Vmart wrote:Last years developmental failure is hurt Frank. He needed to start and play heavy minutes last year from the very beginning. What I see is Frank doesn’t have the stamina necessary to play fast. He has no legs left that is why his shooting is getting worse and worse. He is aiming his shots. The shots are not instinctively shot.

Frank needs to trust his shot and let it fly.

Very much disagree. Frank got 20 minutes per game because it was all he could physically handle. Pushing a player past the limits of their endurance leads to injuries.

Frank was lucky to have Hornacek as a coach. He was infinitely patient with Frank Dont recall seeing him getting yelled at like his teammates once.

Didnt matter how poorly Frank was playing, how many careless turnovers, how many times he passed up on an open look. Frank got those minutes, like money in the bank.

Hornacek gave all the minutes an 19 year old kid could handle, playing against grown men who were also faster than he was.

As others have mentioned, if its a conditioning issue, its on Frank at this point. Early in the season, all summer to get ready, no known injuries, and he's young.

Knickoftime wrote:So do I have this straight, after every good game during his second season we're going to post feel good threads about his future and after every bad game we're going to question his future?

The definition of a hurt fan thats been in a horible relationship for 40 yrs. Still waiting for the relationship to improve, while going to UK sites for therapy.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:Last years developmental failure is hurt Frank. He needed to start and play heavy minutes last year from the very beginning. What I see is Frank doesn’t have the stamina necessary to play fast. He has no legs left that is why his shooting is getting worse and worse. He is aiming his shots. The shots are not instinctively shot.

Frank needs to trust his shot and let it fly.

Very much disagree. Frank got 20 minutes per game because it was all he could physically handle. Pushing a player past the limits of their endurance leads to injuries.

Frank was lucky to have Hornacek as a coach. He was infinitely patient with Frank Dont recall seeing him getting yelled at like his teammates once.

Didnt matter how poorly Frank was playing, how many careless turnovers, how many times he passed up on an open look. Frank got those minutes, like money in the bank.

Hornacek gave all the minutes an 19 year old kid could handle, playing against grown men who were also faster than he was.

As others have mentioned, if its a conditioning issue, its on Frank at this point. Early in the season, all summer to get ready, no known injuries, and he's young.

I agree its “conditioning” and he is at his limits for now. Yes he is 20 and played pro a few years but he looks very young and Perhaps fatigued at times. 2nd night of a back to back and he was manhandled by a big faster and stronger John Wall and Beal prior. Frank has been playing big minutes thus far. My point is the kid is physically immature and was still growing last we checked.
While just two years older Mudiay looks like he is going to have a stocky build which makes him look like he is pushing 30.

Frank might end up looking like Jamal Crawford for most of his career, tall, thin frame. Frank has a better chance of getting through this if he stays aggressive. He'll have a much better idea of how much stamina he needs to stay on the court.

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

"right the ship".......You make the assumption it was on course and we must do something to put it correct. There was no course, no destination but a starphuch journey to nowhere. Like one of those cheap Caribbean carnival cruises, they just go to nice places but not really any substance.
Only now has the team begun its journey and your 10 games in and panicking that we need a trade.
Dude, we are so short into this your only going to make your self crazy......wait, Im talking to "Rainman1248"!
Ok, lets just calm down, go get some chocolate milk and think happy thoughts! Yes, we'll make a trade as soon as we can. Maybe we'll move Frank and a future pick for Steph curry. See, look how easy it was!!!! Yes, Steph will make it all good. Soon. Ok, just calm down.....There there...more milk? yummy right? Of course it is. That's right, Uncle Mills and Uncle Perry are on your side! Yes they are....

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

"right the ship".......You make the assumption it was on course and we must do something to put it correct. There was no course, no destination but a starphuch journey to nowhere. Like one of those cheap Caribbean carnival cruises, they just go to nice places but not really any substance.
Only now has the team begun its journey and your 10 games in and panicking that we need a trade.
Dude, we are so short into this your only going to make your self crazy......wait, Im talking to "Rainman1248"!
Ok, lets just calm down, go get some chocolate milk and think happy thoughts! Yes, we'll make a trade as soon as we can. Maybe we'll move Frank and a future pick for Steph curry. See, look how easy it was!!!! Yes, Steph will make it all good. Soon. Ok, just calm down.....There there...more milk? yummy right? Of course it is. That's right, Uncle Mills and Uncle Perry are on your side! Yes they are....

If you don't think our PG situation is a complete mess, and has been since Kidd retired, then your a drunk and you need to sober up.

First it was, he's just just 18, oh he's just 19, oh he's just 20, oh this only preseason, oh its only 10 games into the season, you see the trend.

