controlled players are either core building blocks or trade bait for other help or dumping contracts. It's renewable currency, but not every player is going to pan out.

If a player is a bust, then he's a bust. Every team will miss on some picks. All you can do is keep trying.

Warriors drafted some real dogs after Steph Curry. But they kept at it and it worked out. But it could have easily not worked out.

People see Good Chance Versus Bad Chance. People who see this do not understand the resource management aspect of the NBA.

The reality is SLIM TO NONE CHANCE Versus ZERO CHANCE AT ALL IN HELL

Drafting and keeping throwing darts with picks and hoping it pans out is a SLIM TO NONE CHANCE.

But it's still better than ZERO CHANCE AT ALL IN HELL.

Even if you don't have a contender, there's something to be said for a fun team to watch. A set of players who give fans their moneys worth in terms of entertainment and competition. The Knicks don't need to look at contender status at the only metric of success here. Just start by putting a solid team that plays as a team first. Parcells always said never look at the Superbowl, always worry first about small things like yards gained/lost through special teams play. Baby steps. Worry about ball security in the 4th quarter. Making stops on 3rd down.

Small goals first. First goal, move towards a clean cap sheet. Start there.

There is no other choice. There are no market inefficiencies in this system. There are literally no market corrections available. You want to say it sucks? Yes, it does suck. But it's how it all works. It sucks a person can't eat nachos every night and be healthy and has to eat broccoli instead. But it's how it works.

If Zinger, Knox, MRob and Frank N all bust, guess what? So the **** what. You still keep drafting and you still try to do your best every time out. There is no other choice.

+1 Man you really broke it down nicely. Case and point. Let's see if any of that sinks in

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
BigRedDog
Posts: 22118
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 1/23/2004
Member: #569
11/17/2018  3:15 PM
JamesKPolk wrote:
FireHornacek wrote:Folks, why do you keep hammering away at that "developing young players" bullcrap? Man, now I know why the Garden can sell you a hot dog and a coke for the incredibly low price of just 12 dollars.

What exactly is Frank The Frenchman going to develop into? I'll tell you, a guy who makes no mark in the NBA, kicks around the D-League for a year or two, than goes back to Europe to play ball there.

Develop? I know exactly what Burke and Trier and Knox and all the other teenagers on our team are. They ain't Hall Of Famers! We have nothing. Yet you fools think our nothing can be developed into a winning team. Hey, I have not a thing against optimists, but I do have something against blind fools.

Keep drinking that 12 dollar Garden Kool-Aid. Keep believing things are going well and this is all going to work. Alan Hahn actually took time in the post game show to tell us what was great about the Knicks last night. Good God we blew a 19 point lead and played rec ball defense in the last two and a half minutes. Oh, and Trier let Randle go right down the lane to put back two off a missed free throw. Was that great, Alan? Was that how we develop players? Is Trier now on his way to becoming a Hall of Famer?

Someone ban this dude. He's not funny or entertaining.

He is just trolling to get people pissed off. Total *******

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
FireHornacek
Posts: 20131
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/3/2017
Member: #7584

11/17/2018  4:14 PM
TripleThreat wrote:Maybe "develop" is not....


Even if you don't have a contender, there's something to be said for a fun team to watch. A set of players who give fans their moneys worth in terms of entertainment and competition. The Knicks don't need to look at contender status at the only metric of success here. Just start by putting a solid team that plays as a team first.


Excellent post. Great points with support.

However, you did lose me with the B section of your post.

The idea that there is something to be said for "a fun team to watch" and give fans "their money's worth in terms of entertainment and competition" does not fly at all.

A) This is New York. Yes, I'll use that arrogant trope. Why? Because it applies. Sure NY teams can be lousy now and then, but this NY team is working on a lifetime of lousy. With our team's financial assets, fan base, location, media attention the team should and must be better than what we have seen for the past fifteen years. Sure the Garden sells out but that's because we have over 12 million people in this area. We don't go because of the quality of our team, we go because it is a NY thing to do. This is NY, we deserve a better team. Ironically, if the Knicks played in Green Bay, they would become better. They'd have to in order to survive. Here we still get Christmas games. A 6-27 team getting a coveted Christmas game. Insane.

