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knicks1248
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11/6/2018  2:38 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Frank played horrible and played only 16 mins in a double over time game. Robinson played 11 mins.

Trier and Kanter who both played well played 41 mins and both overtimes. Vonleh, Herzonia, Dotson, Mudiay all got 30+ mins as they all were producing.

The players that produced played and got mins and the players that didn't sat.

The blaming of rotations is typical sofa coaching.

But he went with UDFA Trier in the starting lineup over Herzonia at SF and Dotson at SG probably just to evaluate. Don't think it was about game planning for the Bulls. Probably how this season is going to go for the most part. So be prepared to be upset going forward because most of the decision made will be about development and evaluation over game planning vs the other team to steal wins.

Frank is 0 for his last 11 attempts down town. He is on a Tim Hardaway jr 2017 level shooting slump these last couple of games. Frank keeps it up Mudiay will eventually take his spot. Weird how he went from playing so well vs the GS and Nets with so much confidence shooting 41% from down town to 0-11 and no confidence.

he has pulled burke out in a few games this yr while he was red hot, like last night

Frank got a ton of minutes last yr, while dotson got nothing until APRIL, and who's the better player this season.

NOLAD, frank played good for 2 of the last 6 games, the 4 he played bad in, was -35 combine. Dude is not ready to be a starter in the NBA, thats not a knock, that's reality.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=MISC&group=1&sort=2&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0

frank +/- is the worse in the NBA for his minutes..sorry..it's true

Dotson started when Hardaway went down with injury and played horrible. Knicks also had Lee in the fold last season. A lot harder to get Dotson mins on the wing last season compared to this one with Knox and Lee both out with injury.

Coaches go a lot by film and analytics. Frank was apart if 80+% of the Knicks most successful lineups last season. That is why he got consistent mins. Sorry they don't go by the Knicks1248 school of basketball logic.

what does that have to do with right now where he is a -61 on the season.

Yeah frank and Dotson were pretty bad last season, but who's more improved this season.

Bruh, you made the comment about Frank getting mins while Dotson got nothing until April last season. Do you just ramble on without even knowing what you say?

Dotson doesn't have to direct an NBA offense and is a few yrs older. Dotson knows exactly what his game and nitch is. Play defense, rebound the ball, capitalize one his catch and shoot opportunities.

Frank has more on his plate and more to figure out in terms of what his game is offensively. He looked his best vs GS and Nets when the team looked like it had an offensive plan of him dishing off the a big by the 3 point line and then him recollecting the ball in a PNR situation. As well as feeding wings coming off of picks for 3s. It was executed at a high pace and he looked decisive in his actions as if he was following a game plan.

He isn't ready to take on more responsibility that come with being a pg in the nba, like knowing when to shoot, knowing when to pass, knowing when to cut, knowing a good shot from a bad one, know when to push the pace.

And besides, 80% of franks possession he hands the ball off and runs to the corner, he plays east to west..There's nothing you can say to justify a -61...

ES
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BigDaddyG
Posts: 26165
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11/6/2018  2:58 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
GustavBahler
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11/6/2018  2:59 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

You need to peer through the looking glass with the DEFENSE filter. Might answer your questions.

You drone on about Kanter and his performance and NEVER for one take into consideration defense.

Try it out.

Over and over and over again posters mention Kanter and his lack or defense as a pretty valid for the way Kanter has been handled, not to mention the realities of the rebuild situation, and yet you seem to gloss over all of those points.

You are the reigning King of glossing stuff over on this board.

You're expecting a player who can put up 23/24/7 assists to be equally as skilled on the defensive end, in a league where offense comes first now. Get real.

Kanter's defense this early into the season wasnt so bad that he should have been benched so quickly for someone so green on offense.

Taking too much for Data, and not focusing on how Fizdale interacts with some of his players, is what go him bounced from Memphis. Not just Gasol. Even though was acknowledged to be a first rate coach.

Its about more than numbers. No one expected this team to make a playoff run, dont see the urgency to bench your best rebounder, post player, this soon. Just like I dont see the urgency to start Frank. This feels more like NBA2K.