He is soft and passive, burke is too small, and mudiay is as limted as it gets, yes if it was up to me i would trade all of them for someone who can do more than just one thing good, there are better players in the league then we have, and we dont have to be starphuck to uprade

I think Frank is going to be a good player. Never a big stats guy but a solid 2-way combo guard who contributes to a winning team with his versatility. It's obviously way too soon to make a decision on him, as he is younger than many rookies who were freshman last year. I think if we can get a star PG in free agency, we would do it no questions asked. Kyrie or Kemba for sure. High-level starters who aren't stars like Bledsoe or Rubio are where things get tricky. They make us better, but how much better? What i was hoping was we would pair Ntilikina with a strong backup PG who can offset his weaknesses as he develops. Burke and Mudiay are not that player unfortunately. Looking at free agency, i see guys like Elfrid Payton, Darron Collison, and Corey Joseph as guys who jump out. They are not sexy names, but they would bring a different element to the team. We need a playmaker, who doesn't hurt us too bad in other areas. Someone like Van Fleet would have been perfect. It's not the answer to anything, we just need a stopgap plan to help buy time and make us better until we know exactly what we have in Ntilikina, or we land a star guard in the meantime.

Chandler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

"right the ship".......You make the assumption it was on course and we must do something to put it correct. There was no course, no destination but a starphuch journey to nowhere. Like one of those cheap Caribbean carnival cruises, they just go to nice places but not really any substance.
Only now has the team begun its journey and your 10 games in and panicking that we need a trade.
Dude, we are so short into this your only going to make your self crazy......wait, Im talking to "Rainman1248"!
Ok, lets just calm down, go get some chocolate milk and think happy thoughts! Yes, we'll make a trade as soon as we can. Maybe we'll move Frank and a future pick for Steph curry. See, look how easy it was!!!! Yes, Steph will make it all good. Soon. Ok, just calm down.....There there...more milk? yummy right? Of course it is. That's right, Uncle Mills and Uncle Perry are on your side! Yes they are....

If you don't think our PG situation is a complete mess, and has been since Kidd retired, then your a drunk and you need to sober up.

First it was, he's just just 18, oh he's just 19, oh he's just 20, oh this only preseason, oh its only 10 games into the season, you see the trend.

He is soft and passive, burke is too small, and mudiay is as limted as it gets, yes if it was up to me i would trade all of them for someone who can do more than just one thing good, there are better players in the league then we have, and we dont have to be starphuck to uprade

Not trying to be a dick, but honestly you can look at probably every pg in the league and create a criticism from being a ball hog, to overpaid, to no D, to too old. I can't think of one above reproach

With Frank we can reasonably expect things to get better across the board, and his D (and contribution to winning basketball) is already good.

I'm more of an investor than a trader.

But there are other players better than them that we know are good, and are not hoping they can turn out to be good.

I more of a "go with what you know", as oppose to "lets hope it turns out good".

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

"right the ship".......You make the assumption it was on course and we must do something to put it correct. There was no course, no destination but a starphuch journey to nowhere. Like one of those cheap Caribbean carnival cruises, they just go to nice places but not really any substance.
Only now has the team begun its journey and your 10 games in and panicking that we need a trade.
Dude, we are so short into this your only going to make your self crazy......wait, Im talking to "Rainman1248"!
Ok, lets just calm down, go get some chocolate milk and think happy thoughts! Yes, we'll make a trade as soon as we can. Maybe we'll move Frank and a future pick for Steph curry. See, look how easy it was!!!! Yes, Steph will make it all good. Soon. Ok, just calm down.....There there...more milk? yummy right? Of course it is. That's right, Uncle Mills and Uncle Perry are on your side! Yes they are....

If you don't think our PG situation is a complete mess, and has been since Kidd retired, then your a drunk and you need to sober up.

First it was, he's just just 18, oh he's just 19, oh he's just 20, oh this only preseason, oh its only 10 games into the season, you see the trend.

He is soft and passive, burke is too small, and mudiay is as limted as it gets, yes if it was up to me i would trade all of them for someone who can do more than just one thing good, there are better players in the league then we have, and we dont have to be starphuck to uprade

Not trying to be a dick, but honestly you can look at probably every pg in the league and create a criticism from being a ball hog, to overpaid, to no D, to too old. I can't think of one above reproach

With Frank we can reasonably expect things to get better across the board, and his D (and contribution to winning basketball) is already good.

I'm more of an investor than a trader.

But there are other players better than them that we know are good, and are not hoping they can turn out to be good.

I more of a "go with what you know", as oppose to "lets hope it turns out good".

Agree that no one we have has shown to be a very good PG. Who do you recommned we get? So you think the FO is not aware?

HofstraBBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Chandler wrote:It could be the case that FIzzdale will be his own version of Brad Stevens, getting solid effort on D from everyone. And perhaps a little like Stevens a little unclear what exactly he wants to do, or can do, on offense

In which case the quick fix is a ball hog like Kyrie. (personally im against the quick fix)

My own hope is that we get some offensive brains on the bench akin to a Tex Winter. That will do us more good than a quick fix pg

Brad stevens quick fix pg was Isaiah Thomas (not bad uh) that got them Kyrie(even better uh)

You can sit there all day and try to develop a pg who may never get it, or you can do something about it and right the ship. If that means trading somebody, then do it, we need to get better at that position in the worse way.

"right the ship".......You make the assumption it was on course and we must do something to put it correct. There was no course, no destination but a starphuch journey to nowhere. Like one of those cheap Caribbean carnival cruises, they just go to nice places but not really any substance.
Only now has the team begun its journey and your 10 games in and panicking that we need a trade.
Dude, we are so short into this your only going to make your self crazy......wait, Im talking to "Rainman1248"!
Ok, lets just calm down, go get some chocolate milk and think happy thoughts! Yes, we'll make a trade as soon as we can. Maybe we'll move Frank and a future pick for Steph curry. See, look how easy it was!!!! Yes, Steph will make it all good. Soon. Ok, just calm down.....There there...more milk? yummy right? Of course it is. That's right, Uncle Mills and Uncle Perry are on your side! Yes they are....

If you don't think our PG situation is a complete mess, and has been since Kidd retired, then your a drunk and you need to sober up.

First it was, he's just just 18, oh he's just 19, oh he's just 20, oh this only preseason, oh its only 10 games into the season, you see the trend.

He is soft and passive, burke is too small, and mudiay is as limted as it gets, yes if it was up to me i would trade all of them for someone who can do more than just one thing good, there are better players in the league then we have, and we dont have to be starphuck to uprade

Not trying to be a dick, but honestly you can look at probably every pg in the league and create a criticism from being a ball hog, to overpaid, to no D, to too old. I can't think of one above reproach

With Frank we can reasonably expect things to get better across the board, and his D (and contribution to winning basketball) is already good.

I'm more of an investor than a trader.

But there are other players better than them that we know are good, and are not hoping they can turn out to be good.

I more of a "go with what you know", as oppose to "lets hope it turns out good".

Agree that no one we have has shown to be a very good PG. Who do you recommned we get? So you think the FO is not aware?

I can't really call it,the one thing for sure is it's going to take some sacrificing to do so(which all huge rewards do) I personally feel he is IDEAL for the spurs, and I would take there first rounder..

I just read a few scouting reports on frank (overseas and US scouts) and not one indicated that he can be a FUll time PG.

and like i have been saying since last season, he is a much better fit on a much more talented squad, where he is not the primarily ball handler or relied on to score.

Frank plays best when other scorers and playmakers are on the floor, not when you have mitch, noah, lance, and dotson on the floor.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Frank-Ntilikina-77051/

With his similar height and length (6'5" height, 6'10" wingspan), he was an all-defensive 1st teamer. With only 21.5mpg.
His key splits: 8.1ppg, 2.9apg, 5.7rpg, 1.2spg.

I thought Ntilikina was a better defensive player last year, but no hype, no hardware.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01.html

I'd like to see Kevin Durant as our PG of the future like others have stated. Ntilikina would do well in the role as our Derek Fisher of the future.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:and like i have been saying since last season, he is a much better fit on a much more talented squad, where he is not the primarily ball handler or relied on to score.

Frank plays best when other scorers and playmakers are on the floor, not when you have mitch, noah, lance, and dotson on the floor.

That's good and fine, and where your agenda begins to show.

NOBODY is suggesting Nitilikina is, will or should be an alpha dog lead scorer. But his ideal fit in the NBA isn't really the point in 2018-19, his 20-year old second season.

The idea is for the Knicks to become a much more talented squad in the future, where his skill set will fit better.

You seemingly want a guy who will fit better right now for a likely lottery and a unlikely postseason team, which is hard for many of us to understand.

Nitilikina is a long-term play, everyone understands that, besides you.

Did you read the scouting report, as youngster he played mostly off the ball, he has looked better playing off the ball. The only thing i have been saying about frank is that he's not a PG, I don't how that keeps turning into "i hate the kid", or i think he's trash. Phil Jackon labeled him a PG.

You ask me if I read the scouting reports. Google "2017 NBA mock draft." Look at any or ALL of them. He's universally listed as a PG, specifically.

This idea that him being labeled as a PG was purely by Phil Jackson after the fact is pure fiction.

But Frank is a pg as much as RON HARPER was in the triangle, Occasionally . Perhaps if we had a really good pg, franks development would be much better

You're welcome to your personal opinion. Other like myself are just noting that PG development can often take years AND you're wrong about what NBA evaluators besides Jackson see him as AND that his ideal fit in the NBA right now is beside the point.

Again, you're entitled to stake your ground that he'll NEVER be point guard enough to play point guard and the Knicks should give up on the idea now, but you don't have to make stuff up and raise irrelevant points to support that opinion.