B) How is this a fun team to watch? Entertaining and competitive? We can't even hit those low hanging pieces of fruit. The first week of this season was fun. Last night's Pelican game was fun. But, man, the thirty point blowouts against the Magic is really what the rest of this season will be. We are a D-League team playing in the professional NBA. Let's face it. That is the incredible reality of this whole mess. We field a D-League squad. That is not good for the players, that is not good for the fan base. It is no longer fun to watch a Knick game. I watch mostly to see players on the other team.

ramtour420
Posts: 25910
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
11/17/2018  4:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/17/2018  4:39 PM
FireHornacek wrote:Does Bill Belichick put Tom Brady in the game at 6:05 of the second quarter?
Of course he doesn't because he is not a moron.

But Fizdale would have Brady come off the bench.

WHY DIDN'T FIZDALE START KANTER AGAINST ADAMS?

Because he's a moron, that's why.

My God, Kanter against his friend Adams at the start of the game would have kept us in the game. Instead Fiz wanted to see Mitchell Robinson against Adams. Fiz couldn't figure out that Robinson would get chewed up and spit out against Adams...and game over for Knicks. Fiz is a schmuck. Even Todd Bowles would have known to start Kanter in OKC against his old team, against big banger Adams. Fizdale is a schmuck. I swear at this point I want Todd Bowles to coach the Knicks.


We all know Fiz is treating the entire 2018/2019 season as one long training camp. Different starting line ups every night, different combinations on the court every night, veterans ride the bench so Fiz can look at youth... Every game is a pre-season exhibition game for Fizdale. I say F**K that! I want to watch a real game, not a Fizdale scrimmage. Kanter should be starting. Fizdale should be fired. NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This dope would do a better job than Fizdale. Hire him, Fire Fizdale!

Lets try this again. In reply to the only part of your post, here is a quote from a P.andT. article about the Pelicans game:

"Enes Kanter played the first five minutes of the second quarter. Over that time, he:

— faked setting a screen and slipped to the basket
— watched Davis miss a fadeaway
— was uninvolved in the offense
— dropped back defending Jrue Holiday on a pick and roll, leaving Holiday room to drive to the cup, but miss
— was uninvolved in the offense
— joined Noah Vonleh in letting Holiday drive by for a lay-in
— slipped another screen
— allowed an uncontested jumper to Ian Clark, who missed
— was uninvolved in the offense
— was uninvolved again, i.e. he literally stood still and did not move a muscle for like six seconds
— gave up another uncontested jumper to Clark, who again missed
— was uninvolved in the offense
— played conscientious objector to yet another Holiday pick and roll, surrendering a three-pointer
— slipped another screen and nearly turned the ball over
— slipped another screen
— grabbed an offensive rebound, then turned it over after doing that deer-in-the-headlights pausing schtick that clues every stray for 100 miles that the one thing he’s def not gonna do is not shoot.

That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

what are you talking about?

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
FireHornacek
Posts: 20131
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/3/2017
Member: #7584

11/17/2018  6:16 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

Wow, way to cherry pick in order to make an argument.

Uhh, who was Kanter on the floor with? Why all on him? Five players, yet you pick on him.
Watch this, I can do what you just did:

Me, my two grandmothers, the 80 year old town librarian, and LeBron James stepped on the court against the Warriors with a twenty point lead. Five minutes later we were down ten. That scrub LeBron cost us a twenty point lead!

ramtour420
Posts: 25910
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
11/18/2018  3:16 AM
FireHornacek wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

Wow, way to cherry pick in order to make an argument.

Uhh, who was Kanter on the floor with? Why all on him? Five players, yet you pick on him.
Watch this, I can do what you just did:

Me, my two grandmothers, the 80 year old town librarian, and LeBron James stepped on the court against the Warriors with a twenty point lead. Five minutes later we were down ten. That scrub LeBron cost us a twenty point lead!

Thank you for proving my point. If you gonna compare Kanter to Lebron I say you don't know how basketball works. Or maybe you are just really bad at using analogies. In any case, it's not cherry
Picking, there is a play by play breakdown provided just to avoid general blanket arguments like the one you provided

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Nalod
Posts: 68474
Alba Posts: 154
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
11/18/2018  7:53 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
FireHornacek wrote:
But you are overlooking the fact that Fizdale created this mutiny. "He can win a trophy as sixth man." What the hell is that crap?

