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newyorknewyork
Posts: 29856 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
11/6/2018 8:14 PM LAST EDITED: 11/6/2018 8:14 PM
Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute. That falls more on a broken play which Frank covered Bogdonovic who was cutting in as the ball was in play for the offensive rbound which Frank then tried to recover outside after it was established Pacers got the rebound. That was a bang-bang play that ass just bad luck the way the ball bounced for Pacers to get the offensive rebound. Dipos pull up 3 with Hardaway giving him to much space was more of a man to man set. I'm not even looking to knock Timmy in any way as I even felt the Levert layup wasn't bad defense and he contested the **** pretty well though he let him in to deep. And Levert got the layup at a hard angle which is more credit to him than anything. But point being Frank is more advanced defensively and offers more length than Timmy. Any coach strictly focused on wins and losses most likely urilzes Frank more in these situations. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
11/6/2018 8:20 PM
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. Talk about ten year olds Martin.. Last season Kanter was a better defender near the rim than Clint Capella (among others), someone who gets raves around here for being a two-way player. Look it up. Just because you dont see Kanter routinely sending the rock into orbit, doesnt mean he cant defend in the paint. Does a good job of staying between his man, and the rim. When Kanter is paired with a shot blocker like KP, the results have been very good, which is why Id like to see Kanter paired more with Robinson. Dont get this philosophy that Kanter has to be an All-Star or he's trade bait. Thats what he would be if his defense was on par with his offense. No one is suggesting he should be paid like one. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/6/2018 8:20 PM
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. Scharzneggar has a better shot of being the next miss universe. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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martin
Posts: 68500 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/6/2018 8:26 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. If you'd like to make a case for your argument, go ahead. I mean it's obvious that you looked up some stats but for whatever reason didn't want to show us the details. Why is that? No one with an iota of an eye test will suggest that Kanter is better at the rim than Capella. No one. At least we now know why your starting point with Kanter is. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
11/6/2018 8:41 PM
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. I didnt post it, because we had this conversation last season and I dont feel like digging it up, especially when its preceeded by... AHAHAHAHAHAHA
I wouldnt have looked those numbers up last season.if my eye test told me something different. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/6/2018 8:47 PM LAST EDITED: 11/6/2018 9:00 PM
Gustav - Here you go - this is the one site that breaks it down into Perimeter and Interior defense. Kanter ranks right around SEVENTY FIVE in the NBA. Probably 10-15th percentile amongst bigs. Yeah, solid interior defense.
With Kanter on court we gave up 5 points more per 100 posessions than we score, without him that got cut to 3.5 points deficit. We were better without him on court. And it's not like he spend the bulk of his time defending the perimeter, so you don;t really have an argument here. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/6/2018 8:51 PM
KP was the 3rd best defender in the league, even with a average perimetr defense score, and Frank was top ten in perimter defense. From the same website
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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martin
Posts: 68500 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/6/2018 8:51 PM
GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. big time cop out, you have a lot of excuses to not really back up your assertions. And in part that's why you are laughed at. Kanter is a bad weak side defender cause he is slow to recognize. Kanter is also grounded, no lift. It's the reason why he barely ever dunks the ball or gets blocks. Kanter doesn't move his feet well on defense. Dude is strong as heck and sneaky around the basket. It's why when he does post and gets low position he is good around the rim offensively. He uses the other side of the rim well. Defensively, he sucks. Both around the perimeter (he never gets out there), within the PnR, and around the rim. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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Uptown
Posts: 30878 Alba Posts: 3 Joined: 4/1/2008 Member: #1883 |
11/6/2018 9:09 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute. Got it!!! Thanks for clarifying your point of view...True, the Oladipo 3 from the corner was off an offensive rebound and Frank was in scramble mode, but just wanted to point out it wasn't all on Timmy or Fiz...sometimes the bounce of the ball can do-you-in too...As far as Fiz is concerned, to me, he is a breath of fresh air...He seems to be more concerned about developing our youth for the future and is all in on the complete rebuild. It also appears that the front office and coach are completely on the same page for the first time in decades...There will be lots of experimenting this year, shuffling of lineups and player evaluations...Fans who are belly-aching about wins-n-losses are not seeing the big picture. |
GustavBahler
Posts: 41138 Alba Posts: 15 Joined: 7/12/2010 Member: #3186 |
11/6/2018 9:27 PM
martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:martin wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Kanter has been an above average rim protector. Not a cop out, a choice. Look up his defense out to 10ft from the rim. Problem is some of you are expecting a lot of splash plays. Fizdale.. Position-wise, he's sliding his feet," he added. "He's smart. That's why he'll succeed defensively. He's not going to out-quick anyone. We know that. He's not a guy who's like Mitchell who's going to grab shots off the top of the backboard. He's a position defender and smart." Exactly |
martin
Posts: 68500 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/6/2018 10:22 PM
I like the NBA stats pages, lots of filters and such.
