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Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard
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BigDaddyG
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11/5/2018  1:06 PM
Welpee wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Welpee wrote:Also didn't hurt that Jeremy Lin played for a coach notorious for making point guards look better than they really were. Ray Felton was a boardline all-star under D'Antoni. Steve Nash became a two time MVP. Friggin Chris Duhon had a 22 assist game under D'Antoni.

It's also interesting that Lin and Mudiay's stats are virtually identical four years into their careers. Yet, because of those 2 unexpected Linsanity weeks the perception of him has become blown way out of proportions.


In what regard? Lin's stats have been better across the board, even if you take out the "Linsanity" season. Mudiay has yet to put together a season that would even be considered decent.
Mudiay is in his 4th season. Compare his stats to Lin four years into his career:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jeremy+Lin&player_id1_select=Jeremy+Lin&player_id1=linje01&y1=2014&player_id2_hint=Emmanuel+Mudiay&player_id2_select=Emmanuel+Mudiay&y2=2019&player_id2=mudiaem01&idx=players

Not a lot of difference between the guy portrayed to have worked hard and was ready for his opportunity and the guy portrayed as being the opposite.


There is a difference if you look at fg%, Vorp, PER, BPM, Win Shares etc. The full picture shows onenguy who is a legitimate NBA rotation player and another guy who's substandard. The comparison isn't that close.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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Nalod
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11/5/2018  1:09 PM
Wall and Beal ate our boys up. Timmy’s back slowed him bad. Knicks were for sure the lessor team. Trier stood nice. Knicks not as good a team as Wiz last night.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
Welpee
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11/5/2018  3:05 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Welpee wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Welpee wrote:Also didn't hurt that Jeremy Lin played for a coach notorious for making point guards look better than they really were. Ray Felton was a boardline all-star under D'Antoni. Steve Nash became a two time MVP. Friggin Chris Duhon had a 22 assist game under D'Antoni.

It's also interesting that Lin and Mudiay's stats are virtually identical four years into their careers. Yet, because of those 2 unexpected Linsanity weeks the perception of him has become blown way out of proportions.


In what regard? Lin's stats have been better across the board, even if you take out the "Linsanity" season. Mudiay has yet to put together a season that would even be considered decent.
Mudiay is in his 4th season. Compare his stats to Lin four years into his career:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Jeremy+Lin&player_id1_select=Jeremy+Lin&player_id1=linje01&y1=2014&player_id2_hint=Emmanuel+Mudiay&player_id2_select=Emmanuel+Mudiay&y2=2019&player_id2=mudiaem01&idx=players

Not a lot of difference between the guy portrayed to have worked hard and was ready for his opportunity and the guy portrayed as being the opposite.


There is a difference if you look at fg%, Vorp, PER, BPM, Win Shares etc. The full picture shows onenguy who is a legitimate NBA rotation player and another guy who's substandard. The comparison isn't that close.
Actually if you look at the major stats they are comparable.
Nalod
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11/5/2018  3:36 PM
Lets see what mudiay looks after 20 more games.
You don't show a fool a job half done!
Knicksfan
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11/6/2018  2:39 AM
Nalod wrote:Lets see what mudiay looks after 20 more games.

After 20 games, we might find ourselves in the same place: wondering if one of our four guards will take a claim to the keys of the starting PG spot. Right now, it seems to be hot potato.

Well, at least that beats having Eisley or Duhon as starters...

Knicks_Fan
BigDaddyG
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11/6/2018  3:01 AM
Knicksfan wrote:
Nalod wrote:Lets see what mudiay looks after 20 more games.

After 20 games, we might find ourselves in the same place: wondering if one of our four guards will take a claim to the keys of the starting PG spot. Right now, it seems to be hot potato.

Well, at least that beats having Eisley or Duhon as starters...


Man...for some reason I thought Eisley and Duhon were one and the same lol I guess the alcohol did the trick during those dark days.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
meloshouldgo
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11/6/2018  7:15 AM
I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Jmpasq
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11/6/2018  7:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2018  8:10 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?

15? How about 10. Frank has broken 10 twice this year. How about assists. Are Knicks fans wrong for wanting a PG that generates offense

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nykshaknbake
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11/6/2018  7:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/6/2018  7:28 PM
At this point in time we don't yet have a starting caliber point guard. Burke has taken a step back and he looks like he's on the outs with Fiz. I definitely don't trust Mudiay yet though he's had a few good games. Frank is shooting a little more, but really hasn't improved a lick in the offseason. He still is solely a defensive specialist.
CrushAlot
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11/6/2018  8:01 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?

15? How about 10. Frank has broken 10 twice this year. How about assists. Are Knicks fans wrong for wanting a of that generates offense

this. Frank is averaging 4 puts a game for his last four games. I am not sure what shouldgo gets but the Knicks need more from the point guard spot.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Jmpasq
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11/6/2018  8:50 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:At this point in time we don't yet have a starting caliber point guard. Burke has taken a step back and he looks like he's on the outs with Fiz. I definitely don't trust Mudiay yet though he's had a few good games. Frank is shooting a little more, but really hasn't improved a lick in the offseason. He still is solely a defensive specialist.

Just give Frank the year. If there isn't significant improvement go after a PG in the draft or FA. We can always move Frank to the bench. He can be the new Lance Thomas

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meloshouldgo
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11/6/2018  9:16 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?

15? How about 10. Frank has broken 10 twice this year. How about assists. Are Knicks fans wrong for wanting a PG that generates offense

I was posing the question about what they want not prescribing what they should, Also interested in what Fiz wants. And were you happy with the Derrick Rose team where he was generating offense?

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
nykshaknbake
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11/7/2018  12:02 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?

15? How about 10. Frank has broken 10 twice this year. How about assists. Are Knicks fans wrong for wanting a PG that generates offense

I was posing the question about what they want not prescribing what they should, Also interested in what Fiz wants. And were you happy with the Derrick Rose team where he was generating offense?


Strawman argument, as usual. Nobody is advocating for washed up non MVP Derrick Rose. Knick fans want someone who can run the offense and not a completely one dimensional player, be it on offense or defense. That said a PG primary responsability is offense and that doesn't mean calling his number all the time ala Derrick Rose when he was here.
SupremeCommander
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11/14/2018  1:41 PM
would love to hear why Mudiay doesn't deserve a chance to start now
Nalod said: You had me at the first sentence. Then you asked us to be your emotional tampon.
franco12
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11/14/2018  2:17 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:would love to hear why Mudiay doesn't deserve a chance to start now

It's tough - we have so many guys that are ok, but none that have it all or are that much better.

Frank could probably use some time in the G League.

I'd like to see Mudiay and Burke together in the back court, maybe THjr as the 3. And maybe Knox & Kanter as the starters up front.

Then Trier and Robinson off the bench, with Mario also rounding out the 8.

knicks1248
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11/14/2018  2:54 PM
franco12 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:would love to hear why Mudiay doesn't deserve a chance to start now

It's tough - we have so many guys that are ok, but none that have it all or are that much better.

Frank could probably use some time in the G League.

I'd like to see Mudiay and Burke together in the back court, maybe THjr as the 3. And maybe Knox & Kanter as the starters up front.

Then Trier and Robinson off the bench, with Mario also rounding out the 8.

According to a handful of posters, they have no idea why that would help, they think it's an absolute waist of time, and would prefer to see him crash and burn in the NBA until he gets it. They think that would build his confidence

ES
SupremeCommander
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11/14/2018  3:53 PM
franco12 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:would love to hear why Mudiay doesn't deserve a chance to start now

It's tough - we have so many guys that are ok, but none that have it all or are that much better.

Frank could probably use some time in the G League.

I'd like to see Mudiay and Burke together in the back court, maybe THjr as the 3. And maybe Knox & Kanter as the starters up front.

Then Trier and Robinson off the bench, with Mario also rounding out the 8.

really agree with the first part of this... considering that we are so flawed and unfinished I do think the prudent measure is extract value wherever possible

Nalod said: You had me at the first sentence. Then you asked us to be your emotional tampon.
arkrud
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11/14/2018  4:56 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
franco12 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:would love to hear why Mudiay doesn't deserve a chance to start now

It's tough - we have so many guys that are ok, but none that have it all or are that much better.

Frank could probably use some time in the G League.

I'd like to see Mudiay and Burke together in the back court, maybe THjr as the 3. And maybe Knox & Kanter as the starters up front.

Then Trier and Robinson off the bench, with Mario also rounding out the 8.

According to a handful of posters, they have no idea why that would help, they think it's an absolute waist of time, and would prefer to see him crash and burn in the NBA until he gets it. They think that would build his confidence

Sending him to G-league will build his confidence for sure...
Look at Timmy. He became really confident after his GL stint.
Shooting at everything that moves...

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
meloshouldgo
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11/14/2018  7:18 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I think we know the expectations Fiz sets for Trier, but we are not being told the expectations he sets for the other three. What are their assignments in running the offense? Do they need to score X number of points, get Y number of assists, steals? What are their defensive assignments? I get it that fans here can't or won't accept a point guard who doesn't score 15pts a game a drive to the basket every time, then again we had Derrick Rose with his all star credentials running the offense with that other all time scoring champ and we still managed to win 31 total games.
So what are ideologie looking for? And what is Fiz looking for?

15? How about 10. Frank has broken 10 twice this year. How about assists. Are Knicks fans wrong for wanting a PG that generates offense

I was posing the question about what they want not prescribing what they should, Also interested in what Fiz wants. And were you happy with the Derrick Rose team where he was generating offense?


Strawman argument, as usual. Nobody is advocating for washed up non MVP Derrick Rose. Knick fans want someone who can run the offense and not a completely one dimensional player, be it on offense or defense. That said a PG primary responsability is offense and that doesn't mean calling his number all the time ala Derrick Rose when he was here.

I think you should look up straw man argument, among other things. I already clarified that I wasn't making an argument to what he posted, I was asking a question. You lost me at PG's primary responsibility is offense, then again you never had me at any level.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Fiz, Mudiay will eventually get a chance to start at point guard

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