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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/4/2018 12:40 PM LAST EDITED: 11/4/2018 12:48 PM
He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this season
If you look at his split for wins and losses his EFG% and TS% are about the same, but his Net Rtg shows a 36 point swing! When Timmy shows up on the defensive side which is currently around 1 out of every 3 games, and doesn't commit turnovers we have a good chance of winning. Given this I am still not very high on him, because he doesn't play defense consistently and doesn't play it well. https://stats.nba.com/player/203501/advanced/ He ranks 175 out of 196 Guards in the NBA in Defensive rating His Offensive Net Rtg is 77th out of 196 Guards, top of the middle third, Boobies has the best O-Rtg on the team among guards Does this make an above average player? You do the math I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/4/2018 1:54 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/4/2018 2:32 PM
Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. It's the way the world works. People make decisions based on data. Fans validate their "feelings" based on the eye test. Its the same argument as science vs. Religion, its reason vs. Faith based belief system. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/4/2018 3:56 PM LAST EDITED: 11/4/2018 3:59 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Not true. If that were the case why do teams spend so much money and time on scouting? Data is certainly part of the equation but if its just about numbers all of this would be very easy. I guarantee you there are players universally accepted as great who somebody can dig up some advanced metrics that says otherwise.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. There an old saying: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/4/2018 4:14 PM
Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Not true. If that were the case why do teams spend so much money and time on scouting? Data is certainly part of the equation but if its just about numbers all of this would be very easy. I guarantee you there are players universally accepted as great who somebody can dig up some advanced metrics that says otherwise.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. Statistics don't lie, people do. Teams scout to see if the play on field bears out the statistics. And stop acting like Net Rating is some obscure statistic no one has ever heard about. It's been the same for the last twenty years and no one has manipulated it to make THJR look bad. People use arguments like yours when they can't accept the data for what it is. Happens all the time. And teams that don't put a lot of weight on statistics make really poor decisions, you'll see one in action today against the Knicks. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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Welpee
Posts: 23162 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/22/2016 Member: #6239 |
11/4/2018 4:36 PM LAST EDITED: 11/4/2018 4:39 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:If what you're saying were true there would be a lot of fantasy hoops stars with NBA jobs.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Not true. If that were the case why do teams spend so much money and time on scouting? Data is certainly part of the equation but if its just about numbers all of this would be very easy. I guarantee you there are players universally accepted as great who somebody can dig up some advanced metrics that says otherwise.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. People reference stats for one player that supports what they believe and will conveniently ignore the same stat with the next player depending on whether it supports what they're trying to advance. |
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/4/2018 4:51 PM
Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:If what you're saying were true there would be a lot of fantasy hoops stars with NBA jobs.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Not true. If that were the case why do teams spend so much money and time on scouting? Data is certainly part of the equation but if its just about numbers all of this would be very easy. I guarantee you there are players universally accepted as great who somebody can dig up some advanced metrics that says otherwise.Welpee wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:He has Negative -6.38 Net Rtg for this seasonThe ole advanced stats card. You can always find some stats to support or disparage whoever you like or dislike. The NBA isn't exactly leading the world in embracing stats, that don't make stats bad. Fantasy sports are based on stats from the 1970s. So your theory doesn't actually hold, no fantasy basketball makes use of advanced stats. But most teams have stats people and the number is growing fast. I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/3/2014 Member: #5801 |
11/4/2018 9:29 PM
Juliano wrote:Stats are very efficient for half static sports like baseball or football, much less so imho for flow sports like basketball or soccer. In these sports, a player can have a major influence by clever positionning without it appearing on individual stats. He can distribute the ball very well but only make a handful of assists, he can cut passing lanes and disrupt or slow down the opposition's offense and it won't show up as well. Lots of people in France were criticizing Didier Deschamps for not being a charismatic soccer player as he hardly ever scored or assisted yet he was the first french captain to lift a european champions cup with his club in 93, the first to lift a World Cup in 98 and he added a european championship in 2000. He was clever, knew how to set the team up, a real captain on the pitch despite being on the low side of the skills spectrum. Oh, and he just won the world cup as headcoach last july : he's always had a great IQ for the game. No. Stats don't encourage players to play badly anymore than all star worship encourage them to shoot everytime they touch the ball. There are lots advanced stats that measure impact on the game and more are being developed. The NBA and fans have been extremely slow to adopt stats. Stats will eventually dominate every sport, but it has to overcome entrenched resistance from peeps like Barkley. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/06/nba-data-analytics/396776/ I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/5/2018 10:41 AM LAST EDITED: 11/5/2018 12:40 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:Juliano wrote:Stats are very efficient for half static sports like baseball or football, much less so imho for flow sports like basketball or soccer. In these sports, a player can have a major influence by clever positionning without it appearing on individual stats. He can distribute the ball very well but only make a handful of assists, he can cut passing lanes and disrupt or slow down the opposition's offense and it won't show up as well. Lots of people in France were criticizing Didier Deschamps for not being a charismatic soccer player as he hardly ever scored or assisted yet he was the first french captain to lift a european champions cup with his club in 93, the first to lift a World Cup in 98 and he added a european championship in 2000. He was clever, knew how to set the team up, a real captain on the pitch despite being on the low side of the skills spectrum. Oh, and he just won the world cup as headcoach last july : he's always had a great IQ for the game. Stats are for arm chair GM's who think they can judge a player just by crunching numbers on the computer. They just don't tell the whole story. Funny how you left out PIE? Which is viewed by most stat nerds as the most indicative overall stat? To Juliano's point: Some more stats: Reason why we lost last nights game....NO TiMMY!, did not help that Frank had 4 bricks in the 4th but we did not have someone that can make the shots Timmy can. Frank is a better defender than DSJ? You need hours looking up stats to reach that conclusion? Sure. DSJ is a very good offensive player. And in case your not watching, those are the ones needed in todays NBA. And something we needed last night when Frank came in and we were down 4. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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HofstraBBall
Posts: 27194 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 11/21/2015 Member: #6192 |
11/5/2018 2:21 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Juliano wrote:Stats are very efficient for half static sports like baseball or football, much less so imho for flow sports like basketball or soccer. In these sports, a player can have a major influence by clever positionning without it appearing on individual stats. He can distribute the ball very well but only make a handful of assists, he can cut passing lanes and disrupt or slow down the opposition's offense and it won't show up as well. Lots of people in France were criticizing Didier Deschamps for not being a charismatic soccer player as he hardly ever scored or assisted yet he was the first french captain to lift a european champions cup with his club in 93, the first to lift a World Cup in 98 and he added a european championship in 2000. He was clever, knew how to set the team up, a real captain on the pitch despite being on the low side of the skills spectrum. Oh, and he just won the world cup as headcoach last july : he's always had a great IQ for the game. 'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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