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ode to Enes
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Welpee
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11/7/2018  12:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/7/2018  12:51 PM
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

Yep. Or you could play him and enhance his trade value to unload him before the deadline.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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11/7/2018  4:01 PM
Welpee wrote:
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

Yep. Or you could play him and enhance his trade value to unload him before the deadline.

Teams know him. Playing him or not is no secret. Its not like we have to shine him up.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
fishmike
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11/7/2018  4:05 PM
look at the guys around the league who signed for pennies. Lopez, Vonleh, KOQ, McGee, etc.... I cant think of a worse use of money than to give Enes big bucks. He's at best a MLE player on the open market and likely a depth backup player.
arkrud
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11/7/2018  6:00 PM
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

Yep. Or you could play him and enhance his trade value to unload him before the deadline.

Teams know him. Playing him or not is no secret. Its not like we have to shine him up.

Kanter and Lee are very well known commodities.
Unfortunately in good and in bad sense.
Thinking that NBA teams are not well aware on all stats and eye tests for every player they want to add to the roster is naive.
No doubt the use cases are possible. But we need some luck to get what we need for this kind of assets with limited use.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
BigDaddyG
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11/7/2018  6:33 PM
Nalod wrote:
Welpee wrote:
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

Yep. Or you could play him and enhance his trade value to unload him before the deadline.

Teams know him. Playing him or not is no secret. Its not like we have to shine him up.


I thought we were playing him? He's getting enough minutes to show what he can do.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
CrushAlot
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11/7/2018  6:57 PM
Welpee wrote:
arkrud wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:Enes puts up good stats on losing games. What else do I need to know? Is he part of the future? I don't think so.
Is he tradable? Are other teams lining up for him? Even with an expiring?
I like the guy. I dig his effort.

Interesting point about the future. Problem some miss about the "Future" is that it may only apply to a couple of years from now. Specially in the NBA. So yes, think Kanter should be part of the future, if resigned for a reasonable price. If we are talking past two years from now, think you can make a case that every player on the roster can be questioned as a valid piece for the future. Unless most think we should bank our long term future on unproven 19 year olds. Think when you have guys like Kanter, probably the only real pro on floor last night, fans are quick to toss them aside for some other unreal possibility or young gamble. Cant think of better options that may be available at the 5? Not saying Kanter is the next Ewing but the kid has post talent and can rebound his ass off. Something I remember Knick fans saying we needed before he arrived.

The price is the key. What is it?
And this is to be determined by the market.
So there is nothing to worry about.
If Kanter will get offer we cannot beat because of money needed for perspective FA signing he is gone.
If market will be soft he may stay.
He can also decide to leave if some bad team will promise him to start. But this is a tricky business.
Probability is high that he will not be around next season so why take minutes away for those who will be and need to develop?
Enes know the drill already so it is up to him and his agent to make a decision.

Yep. Or you could play him and enhance his trade value to unload him before the deadline.
I think they want to keep him to have his salary come off the books. Durant to NY rumors are similar to LBJ to LA last year. I think the Knicks need to keep the option of signing him open if he actually wants to come to NY.
You playTrey Burke... Wally Szcerbiak
Welpee
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11/7/2018  7:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/7/2018  7:35 PM
I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
fishmike
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11/8/2018  9:56 AM
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute
Nalod
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11/8/2018  1:41 PM
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.

He loves a new contract! Lets not kid ourselves, we can sign a KD THEN him. Players most frequently always say good things about teams that hold their bird rights. I got nothing bad to say about this kid and would like for him to stay.
But......
There is Mitchell Robinson's potential. IF its legit you have to run with that potential.
He is not a franchise talent. I know this because he has good games and we lose. Its not him. He is good. The tangibles don't add up. The stat line is good, its just not enough.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knickoftime
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11/8/2018  2:25 PM
Nalod wrote:He loves a new contract! Lets not kid ourselves, we can sign a KD THEN him.

Can...

Should?

IF the Knicks use their cap space on one big outside free agent (whoever it may be), unless they trade Hardaway, it's probably going to be free agent + ONE of Kanter, Vonleh or Trier.

Choose.

knicks1248
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11/8/2018  2:39 PM
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

ES
Knickoftime
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11/8/2018  2:44 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Do you think he's a good defensive player?

arkrud
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11/8/2018  2:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2018  2:55 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

You need to encourage people when they start trying so they will hopefully continue.
Kanter helped Frank a lot on Young in first half on PNR defense so it is some good start.
He was bad-awful on boxing out Plum in the second... but its one thing at a time...

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
knicks1248
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11/8/2018  3:07 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Do you think he's a good defensive player?

Not really, but he's not as bad as say Amare or melo..

The guy is really good at 2 things, rebounding and is a beast in the post. Towns just got 200 million and he is one of the laziest defenders in the league.

There's so few really good individual defenders in this league, the ones that are, they're pretty limited offensively. Thats why A lot of times you'll see coaches sub in for defense/offense.

This idea that your going to get this player that dominates on both ends is really far fetched and very rare.

ES
StarksEwing1
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11/8/2018  3:27 PM
arkrud wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

You need to encourage people when they start trying so they will hopefully continue.
Kanter helped Frank a lot on Young in first half on PNR defense so it is some good start.
He was bad-awful on boxing out Plum in the second... but its one thing at a time...

Plus I think there is a lot of mutual respect between Frank and Kanter. Last Year Kanter really stepped up and defended him when Lebron was taking some jabs at us not drafting DSJ. I think Frank was returning the favor in a way because he knows Kanter does a lot of good things even if he struggles on defense
Nalod
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11/8/2018  4:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Answer: We won the game.

Knicks1248: 1. Dolan should be more involved! 2. Why would any knick fan want pick 8, when that spot has a history of producing marginal NBA taken. (He prefers pick 9th instead)
Knickoftime
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11/8/2018  4:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/8/2018  4:40 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Do you think he's a good defensive player?

Not really, but he's not as bad as say Amare or melo..

I don't see the relevance of that.

The guy is really good at 2 things, rebounding and is a beast in the post. Towns just got 200 million and he is one of the laziest defenders in the league.

Towns is also irrelevant.

I think there is evidence enough to suggest part of Kanter's rebounding prowess is giving up on defensive plays to get in position for the rebound.

He has anemic block numbers for a pretty tall, pretty mobile guy.

There's so few really good individual defenders in this league, the ones that are, they're pretty limited offensively. Thats why A lot of times you'll see coaches sub in for defense/offense.

This idea that your going to get this player that dominates on both ends is really far fetched and very rare.

That's fair enough but he happens to play the one position where perhaps giving up the defense for offense is most problematic.

As of a few days ago, the difference between the Knicks defense per 100 possessions with him on the floor and off was stark. Knicks now have two guys on the roster who can be rim protectors (which he's the antithesis of) and score. Robinson is all projection right now, but it's a projection year.

Kanter does two things really well. He's just awful at the most important thing a center needs to do.

No one is calling for his release, he just doesn't have a seat at the table in the future.

Not much wrong with that.

arkrud
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11/9/2018  2:26 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Do you think he's a good defensive player?

Not really, but he's not as bad as say Amare or melo..

I don't see the relevance of that.

The guy is really good at 2 things, rebounding and is a beast in the post. Towns just got 200 million and he is one of the laziest defenders in the league.

Towns is also irrelevant.

I think there is evidence enough to suggest part of Kanter's rebounding prowess is giving up on defensive plays to get in position for the rebound.

He has anemic block numbers for a pretty tall, pretty mobile guy.

There's so few really good individual defenders in this league, the ones that are, they're pretty limited offensively. Thats why A lot of times you'll see coaches sub in for defense/offense.

This idea that your going to get this player that dominates on both ends is really far fetched and very rare.

That's fair enough but he happens to play the one position where perhaps giving up the defense for offense is most problematic.

As of a few days ago, the difference between the Knicks defense per 100 possessions with him on the floor and off was stark. Knicks now have two guys on the roster who can be rim protectors (which he's the antithesis of) and score. Robinson is all projection right now, but it's a projection year.

Kanter does two things really well. He's just awful at the most important thing a center needs to do.

No one is calling for his release, he just doesn't have a seat at the table in the future.

Not much wrong with that.

Good video-session to illustrate what Kanter really is:
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/11/9/18074608/how-they-drew-it-up-enes-kanter-edition

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
Knickoftime
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11/9/2018  2:34 PM
arkrud wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Welpee wrote:I can't think of another player putting up 15.3 ppg, 11.7 reb, 2.5 assists, 87% ft, 54% fg who loves his city, loves his team and doesn't get into trouble on/off the court who gets as little love as Kanter does.
cause we dont win games and he doesnt play defense. I would LOVE to have him back on a MLE type deal. He's a great backup. If I had to chose I would take Voneleh over Kanter in a NY minute

Why was Fiz praising his defense effort last night.

Do you think he's a good defensive player?

Not really, but he's not as bad as say Amare or melo..

I don't see the relevance of that.

The guy is really good at 2 things, rebounding and is a beast in the post. Towns just got 200 million and he is one of the laziest defenders in the league.

Towns is also irrelevant.

I think there is evidence enough to suggest part of Kanter's rebounding prowess is giving up on defensive plays to get in position for the rebound.

He has anemic block numbers for a pretty tall, pretty mobile guy.

There's so few really good individual defenders in this league, the ones that are, they're pretty limited offensively. Thats why A lot of times you'll see coaches sub in for defense/offense.

This idea that your going to get this player that dominates on both ends is really far fetched and very rare.

That's fair enough but he happens to play the one position where perhaps giving up the defense for offense is most problematic.

As of a few days ago, the difference between the Knicks defense per 100 possessions with him on the floor and off was stark. Knicks now have two guys on the roster who can be rim protectors (which he's the antithesis of) and score. Robinson is all projection right now, but it's a projection year.

Kanter does two things really well. He's just awful at the most important thing a center needs to do.

No one is calling for his release, he just doesn't have a seat at the table in the future.

Not much wrong with that.

Good video-session to illustrate what Kanter really is:
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/11/9/18074608/how-they-drew-it-up-enes-kanter-edition

Yup...

https://streamable.com/s/dk9v2/oqdwia

Ouch.

Watch him box out Hezonja.

martin
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11/11/2018  5:18 PM
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