Did you see the mutiny on the bench last night? Kanter was livid. And it wasn't over a defensive lapse from Frank The Frenchman. Kanter is being mistreated by Fiz. You can blame the salary/free agency/financial structures of the NBA, but you are still overlooking Fiz's role in this: relegating to the bench a guy who should be starting and logging 35 minutes on a sub-par team like the Knicks.

Fuck Kanter.

It's one thing to try to do your actual job and simply not execute.

It's another to go ****ing rogue and do whatever the hell you want.

I said the same thing about Hernangomez and Noah last year. If you want minutes, make the most of the ones you are given. Play in a way where no one can take you off the floor.

LeBron James has the leverage to ignore his coach. Kanter does not. If anything, this just makes Kanter even dumber. You can't drive up your counting stats from the bench. None of this is rocket science, pass the ****ing ball. Commit to your man defensively even if you know you will fail at it. Be disciplined.

Do your job the right way and then you'll start hearing **** you want to hear. Then you'll start getting **** you want to see and have.

how about putting him in a role he excels in instead of hoping he gets better at something he has never been good at.

Exactly! That's why he's providing scoring and rebounding off the bench.

Fiz and the FO were supposedly building something that has fans at MSG bringing out the D-Fense signs again.
You can't spout that dream and play a guy who practically makes Bargs look like the Glove.

The problem is when Kanter arrived here he probably thought he was going to be KP's Robin. (I sure miss Rolo) Then with KP out, he thought he was going to be Alpha1B or at least Alpha2.


Illusions of grandeur.

That small ball line will work at times, but when you need to secure some damn rebound down the stretch, you don't.

rodman played defense and rebond, couldn't score a lick, that was his role, Kanter rebounds and scores in the paint, both are limited players..

Fiz substituted burke and frank for defense offense down the stretch, but wouldn't do the same for mitch and kanter.

This is the 2nd time (17 win season) that i feel the knicks are in full tank mode, and if that's the case, why the fck is Kanter not on the trading.
block..

Have to take back salary in kind in most cases. Since we want cap space at seasons end what pray tell trade of a similar ending contract would you suggest?

JamesKPolk
Posts: 21204
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/15/2012
Member: #4093

11/18/2018  10:08 AM
FireHornacek wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

Wow, way to cherry pick in order to make an argument.

Uhh, who was Kanter on the floor with? Why all on him? Five players, yet you pick on him.
Watch this, I can do what you just did:

Me, my two grandmothers, the 80 year old town librarian, and LeBron James stepped on the court against the Warriors with a twenty point lead. Five minutes later we were down ten. That scrub LeBron cost us a twenty point lead!

Don’t you have anything better to do with your time?

Serious question.

You’re on here trolling the forum with lame posts. Literally typing out paragraphs ‘arguing’ about something you don’t believe in just to rile people up on an Internet forum. Go get laid, brother. This is sad.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801

11/18/2018  4:41 PM
FireHornacek wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

Wow, way to cherry pick in order to make an argument.

Uhh, who was Kanter on the floor with? Why all on him? Five players, yet you pick on him.
Watch this, I can do what you just did:

Me, my two grandmothers, the 80 year old town librarian, and LeBron James stepped on the court against the Warriors with a twenty point lead. Five minutes later we were down ten. That scrub LeBron cost us a twenty point lead!

SHUT UP.

His stat was fine, it wasn't cherry picked. You don't understand bolle it works, your problem. .

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
11/18/2018  5:25 PM
FireHornacek wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
That’s how a 16-point lead dwindles to nine. The Knicks gave up more points in those five minutes with Kanter on the floor than they had the entire first quarter".

Wow, way to cherry pick in order to make an argument.

Uhh, who was Kanter on the floor with? Why all on him? Five players, yet you pick on him.
Watch this, I can do what you just did:

Me, my two grandmothers, the 80 year old town librarian, and LeBron James stepped on the court against the Warriors with a twenty point lead. Five minutes later we were down ten. That scrub LeBron cost us a twenty point lead!

I am not posting on Nuclear Physics forum but you do on basketball one. Why?
Why you waste your and others time on something you have no idea about?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Fire Fizdale NOW!

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy