So clearly Fizz is focusing different things than just managing to win the game.

TripleThreat wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.

Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.

Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.

Kanter AND Burke have been abandoning their defensive assignments to reset for offense. It's because offensive counting stats are going to their best perceived pathway to get a better contract when they hit free agency. Neither have a future with this team and they both know it. It's one thing to hold your assignment and simply not execute, but just to ****ing abandon it is akin to straight up ****ing mutiny.

I keep hearing about Kanter's rebounding. If you took ANY starting pivot in the NBA and told him he no longer had any RIM PROTECTION responsibilities and had no accountability to run the defense and make defensive calls and had no responsibility to space the floor, then you'd see that players rebounding numbers go up. You know how to drive up your rebounding numbers? Camp around the rim. You know how you can camp around the rim? DON'T DEFEND THE RIM. DON'T RUN THE DEFENSE. DON'T SPACE THE FLOOR.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't defend the rim, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't quarterback your defense, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't space the floor, you won't be playing much.

Who gives a **** about Kanter's brand?

You want to stay on the floor? Play in a way where no one can take you off. Defend the mother****ing rim. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he? Space the mother****ing floor. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he?

Abandoning your defensive assignments is big giant **** you to the other four guys on the floor humping their asses to make a stop.

Free agents won't give a flying **** what happens with Kanter. FAs pick most money/most years/highest AAV/pathway to contending/pathway to starting/pathway to staying in the league.

But his defense is better now!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He gives such good effort!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Look at his rebounding!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He's gotten better every stop!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Then you will try to find pivots who can't defend the rim but start or get heavy minutes. You mean guys who can space the floor with a three point shot? Or rookies that teams want to evaluate? Or teams who are so gutted they have no one else?

Come up with ten more reasons why you think Kanter should get more than he has now.

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

There I've answered your next ten reasons.

At least it isnt the usual bitter, incel crap.

Wasnt talking about Kanter's brand, I was talking about the brand of someone who comes to NY. If you believe its just about money, you know nothing.

Kanter has been an above average rim protector. Its his perimeter defense thst has been lacking. Where do you get this ****?

You are suggesting that no offense can incorporate Kanter because he is such a liability on defense. That a few blown assignments negates a 23/24/7 game. Mother****ing unreal.

newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute.

So clearly Fizz is focusing different things than just managing to win the game.

Not true....Frank was guarding Oladipo when he drilled the 3 from the corner...scroll to 1:55 min mark....The ball was kicked to Oladipo off an offensive rebound but Frank was there...

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

HAHAAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

ABOVE AVERAGE RIM PROTECTOR?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Maybe in those camps he runs against the 10 year olds

Talk about ten year olds Martin..

Last season Kanter was a better defender near the rim than Clint Capella (among others), someone who gets raves around here for being a two-way player. Look it up.

Just because you dont see Kanter routinely sending the rock into orbit, doesnt mean he cant defend in the paint. Does a good job of staying between his man, and the rim.

When Kanter is paired with a shot blocker like KP, the results have been very good, which is why Id like to see Kanter paired more with Robinson.

Dont get this philosophy that Kanter has to be an All-Star or he's trade bait. Thats what he would be if his defense was on par with his offense.

No one is suggesting he should be paid like one.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

HAHAAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

ABOVE AVERAGE RIM PROTECTOR?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Maybe in those camps he runs against the 10 year olds

Talk about ten year olds Martin..

Last season Kanter was a better defender near the rim than Clint Capella (among others), someone who gets raves around here for being a two-way player. Look it up.

Just because you dont see Kanter routinely sending the rock into orbit, doesnt mean he cant defend in the paint. Does a good job of staying between his man, and the rim.

When Kanter is paired with a shot blocker like KP, the results have been very good, which is why Id like to see Kanter paired more with Robinson.

Dont get this philosophy that Kanter has to be an All-Star or he's trade bait. Thats what he would be if his defense was on par with his offense.

No one is suggesting he should be paid like one.

If you'd like to make a case for your argument, go ahead. I mean it's obvious that you looked up some stats but for whatever reason didn't want to show us the details. Why is that?

No one with an iota of an eye test will suggest that Kanter is better at the rim than Capella.

No one.

At least we now know why your starting point with Kanter is.

http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/

With Kanter on court we gave up 5 points more per 100 posessions than we score, without him that got cut to 3.5 points deficit. We were better without him on court. And it's not like he spend the bulk of his time defending the perimeter, so you don;t really have an argument here.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

HAHAAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

ABOVE AVERAGE RIM PROTECTOR?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Maybe in those camps he runs against the 10 year olds

Talk about ten year olds Martin..

Last season Kanter was a better defender near the rim than Clint Capella (among others), someone who gets raves around here for being a two-way player. Look it up.

Just because you dont see Kanter routinely sending the rock into orbit, doesnt mean he cant defend in the paint. Does a good job of staying between his man, and the rim.

When Kanter is paired with a shot blocker like KP, the results have been very good, which is why Id like to see Kanter paired more with Robinson.

Dont get this philosophy that Kanter has to be an All-Star or he's trade bait. Thats what he would be if his defense was on par with his offense.

No one is suggesting he should be paid like one.

If you'd like to make a case for your argument, go ahead. I mean it's obvious that you looked up some stats but for whatever reason didn't want to show us the details. Why is that?

No one with an iota of an eye test will suggest that Kanter is better at the rim than Kanter.

No one.

At least we now know why your starting point with Kanter is.

I didnt post it, because we had this conversation last season and I dont feel like digging it up, especially when its preceeded by...

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

You kept posting these defensive numbers which didnt break it down into interior, and perimeter D.

I wouldnt have looked those numbers up last season.if my eye test told me something different.

big time cop out, you have a lot of excuses to not really back up your assertions. And in part that's why you are laughed at.

Kanter is a bad weak side defender cause he is slow to recognize.

Kanter is also grounded, no lift. It's the reason why he barely ever dunks the ball or gets blocks.

Kanter doesn't move his feet well on defense.

Dude is strong as heck and sneaky around the basket. It's why when he does post and gets low position he is good around the rim offensively. He uses the other side of the rim well.

Defensively, he sucks. Both around the perimeter (he never gets out there), within the PnR, and around the rim.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

HAHAAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

ABOVE AVERAGE RIM PROTECTOR?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Maybe in those camps he runs against the 10 year olds

Talk about ten year olds Martin..

Last season Kanter was a better defender near the rim than Clint Capella (among others), someone who gets raves around here for being a two-way player. Look it up.

Just because you dont see Kanter routinely sending the rock into orbit, doesnt mean he cant defend in the paint. Does a good job of staying between his man, and the rim.

When Kanter is paired with a shot blocker like KP, the results have been very good, which is why Id like to see Kanter paired more with Robinson.

Dont get this philosophy that Kanter has to be an All-Star or he's trade bait. Thats what he would be if his defense was on par with his offense.

No one is suggesting he should be paid like one.

If you'd like to make a case for your argument, go ahead. I mean it's obvious that you looked up some stats but for whatever reason didn't want to show us the details. Why is that?

No one with an iota of an eye test will suggest that Kanter is better at the rim than Kanter.

No one.

At least we now know why your starting point with Kanter is.

I didnt post it, because we had this conversation last season and I dont feel like digging it up, especially when its preceeded by...

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHA

You kept posting these defensive numbers which didnt break it down into interior, and perimeter D.

I wouldnt have looked those numbers up last season.if my eye test told me something different.

big time cop out, you have a lot of excuses to not really back up your assertions. And in part that's why you are laughed at.

Kanter is a bad weak side defender cause he is slow to recognize.

Kanter is also grounded, no lift. It's the reason why he barely ever dunks the ball or gets blocks.

Kanter doesn't move his feet well on defense.

Dude is strong as heck and sneaky around the basket. It's why when he does post and gets low position he is good around the rim offensively. He uses the other side of the rim well.

Defensively, he sucks. Both around the perimeter (he never gets out there), within the PnR, and around the rim.

Not a cop out, a choice. Look up his defense out to 10ft from the rim. Problem is some of you are expecting a lot of splash plays.

Fizdale..

Position-wise, he's sliding his feet," he added. "He's smart. That's why he'll succeed defensively. He's not going to out-quick anyone. We know that. He's not a guy who's like Mitchell who's going to grab shots off the top of the backboard. He's a position defender and smart."

Exactly

martin wrote:I like the NBA stats pages, lots of filters and such.

Centers, per 36 minutes, 2017-18 season, played at least 40 games. Smooths stats out for fairness and better comparisons. Maybe you can add minimum minutes played but doesn't add much.

The numbers speak for themselves. Kanter always in bottom half of the group.

Hustle stats, Contested 2pt shots:
https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=CONTESTED_SHOTS_2PT&dir=1&PerMode=Per36&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=G*GE*40&PlayerPosition=C

Player defense < 6ft from rim:
https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-lt6/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=LT_06_PCT&dir=-1&PlayerPosition=C&CF=GP*GE*40

General Defensive Stats:
https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Per36&CF=GP*GE*40&PlayerPosition=C

You can pull every stat in the world on kantar, the fact still remains that he has way more impact on the game then Mitch at this point. He is a better player than mitch in more ways the one. On top of that, the starting line up has been a minus in every game we loss.

But the Knicks are invested in some guys over others, and starting them and giving them more games as a starter is good for the long term.

Dont burn them out. That's all.

Lots of teams do this, as well they should, especially high lotto picks and guys that just show up early in their careers (as with Trier/Mitch).

If you are a playoff team and especially a deep playoff team, maybe you don't need to give your rookies that much playing time.

Duh, right?

Chandler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute.

So clearly Fizz is focusing different things than just managing to win the game.

Not true....Frank was guarding Oladipo when he drilled the 3 from the corner...scroll to 1:55 min mark....The ball was kicked to Oladipo off an offensive rebound but Frank was there...

That falls more on a broken play which Frank covered Bogdonovic who was cutting in as the ball was in play for the offensive rbound which Frank then tried to recover outside after it was established Pacers got the rebound. That was a bang-bang play that ass just bad luck the way the ball bounced for Pacers to get the offensive rebound.

Dipos pull up 3 with Hardaway giving him to much space was more of a man to man set. I'm not even looking to knock Timmy in any way as I even felt the Levert layup wasn't bad defense and he contested the **** pretty well though he let him in to deep. And Levert got the layup at a hard angle which is more credit to him than anything. But point being Frank is more advanced defensively and offers more length than Timmy. Any coach strictly focused on wins and losses most likely urilzes Frank more in these situations.

Both of you make good points. I do
Think though end of game demands frank on their best wing or pg. just makes too much sense and Franks teammates know this

The problem isn't frank, It's fiz rotation when the game is in clutch mode (5 min left) . He hasn't been pressing the right buttons at all.

He either stays with a defensive line up too long(scoring droughts), takes guys out to soon, leaves guys in too long, put in players for like 5 minute spurts, botch plays out of time outs.

I get that he is trying things out, but it's really costing us easy wins, he is starting to remind me of Fisher.