Nalod
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11/6/2018  3:00 PM
Fiz goes with whats working.
Enes was here, and last year of his contract. New coach is not always a nice thing for a player.
He is playing for a new contract and wants to put up a big year. 2nd game of a back to back and he sat both Frank and Mitch who both were ineffective.
Rainman, your narrative usually goes to Frank.
You read an article today about Fiz not closing out games as some coaching savant you can evaluate. Guess what, Fiz is not a complete coach. Memphis was in "Win now mode" with Gasol and Conley both signed to monster deals. Add Parsons and you are landlocked. Young coach made some big mistakes with them. Young coach also not good closing out with a "win now" team. You are very consistent that you don't fathom that a young coach or player can improve. Just because you have no appetite to rebuild does not mean your basketball acumen is more advanced than others. Makes you look foolish at times actually because this team is not about the here and now. Mills tells you, the press told you, and most of us tell you. Then Bondy or Berman chime in and your gullible to take the bait and run with it thinking your now smart.
Knicks are not a very good team. Even if you draw up good plays they have to be executed. Our best player last night was Trier and hew as awful for 3/4's. Undrafted Free agent. That's how bad it was last night. Enes was a beast under the basket on offense.
As for him being treated like a scrub I doubt that. Do we know if Fiz sat him down and respectfully told him what was up? He don't have to like it, but he was he given that consideration? I don't know, but if so then he was not disrespected.
Enes was told he is not part of the future and I would go so far to say he is on the trading block if there is one. Way to early.
Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
newyorknewyork
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11/6/2018  3:03 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespec
Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

The only thing I can think of as to why Fizz has been willing to shelf Kanter is the film on him when Fizz watches it must have been pretty bad for Fizz taste. I drafted Kanter on my Fantasy team expecting him to ball out with KP out and him starting getting around 34-36 mins a night. Kanter if given 30+ mins a night would put up big stats in pts and rebs. So to me the only thing I can think of to why Fizz would bench him is that he doesn't like what he sees when he watches film. Since he is a proffessed film guy.

Have to disagree about Frank not earning his spot. While he has played poorly enough to lose his spot at the moment. He had a strong pre season and general perception amount fans was that he did indeed earn his spot even though it was at SF.

Uptown
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11/6/2018  3:03 PM
I'm noticing in the game threads that some are being critical of Fiz's plays or lack there of....First off, I find it ironic that the same people asking for patience when it comes to Frank are the same ones (for the most part) being impatient with Fiz who has been a head coach almost as long as Frank has been a pro....

Second, you can't expect a coach to empty out the entire playbook after 2 weeks of training camp and 11 games into the season with the youngest team in the league...Fiz even said before the season started that he was going to take it slow with this young group....With that said, most of the sets the Knicks run is similar to what most other teams run...Pin downs for the shooter which lead to staggered double screens at times, Pick and Roll, some flare screens, dribble hand-offs and some read and react....The problem we are having is we dont have any players that can get a good shot on their own every time down the floor. Players who know how to break a play to make one....

Last night, The Bulls did nothing special on offense, they just had a special offensive player...Most of Lavine's baskets down the stretch and in over time were one-on-one...The 3's he made were with a hand in the face, the drives to the basket were off one-on-one moves. Its amazing how good the offense looks when you have elite players running it. We are not a very good team and we lack any elite offensive players so of course we are going to struggle whether we are running Triangle (did I just say that) Bob Knights Motion, the Princeton offense, etc....

GustavBahler
Posts: 34948
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11/6/2018  3:08 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.

Nalod
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11/6/2018  3:22 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.

So by pulling him away from the basket might be good for the team, but not for Kanter.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
martin
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11/6/2018  3:23 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

You need to peer through the looking glass with the DEFENSE filter. Might answer your questions.

You drone on about Kanter and his performance and NEVER for one take into consideration defense.

Try it out.

Over and over and over again posters mention Kanter and his lack or defense as a pretty valid for the way Kanter has been handled, not to mention the realities of the rebuild situation, and yet you seem to gloss over all of those points.