Centers, per 36 minutes, 2017-18 season, played at least 40 games. Smooths stats out for fairness and better comparisons. Maybe you can add minimum minutes played but doesn't add much. The numbers speak for themselves. Kanter always in bottom half of the group. Hustle stats, Contested 2pt shots: Player defense < 6ft from rim: General Defensive Stats: Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
11/6/2018 11:09 PM
martin wrote:I like the NBA stats pages, lots of filters and such. You can pull every stat in the world on kantar, the fact still remains that he has way more impact on the game then Mitch at this point. He is a better player than mitch in more ways the one. On top of that, the starting line up has been a minus in every game we loss. ES
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martin
Posts: 68500 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/6/2018 11:17 PM
knicks1248 wrote:martin wrote:I like the NBA stats pages, lots of filters and such. I don't know what your point is and have no idea what it has to do with what I posted; I've made no mention of Mitch with regards to Kanter. Mitch is probably starting cause the Knicks wanted to go with youth and/or defense. Mitch is going to be a cornerstone of the Knicks. Same with KP, Knox, Frank and others to some degree (Trier, Dot), unless they are traded. Those guys will continue to get playing time and probably starting time, all things considered. It's good for the long term growth of the team. That's what we all want right? If you only want to focus on players that get stats and really have little long term prospects with the team, hop on the Kanter bandwagon and beat your head against the wall all you want, don't bother me none. If you want to try to gain some insight into why Mitch, Frank and maybe some others are starting, and why guys like Kanter, Trey aren't starting, read up and let the info flow into you. Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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martin
Posts: 68500 Alba Posts: 108 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #2 USA |
11/6/2018 11:21 PM
Did KP deserve to start his rookie year? Probably not. Did he EARN it over another vet? Probably not.
But the Knicks are invested in some guys over others, and starting them and giving them more games as a starter is good for the long term. Dont burn them out. That's all. Lots of teams do this, as well they should, especially high lotto picks and guys that just show up early in their careers (as with Trier/Mitch). If you are a playoff team and especially a deep playoff team, maybe you don't need to give your rookies that much playing time. Duh, right? Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
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Chandler
Posts: 25983 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 11/26/2015 Member: #6197 |
11/7/2018 8:28 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute. Both of you make good points. I do (5)(5)
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knicks1248
Posts: 42059 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 2/3/2004 Member: #582 |
11/7/2018 8:46 AM
Chandler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Uptown wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Not to pick on Timmy. But we have seen Levert and Oladipo finish the Knicks off with last min/second scores. And we have just now witnessed Lavine make a last 2nd drive attempt on to steal and OT win. Frank our best perimeter player wasn't guarding any of these guys during these moments. Fizz stated that he wanted Timmy to be tested in these situations and not to call on Frank even though thisay be his best attribute. The problem isn't frank, It's fiz rotation when the game is in clutch mode (5 min left) . He hasn't been pressing the right buttons at all. He either stays with a defensive line up too long(scoring droughts), takes guys out to soon, leaves guys in too long, put in players for like 5 minute spurts, botch plays out of time outs. I get that he is trying things out, but it's really costing us easy wins, he is starting to remind me of Fisher. ES
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