You are the reigning King of glossing stuff over on this board.

You're expecting a player who can put up 23/24/7 assists to be equally as skilled on the defensive end, in a league where offense comes first now. Get real.

Kanter's defense this early into the season wasnt so bad that he should have been benched so quickly for someone so green on offense.

Taking too much for Data, and not focusing on how Fizdale interacts with some of his players, is what go him bounced from Memphis. Not just Gasol. Even though was acknowledged to be a first rate coach.

Its about more than numbers. No one expected this team to make a playoff run, dont see the urgency to bench your best rebounder, post player, this soon. Just like I dont see the urgency to start Frank. This feels more like NBA2K.

You are correct, it IS about more than numbers, especially with Kanter and his rebounding and points. He has been doing those 2 things most of his career, and he continues those with NY. Also, as of 10 games in, NY is a better rebounding team when Kanter is OFF the court this year. So for all of his individual stats in rebounding, the team is better off without him. Weird, right? Probably just means he is taking away rebounds from other players and those pad his stats.

With the Knicks, especially this year, that baseline for Kanter of getting rebounds and points around the rim are expected. I am pretty positive coaches want to see him knowing when to rotate on defense, how to play PnR, shoot with a bit of distance, recognizing double teams and passing out of them out of the post; those are his expectations and what he will be graded on.

Similarly, we know Frank plays very good D, that's taken for granted. He will be graded on what he does from an offensive perspective.

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martin
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11/6/2018  3:24 PM
Nalod wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.

So by pulling him away from the basket might be good for the team, but not for Kanter.

GustavBahler is Kanter's Angry Grandpa Agent

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newyorknewyork
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11/6/2018  4:00 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Frank played horrible and played only 16 mins in a double over time game. Robinson played 11 mins.

Trier and Kanter who both played well played 41 mins and both overtimes. Vonleh, Herzonia, Dotson, Mudiay all got 30+ mins as they all were producing.

The players that produced played and got mins and the players that didn't sat.

The blaming of rotations is typical sofa coaching.

But he went with UDFA Trier in the starting lineup over Herzonia at SF and Dotson at SG probably just to evaluate. Don't think it was about game planning for the Bulls. Probably how this season is going to go for the most part. So be prepared to be upset going forward because most of the decision made will be about development and evaluation over game planning vs the other team to steal wins.

Frank is 0 for his last 11 attempts down town. He is on a Tim Hardaway jr 2017 level shooting slump these last couple of games. Frank keeps it up Mudiay will eventually take his spot. Weird how he went from playing so well vs the GS and Nets with so much confidence shooting 41% from down town to 0-11 and no confidence.

he has pulled burke out in a few games this yr while he was red hot, like last night

Frank got a ton of minutes last yr, while dotson got nothing until APRIL, and who's the better player this season.

NOLAD, frank played good for 2 of the last 6 games, the 4 he played bad in, was -35 combine. Dude is not ready to be a starter in the NBA, thats not a knock, that's reality.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2018&category=MISC&group=1&sort=2&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0

frank +/- is the worse in the NBA for his minutes..sorry..it's true

Dotson started when Hardaway went down with injury and played horrible. Knicks also had Lee in the fold last season. A lot harder to get Dotson mins on the wing last season compared to this one with Knox and Lee both out with injury.

Coaches go a lot by film and analytics. Frank was apart if 80+% of the Knicks most successful lineups last season. That is why he got consistent mins. Sorry they don't go by the Knicks1248 school of basketball logic.

what does that have to do with right now where he is a -61 on the season.

Yeah frank and Dotson were pretty bad last season, but who's more improved this season.

Bruh, you made the comment about Frank getting mins while Dotson got nothing until April last season. Do you just ramble on without even knowing what you say?

Dotson doesn't have to direct an NBA offense and is a few yrs older. Dotson knows exactly what his game and nitch is. Play defense, rebound the ball, capitalize one his catch and shoot opportunities.

Frank has more on his plate and more to figure out in terms of what his game is offensively. He looked his best vs GS and Nets when the team looked like it had an offensive plan of him dishing off the a big by the 3 point line and then him recollecting the ball in a PNR situation. As well as feeding wings coming off of picks for 3s. It was executed at a high pace and he looked decisive in his actions as if he was following a game plan.

He isn't ready to take on more responsibility that come with being a pg in the nba, like knowing when to shoot, knowing when to pass, knowing when to cut, knowing a good shot from a bad one, know when to push the pace.

And besides, 80% of franks possession he hands the ball off and runs to the corner, he plays east to west..There's nothing you can say to justify a -61...

He played poorly and his mins got reduced to 16 during a double OT game. There was a total of 58mins available to be played vs the Bulls. Fizz pulled him when he saw he was playing poorly.

Your harping on a player that didn't play much last game. If he continues to play poorly his mins will probably continue to get reduced. But he will probably be given a good leash since Frank playing well is very impactfull to the teams success. And he covers so much ground for Fizz defensively which Fizz probably salavates over in the film room.


He looked really good for 2 games and he has looked pretty poor for the last 4. Coaches will evaluate what the difference was and how to get him back to the level he was playing at vs GS and the Nets.

Chandler
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11/6/2018  4:58 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespec
Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

The only thing I can think of as to why Fizz has been willing to shelf Kanter is the film on him when Fizz watches it must have been pretty bad for Fizz taste. I drafted Kanter on my Fantasy team expecting him to ball out with KP out and him starting getting around 34-36 mins a night. Kanter if given 30+ mins a night would put up big stats in pts and rebs. So to me the only thing I can think of to why Fizz would bench him is that he doesn't like what he sees when he watches film. Since he is a proffessed film guy.

Have to disagree about Frank not earning his spot. While he has played poorly enough to lose his spot at the moment. He had a strong pre season and general perception amount fans was that he did indeed earn his spot even though it was at SF.


At first i was thinking why not play him more in the hope you can flip him before trade deadline for something -- assuming you don't want him next year and i don't think the Knicks do

Then i thought perhaps they do want him next year, but truly only envision him in the current role -- offense off the bench, someone who can post up when the offense is otherwise stagnant. Playing him in this role now gives us a chance to assess his play in that role, his mindset etc. Yes it might hurt his FA but that's not our issue it's his. So this might just be their though process. They only see him in this role in the future so let's get that rolling now.

Now if they don't see him in their future and would be happy to flip him it does seems debatable whether to sit him. Seems to invite lower trade offers.

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
meloshouldgo
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11/6/2018  5:32 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Asmuch as I like his spirit and his personality, I agree with this assessment. Don't think he should start unless he plays defense.The youth movement need the minutes to learn, he doesn't.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
TripleThreat
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11/6/2018  5:33 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.


Kanter AND Burke have been abandoning their defensive assignments to reset for offense. It's because offensive counting stats are going to their best perceived pathway to get a better contract when they hit free agency. Neither have a future with this team and they both know it. It's one thing to hold your assignment and simply not execute, but just to ****ing abandon it is akin to straight up ****ing mutiny.

I keep hearing about Kanter's rebounding. If you took ANY starting pivot in the NBA and told him he no longer had any RIM PROTECTION responsibilities and had no accountability to run the defense and make defensive calls and had no responsibility to space the floor, then you'd see that players rebounding numbers go up. You know how to drive up your rebounding numbers? Camp around the rim. You know how you can camp around the rim? DON'T DEFEND THE RIM. DON'T RUN THE DEFENSE. DON'T SPACE THE FLOOR.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't defend the rim, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't quarterback your defense, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't space the floor, you won't be playing much.

Who gives a **** about Kanter's brand?

You want to stay on the floor? Play in a way where no one can take you off. Defend the mother****ing rim. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he? Space the mother****ing floor. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he?

Abandoning your defensive assignments is big giant **** you to the other four guys on the floor humping their asses to make a stop.

Free agents won't give a flying **** what happens with Kanter. FAs pick most money/most years/highest AAV/pathway to contending/pathway to starting/pathway to staying in the league.

But his defense is better now!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He gives such good effort!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Look at his rebounding!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He's gotten better every stop!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Then you will try to find pivots who can't defend the rim but start or get heavy minutes. You mean guys who can space the floor with a three point shot? Or rookies that teams want to evaluate? Or teams who are so gutted they have no one else?

Come up with ten more reasons why you think Kanter should get more than he has now.

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

There I've answered your next ten reasons.

"Should have paid Lin and rid ourselves of Melo. Lin makes every team better." - HofstraBBall 11/12/2018
meloshouldgo
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11/6/2018  5:39 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.

Fizdale is here to coach the team to the best ooutcome for the Knicks not to the "wants" of individual players. Kanter doesn't play defense, he can still come off the bench and put up his 20/20/5 he is being compensated to do that. This NOT a bad message to send to anyone, it actually shows we value defense and it;s a great message to send to FAs.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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11/6/2018  5:41 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespec
Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

The only thing I can think of as to why Fizz has been willing to shelf Kanter is the film on him when Fizz watches it must have been pretty bad for Fizz taste. I drafted Kanter on my Fantasy team expecting him to ball out with KP out and him starting getting around 34-36 mins a night. Kanter if given 30+ mins a night would put up big stats in pts and rebs. So to me the only thing I can think of to why Fizz would bench him is that he doesn't like what he sees when he watches film. Since he is a proffessed film guy.

Have to disagree about Frank not earning his spot. While he has played poorly enough to lose his spot at the moment. He had a strong pre season and general perception amount fans was that he did indeed earn his spot even though it was at SF.


I thought after 5 games Frank and Thomas needed to be taken out of the starting 5. I did not see Kanter losing his position and I think he has continued to play like he should be starting. Franks first couple of games at the point were good but he seems like any confidence gained is gone again.
The Knicks really needed Kanter's scoring last night with Tim out. I love Mitch but I don't think he beat Kanter out for the starting spot. I also think at some point Franks lack of offense pulls him out of the starting line up if guys are truly earning their spots.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
meloshouldgo
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11/6/2018  5:42 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.


Kanter AND Burke have been abandoning their defensive assignments to reset for offense. It's because offensive counting stats are going to their best perceived pathway to get a better contract when they hit free agency. Neither have a future with this team and they both know it. It's one thing to hold your assignment and simply not execute, but just to ****ing abandon it is akin to straight up ****ing mutiny.

I keep hearing about Kanter's rebounding. If you took ANY starting pivot in the NBA and told him he no longer had any RIM PROTECTION responsibilities and had no accountability to run the defense and make defensive calls and had no responsibility to space the floor, then you'd see that players rebounding numbers go up. You know how to drive up your rebounding numbers? Camp around the rim. You know how you can camp around the rim? DON'T DEFEND THE RIM. DON'T RUN THE DEFENSE. DON'T SPACE THE FLOOR.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't defend the rim, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't quarterback your defense, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't space the floor, you won't be playing much.

Who gives a **** about Kanter's brand?

You want to stay on the floor? Play in a way where no one can take you off. Defend the mother****ing rim. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he? Space the mother****ing floor. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he?

Abandoning your defensive assignments is big giant **** you to the other four guys on the floor humping their asses to make a stop.

Free agents won't give a flying **** what happens with Kanter. FAs pick most money/most years/highest AAV/pathway to contending/pathway to starting/pathway to staying in the league.

But his defense is better now!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He gives such good effort!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Look at his rebounding!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He's gotten better every stop!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Then you will try to find pivots who can't defend the rim but start or get heavy minutes. You mean guys who can space the floor with a three point shot? Or rookies that teams want to evaluate? Or teams who are so gutted they have no one else?

Come up with ten more reasons why you think Kanter should get more than he has now.

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

There I've answered your next ten reasons.

whut he said

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Chandler
Posts: 22783
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Joined: 11/26/2015
Member: #6197

11/6/2018  6:02 PM
I'm wondering whether the people who think Kanter should have been kept in starting rotation, also agree Frank should be.

1) of the two, Frank is more certainly a part of our future and sending him back to the pine can do more to harm his confidence than insisting he play through this adversity
2) of the two, Frank is more probably the one to improve (as Kanter is pretty much doing exactly what he has always done -- whether you thnk that's good or bad)
3) of the two, I don't see why Kanter needs to start. He can provide offense but not flow. You can put him in when the offense otherwise stalls. Frank helps at a minimum on every defensive possession

As much as it is a test to see how Frank and/or Kanter react to the current team state, I'm more concerned whether Fizz knows how to develop a pg and whether he has an offensive game plan. I'm not dissing him. Fizz brings energy and insists on D. All that is good.

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
ramtour420
Posts: 23571
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
11/6/2018  6:07 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespectful.

Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.


Players and free agents will wonder how much cap room their suitors have, how they connect with the coaches and the culture of the front office. Enes Kanter might rank 180 on their list of concerns regarding the Knicks. I agree, Enes made minor improvements on his weaknesses, but he's still bad. And he's not part of the future going forward. Yeah, you can make an argument that Enes is our best performing player. I'd argue that ou can't see the floor and play defense that badly to be considered the best performer on any team. But it doesn't matter, even if he is. We still suck with or without him. I'd rather see us suck with MitchRob starting

Its about their brand. No player wants to get benched for a rookie this early in the season, especially when they are most nights the best rebounder, and scorer.

Kanter traditionally goes on a tear early if you feature him in the paint. Fizdale pulled him away from the rim, by the arc. Thats why he wasnt having the same impact.

Kanter showed last night why that has been a mistake. Again, there were ways to do this without disrespecting a vet who can put up 20/20 games, for a rook.

Players want to get paid, they want to be treated with respect, they dont want their brand tarnished either.


Kanter AND Burke have been abandoning their defensive assignments to reset for offense. It's because offensive counting stats are going to their best perceived pathway to get a better contract when they hit free agency. Neither have a future with this team and they both know it. It's one thing to hold your assignment and simply not execute, but just to ****ing abandon it is akin to straight up ****ing mutiny.

I keep hearing about Kanter's rebounding. If you took ANY starting pivot in the NBA and told him he no longer had any RIM PROTECTION responsibilities and had no accountability to run the defense and make defensive calls and had no responsibility to space the floor, then you'd see that players rebounding numbers go up. You know how to drive up your rebounding numbers? Camp around the rim. You know how you can camp around the rim? DON'T DEFEND THE RIM. DON'T RUN THE DEFENSE. DON'T SPACE THE FLOOR.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't defend the rim, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't quarterback your defense, you won't be playing much.

If you are a pivot in the NBA and you don't space the floor, you won't be playing much.

Who gives a **** about Kanter's brand?

You want to stay on the floor? Play in a way where no one can take you off. Defend the mother****ing rim. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he? Space the mother****ing floor. You will say, well he can't. Then he won't play much will he?

Abandoning your defensive assignments is big giant **** you to the other four guys on the floor humping their asses to make a stop.

Free agents won't give a flying **** what happens with Kanter. FAs pick most money/most years/highest AAV/pathway to contending/pathway to starting/pathway to staying in the league.

But his defense is better now!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He gives such good effort!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Look at his rebounding!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

He's gotten better every stop!

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

Then you will try to find pivots who can't defend the rim but start or get heavy minutes. You mean guys who can space the floor with a three point shot? Or rookies that teams want to evaluate? Or teams who are so gutted they have no one else?

Come up with ten more reasons why you think Kanter should get more than he has now.

He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.
He can't defend the mother****ing rim.

There I've answered your next ten reasons.

Let me add a bit. When you miss a shot on purpose to get a rebound and a putback you are being very selfish, not a team player. If that make would have given an assist to someone it makes it all the worse. If you don't run the floor on a fast break, if you leave your defensive assignment to position yourself for a rebound while having a bad rep on D your stats will look more and more empty. How about this comparison: when you have less impact on the outcome of a game than Jared Jeffries you should not be surprised about getting benched. This is coming from someone who actually likes Kanter as a person. He would have been a perennial all star if he played average D. It could happen as he is making some progress on that front. I really like his attitude as he is really trying to let his play speak for itself. If he can average 1.5 blocks per game he will be an all star. However when you play help d you more often than not surrender position for a rebound. When you are on the youngest team in the league you got to get better or watch yourself lose pt to those who are willing to do so. So far Kanter hasn't lost playing time, just his starting position.
So

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one." -J.Lennon
newyorknewyork
Posts: 28107
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/6/2018  6:35 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:Fizdale is trying to balance rebuilding, with showing this team how to win. I agree with the objectives Fizdale has shared. Believe his achilles heel is how he deals with vets. Benching Kanter this early, after one bad game, showed up a proud player, who is arguably also the hardest working player on the floor.

If Fizdale wanted to give Mitch more minutes, he could start Kanter and Mitch together, or sub in Robinson for Kanter sooner rather than later. Dont believe Fizdale appreciates that he isnt doing his rep with vets any favors. Especially when we see what Kanter did last night.

As I said last week, this is precisely what got Fisher on bad terms with his vets when he was coach. Hope Fiz improves in that dept.

The Kanter thing is reminding of his fall out with gasol, only kanter is handling it better.


Who cares? Kanter isn't Gasoline and he probably won't be here next year.

Because its not a good idea to send out the message that you treat the best performing player on your team right now, like a scrub.


Best player might be a stretch. Even if he is, again, who cares? We suck and need to start producing better talent. He's a bench player who's getting plenty of minutes, so he shouldn't be upset. He's no Gasol. If he's unhappy he'll have to improve in D or just deal with it. The coaches on Utah and OKC came to the same conclusion on Kanter, so this shouldn't be a shock.

Kanter has gotten better at every stop.

I will try again. Benching your best performing player, just a few games into the season, for a 2nd round draft pick, who hasnt played organized ball for a year, was disrespec
Players, free agents (who arent named Durant) will have a good reason to wonder if that could happen to them in NY, when another rookie comes along.

Fizdale kept talking about players earning the starting job. Frank didnt earn it, hasnt played consistently enough to show that he should keep it. Yet there he is. Its a fine line beteeen rebuilding, and another standard for some players.

This could have been avoided if Kanter and Robinson started together. But Fizdale seems to be sending a message to Kanter. Doesnt need to be Gasol to be treatded with respect. Been a great team player, positive influence, and a hard worker. Thats not someone a coach should be disssing with a benching. After one bad game against his coach's old team.

The only thing I can think of as to why Fizz has been willing to shelf Kanter is the film on him when Fizz watches it must have been pretty bad for Fizz taste. I drafted Kanter on my Fantasy team expecting him to ball out with KP out and him starting getting around 34-36 mins a night. Kanter if given 30+ mins a night would put up big stats in pts and rebs. So to me the only thing I can think of to why Fizz would bench him is that he doesn't like what he sees when he watches film. Since he is a proffessed film guy.

Have to disagree about Frank not earning his spot. While he has played poorly enough to lose his spot at the moment. He had a strong pre season and general perception amount fans was that he did indeed earn his spot even though it was at SF.


I thought after 5 games Frank and Thomas needed to be taken out of the starting 5. I did not see Kanter losing his position and I think he has continued to play like he should be starting. Franks first couple of games at the point were good but he seems like any confidence gained is gone again.
The Knicks really needed Kanter's scoring last night with Tim out. I love Mitch but I don't think he beat Kanter out for the starting spot. I also think at some point Franks lack of offense pulls him out of the starting line up if guys are truly earning their spots.

If Frank continues to play the way he has played these last couple of games then he will get pulled.

But what I don't get is why Frank and Robinson's 16 and 11 min games in a double overtime loss are the ones being harped on. Kanter played all the meaningful mins he could handle last night. The game was close as hell throughout and stayed tied though the 4th and overtime and came down to a 0.2 foul in the end. Mudiay got starters mins last night, Burke had more mins than Frank last night. Kanter got 41 mins last night.

Had every opportunity to win the game last night.


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